Shooting Order Questions

[Red Hooker]

I shoot double duelist. When possible, I shoot my left gun from the left, and the right gun from the right. I have a couple of questions about shooting order and stage directions.

 

First, if a stage with five pistol targets calls for two sweeps, but no double taps, is it a double tap if the two shots are from different guns? That is, is the last left-to-right shot, out of the left gun, and the first right-to-left shot, out of the right gun, a double tap?

 

Second: If a stage direction says, "Do such-and-such a sweep from the first pistol. Second pistol, repeat", does that mean repeat exactly, including direction, or just repeat "Do such-and-such a sweep",regardless of direction?

[Mack Hacker, #60477]

Yes

 

yes

[Blastmaster]

I shoot double duelist. When possible, I shoot my left gun from the left, and the right gun from the right. I have a couple of questions about shooting order and stage directions.

 

First, if a stage with five pistol targets calls for two sweeps, but no double taps, is it a double tap if the two shots are from different guns? That is, is the last left-to-right shot, out of the left gun, and the first right-to-left shot, out of the right gun, a double tap?

 

Second: If a stage direction says, "Do such-and-such a sweep from the first pistol. Second pistol, repeat", does that mean repeat exactly, including direction, or just repeat "Do such-and-such a sweep",regardless of direction?

 

 

You have to shoot the sequence just like everyone else.

 

If it says two sweeps with no double tap, then you can not hit the last target with the last round of first pistol and the first shot of the second pistol.

 

 

Second question: I have seen your description interpeted both ways, but to play it safe (without asking) then shoot the second pistol in the same order and starting on the same end as what you did with the first pistol. Always OK to ask the RO if you can switch direction with second pistol.

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

I shoot double duelist. When possible, I shoot my left gun from the left, and the right gun from the right. I have a couple of questions about shooting order and stage directions.

 

First, if a stage with five pistol targets calls for two sweeps, but no double taps, is it a double tap if the two shots are from different guns? That is, is the last left-to-right shot, out of the left gun, and the first right-to-left shot, out of the right gun, a double tap?

 

Second: If a stage direction says, "Do such-and-such a sweep from the first pistol. Second pistol, repeat", does that mean repeat exactly, including direction, or just repeat "Do such-and-such a sweep",regardless of direction?

Duelist and gunfighters have to shoot in exactly the same order as all other shooters. No double taps means no double taps. On second question, I always ask, because different posses and match directors mean different things here.

[Patagonia Pete]

I shoot double duelist. When possible, I shoot my left gun from the left, and the right gun from the right. I have a couple of questions about shooting order and stage directions.

 

First, if a stage with five pistol targets calls for two sweeps, but no double taps, is it a double tap if the two shots are from different guns? That is, is the last left-to-right shot, out of the left gun, and the first right-to-left shot, out of the right gun, a double tap?

 

Second: If a stage direction says, "Do such-and-such a sweep from the first pistol. Second pistol, repeat", does that mean repeat exactly, including direction, or just repeat "Do such-and-such a sweep",regardless of direction?

 

- Two shots in a row on the same target is a double tap … (no matter if you split it between your two pistols/revolvers or do it with one).

 

You see the “no double tap” instruction often in sweep scenarios … as it is a convenient way to tell the shooter to sweep in the same direction. IE … “Starting on either end sweep P1-P5 twice … no double taps!” (they are giving you the option to sweep in either direction while insuring you do it both times in the same direction)

 

- The repeat instruction can be a real headache and cause a lot of unnecessary delay/discussion/arguments when the “initial” instruction allows for a variable solution.

 

IE. “With pistols sweep P1-P5 (once each) in that order then repeat for a total of 10 rounds”. In this case … no worry … the first set had only one solution … so saying “repeat” could not possibly have any other meaning.

 

However …

 

IE. “With pistols engage P1-P5 once each in any order … repeat for a total of 10 rounds”. In this case as soon as you start shooting the second set of 5 someone may want to call a “P” on you if don’t execute the second string exactly the same as the first.

 

When you have a variable solution for the first set like this one … it is a lot easier on everyone if the stage writer will specify by saying something like … “repeat the instruction” … “first and second set of 5 need not be identical” … “first and second set of 5 must be identical” … whatever!! They just need to say what they want when the instruction allows for a variable solution for the first set of a “repeat” instruction.

