Ace_of_Hearts Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 I will restate what I said in an earlier post, if you assert that because the TO could see the decock then the shooter was under 'direct supervision' then by that logic a TO can never call an SDQ for decocking. Because if he was able to see it to call it, then the shooter was 'under direct supervision' I think we are waiting for a determination of the term "Direct Supervision". For if normal TO watchfulness is "Direct Supervision" then the penalty for decocking cannot be called. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 SEE POST #96 for step-by-step "playback" (from the T/O?) I know this will not help much but I will offer the veiw of the T.O.. The last firearm of the stage was the SG. There were four targets to be knocked down. The shooter only had to fire three rounds due to a good shot taking down two at once. The shooter had all ready loaded the fourth round as he realized the fourth KD had fallen. As the T.O. looked down range to see why the shooter was not shooting the fourth round the shooter had began the decocking process. The T.O. started to instruct shooter to eject round but realized it was too late and couldn't stop shooter in time. The T.O. asked shooter why he did not push button on side to eject round. The answer was I did not know I could that. The T.O. gave the SDQ penelty followed by showing the shooter ROI book, page 16 sec 7. pdf on mobile device. Apparently the T/O was NOT "directly supervising" the shooter when he DE-COCKED the shotgun. (he was looking downrange at the targets). As with many (most) Wire WtC? questions...additional input can sometimes change the results. As previously ADVISED..."Trust, but verify"...either by verbal means or, at least, by making eye contact. Whether "direct supervision" MUST be confirmed verbally (ask or inform) is the question at the moment. Will report back once I get a firm consensus from the ROC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Your a good man PWB. thanks for all your hard work. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 delete Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Hi Don, Amen to your take on supervision and desirable TO behavior. The last seven years I worked, I had a supervisor. All but one was smart enough to know I could do my job without "direct supervision." Regards, Allie Mo PS I'm going to TRY to stay away from posting until PWB reports back. AM and others. From time to time I assist in teaching and coaching an NRA Basic Pistol Course to shooters who may be seeking their CCW permit. When it comes to the practical shooting portion on the range with real guns and real bullets, each student is paired with an instructor/coach that gives them 'direct' supervision on each aspect of the lesson given. Since we do not know the level of compency (sp) of each student, and the degree of potential danger within the area with so many firearms, 'DIRECT' 'Supervision' is a darn good idea. When I say 'direct' I mean the coach darn well knows what his one and only student is doing or is going to do. As the class proceeeds, and the student gets better, and the trust builds somewhat between the student/coach the reins are loosend up a bit, but still, the coach is in charge. If student does something not considered safe, they are quickly corrected by direct supervision of the coach. If something out of the ordinary happens, such as a ceasefire, the student will be directed to bring the firearm back to a safe ready rest position and wait for further directions. Now, all the coaches are supervised by the Range Master who's responsibility is the entire range and gives instuctions to the coaches for the next exercise. So in one case, the coach is focused (direct supervising )on one shooter and his action and on the other, several coaches are just supervised by the Range Master who assures the course of fire is on tract and everyone is doing the same thing. ROing one cowboy shooter is very similar to coaching at this class. My concentration is on that shooter and what he is doing or looks like what he is going to do. There is a fairly routing pattern of a shooter staging his guns, shooting the course and picking up long guns so of course, you do not have to verbally spell out each step and tell them, unless they have a senior moment. This is a simplistic explanation and example of what I consider supervision and direct supervision. Key word is "direct" Now we wait for PWB. Blastmaster Edit: I wonder why I have even posted so many times on this thread because I can not remember an incident concerning a shooter needing to decock a firearm on the line. It seems the sxs shooters are the ones that have to remmove a live round after hitting all the SG targets and that is easy to do. The pump SG shooters cycle their actions much slower and the target has basically gone down before they can get the next round in and action closed. Conclusion for me is, it isn;t a big deal. Carry on, it is entertaining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Too Tall, SASS #36690 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Since I was involved in this incident, the tall TO was looking almost down my right shoulder (I am a small right handed shooter) where he could watch both the working of the shotgun and the targets fall. Maybe this will clear up any confusion of being under direct supervision. ...Too Tall... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Since I was involved in this incident, the tall TO was looking almost down my right shoulder (I am a small right handed shooter) where he could watch both the working of the shotgun and the targets fall. Maybe this will clear up any confusion of being under direct supervision. ...Too Tall... Pard, I've said my piece and will not change my mind. So, I sent you a PM. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 25, 2011 Share Posted October 25, 2011 Yo, DAWG! Are you saying that some genius is saving money building a pump shotgun in these litigious times that can't be safely opened with a live round in the chamber? REALLY? Ok... I haven't seen them all.. only about 2-3k of them... but just in case that's true? DO NOT BUY ONE OF THESE Well...I kinda need one to participate in WB...plus I need a SG back up to my Stoeger.... Like PWB says "Best practice would be for the shooter to know how to operate his equipment." Thankfully the one I have on layaway is a genuine Winchester so it has the 'button'. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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