 

The “repeat” “is always the identical shooting string as the first” may seem to make sense in most cases and many may feel it needs no additional qualification but when the first set is something like “outside-oustide-inside-inside-center” or “1 round on each target in any order” and that sort of thing … then it becomes apparent something more is needed (as it is likely neither the shooter or the spotters will remember what the first string looked like). Asking the RO on "your" posse to decide might not get you the same instruction that people on other posses got to shoot and that's not fair. Little effort for the stage writer ... big bennies in the happy shooter department.

 

IMHO anyhow …

 

My apologies for repeating what others may have already explained ...

 

Pete

[Red Hooker]

Not trying to be a gamer. I thought the point of the "no double tap" rule was to eliminate an unfair advantage gained by the double-tapper who gains a fraction of a second by not moving to the other target. If I have to holster, then draw the other gun, I ain't gainin' anything.

[August West, SASS #45079]

Not trying to be a gamer. I thought the point of the "no double tap" rule was to eliminate an unfair advantage gained by the double-tapper who gains a fraction of a second by not moving to the other target. If I have to holster, then draw the other gun, I ain't gainin' anything.

 

You're also not losing anything to repeat it exactly as the first. Don't give the gunfighters anything to gripe about.

[Grizzly Dave]

Applying 'no double tap' in a stage makes it so that all shooters shoot it the same way, even though they may holster in between 5 shot strings. Without it, gunfighters could double tap and gain time, where other styles would have a holster and draw in between a 'double tap'. Aloowing it for some and not others would be a hasstle to spot for.

 

It's all up to the stage writer, it's fun to do both ways.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Not trying to be a gamer. I thought the point of the "no double tap" rule was to eliminate an unfair advantage gained by the double-tapper who gains a fraction of a second by not moving to the other target. If I have to holster, then draw the other gun, I ain't gainin' anything.

 

Doesn't matter if the "taps" occur before and after a revolver switch or not. Still a double tap. Doesn't matter if you didn't gain any advantage. That is not how our rules are written. (What if the stage instruction stated: "shoot it anyway you want as long as you don't get some advantage out of it".... . We'd be arguing all day.)

 

Why do stage writers write it this way?

1) If you could double tap, you could change direction of the second sweep, and gain time. Most folks shoot faster if they don't have to swing all the way back to the beginning target to start the second sweep.

2) This keeps the stage instruction simple, and applied the same way if doing either a rifle sequence or 2-revolver sequence. It would be hard to explain to new shooters that you can "double tap when you change revolvers" but not if you are shooting rounds from a single revolver or from your rifle. Ouch.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062]

You're also not losing anything to repeat it exactly as the first. Don't give the gunfighters anything to gripe about.

 

 

.... yeah, ... us Gunfightererers like gripin' about this stuff ....

[Max Montana, SASS #23907]

Two handed shooters, sometimes called "squawgrippers" must shoot the stage in the same manner as a duelist or a gunfighter. Back to back shots impacting the same target constitutes a double tap. Under "no double tap" instructions the two handed shooter cannot strike the same target with the fifth shot of the first pistol and the first shot of the second pistol. The purpose for this instruction is because the stage writer didn't want the shooter to shoot the same target twice in a row.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

Second: If a stage direction says, "Do such-and-such a sweep from the first pistol. Second pistol, repeat", does that mean repeat exactly, including direction, or just repeat "Do such-and-such a sweep",regardless of direction?

 

 

The repeat instruction can be a real headache and cause a lot of unnecessary delay/discussion/arguments when the "initial" instruction allows for a variable solution.

 

If a stage writer insists on using the word repeat.

The simple addition of "Sequence" or "Instruction" should always follow.

For instance, a direction to shoot outside - outside - inside - inside - middle. Repeat.

Repeat the sequence tells me, the second five shots have to repeat the sequence of the first five.

i.e. 1-5-2-4-3 has to be followed by 1-5-2-4-3.

Repeat the instruction tells me that

1-5-2-4-3 could be followed by 5-1-4-2-3.

 

For some unknown reason, stage writers have begun a shooting range version of "Name that tune"

"I can write a stage in 22 words"

"I can write a stage in 21 words"

"Well, I can write a stage in 18 words"

"Ok, then write that stage"

While brevity may be the soul of wit - brevity to the point of omission is the enemy of good stage writing.