Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 At a recent match I placed in a respectable position overall in my opinion. I realized later that all the folks who placed ahead of me, (in several different categories), were shooting 38s. This made me wonder. All things being the same, will a smallbore shooter typically be faster than a big-bore shooter? Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trailrider #896 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Howdy, Pard, I suppose that cumulative recoil recovery time MIGHT be a factor. But I doubt seriously it amounts to that much the way the bigger caliber shooters reduce their loads down to next to nothing. Most likely, it is a matter of practice, practice and practice. Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America! Your Pard, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quick Draw Granpaw #48525 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 At a recent match I placed in a respectable position overall in my opinion. I realized later that all the folks who placed ahead of me, (in several different categories), were shooting 38s. This made me wonder. All things being the same, will a smallbore shooter typically be faster than a big-bore shooter? Fillmore I shoot both 38/125 and 44/165 and it seems to make no difference which I shoot the Barn keeps moving! I do know for a fact it cost more to shoot the .44, but I do get a bigger kick out of the .44's! Happy trails, keep the wind at your back and don't fall out of the saddle and above all keep the wife happy or no more posse's for you! Quick Draw Grandpaw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I sure hope all my friends shooting 45s keep shooting them. I will continue to shoot my 38s with 105 g bullets whenever possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 No. Ask Tex Fiddler...ask Bud about him shooting EOT with a 44-40... It's not the size of z hole that really matters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Lefty Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 a 38 is way cheaper to shoot and that can be a factor in this game. If you are like me and "Practice" is the match then it won't make a difference! In the end as long as you are having fun it is all good! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 At a recent match I placed in a respectable position overall in my opinion. I realized later that all the folks who placed ahead of me, (in several different categories), were shooting 38s. This made me wonder. All things being the same, will a smallbore shooter typically be faster than a big-bore shooter? Fillmore NO. T-Bone shoots .45's, Duelist style and a hammered SG. He not only wins his category all the time. But many times is in the running for overall or right around the top shooters overall. Phantom already mentioned Badlands Bud. Who won stages at EOT with the 44-40's a few years ago. If you are good. You are just good. If your not??? Well??? I know how you feel. But they have proven you can win shooting the big bore. I shoot .38's because the brass and the bullets are cheaper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I was at a State Match where both the Men's and Women's Top Overall shot .45's Of course, Marshal Harland Wolff has been known to shoot, practice and shoot, practice, and shoot, practice some more... That might have a tad to do with it. Duc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 It doesn't seem to affect me one way or the other. When I shoot .32-20's, I am no slower or faster than when I shoot .45's Nor does matching my very low power .38 S&W's in converted 58 Remmies with a .44-40 Henry seem to affect my speed all that much. Now, when I use my Lightning rifle, I am a *little* faster with that than with a lever gun, but that has nothing to do with the caliber. I will say though that shooting .44 Special slows me down. But, that might because pistol 1 is a 12" Colt Buntline and the rifle is a 92 Winchseter with a John Wayne loop. But that's jsut a guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Howdy Fillmore, I don't know the exact answer to your question. But, I've seen 12 gauge SG's run alot faster than 20 ga. and .410's If you gave me identical setup pistols in both .38 and .45 (of which I do have except the .45's are lighter.....Rugers) I doubt on any given day I could tell any difference in speed assuming both were moderately loaded within their caliber standards. But I must also say that if you gave me a lightly loaded .38 and a 'thunder boomer' in .45, I think my .38 might be alittle quicker in a speed shoot. BUT, based on recovery time and movement between targets that we use in CAS, I doubt I could tell much difference in either pistol. And quiet frankly, I shoot my .38's about 70% of the time and my .45's the rest of the time. I've never really noticed any difference because I have loaded my rounds to be moderate within SASS guidelines. Of course, I also practice alittle. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Phantom beat me to the answer but it bears repeating. Ask Bud if shooting .44-40s at his last EOT victory caused him to be slower. Or ask Tex Fiddler if his .45s helped or hurt him when he took 1st in Silver Senior (over Evil Roy BTW, shooting......wait for it.....38s) at the last EOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Texas Jack Black Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 NO ADVANTAGE T J B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 38's?? What are those? GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 16, 2011 Author Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ok. Sure Bud can win EOT with 44s, T-Bone can win with a hammered double, and sure Duece can win using box stock guns but, can 38 FanTum beat 45 Fantum? Can 45 IROT beat 38 IROT? How about some empirical evidence from shooters who have done some research on the subject. Thanks. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 38's?? What are those? GG ~ Two answers: 1. its what Lucy was in High School. 2. its a pistol/rifle caliber to some of us who can't afford to buy alot of the bigger bore stuff and practice. Its a caliber used by some of us who are either/both poor and cheap. I'm both! ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burt Blade, #25657 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I would imagine that none of the top shooters are using full-power loads in whatever caliber they choose. They also practice quite a bit more than the average shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 If I had to shoot 45s,I could not shoot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ok. Sure Bud can win EOT with 44s, T-Bone can win with a hammered double, and sure Duece can win using box stock guns but, can 38 FanTum beat 45 Fantum? Can 45 IROT beat 38 IROT? How about some empirical evidence from shooters who have done some research on the subject. Thanks. Fillmore Actually, yes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goody, SASS #26190 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The real gamers are using the 45's. Throwing a larger pill at the target lessens the chance of a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Ok. Sure Bud can win EOT with 44s, T-Bone can win with a hammered double, and sure Duece can win using box stock guns but, can 38 FanTum beat 45 Fantum? Can 45 IROT beat 38 IROT? How about some empirical evidence from shooters who have done some research on the subject. Thanks. Fillmore I have seen T-Bone shoot 38's at lease once a few years ago. He was no faster. In fact. Seems I remember he did not like them much at all. Might have even been a little slower. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 IF yer lightly loaded .45s retain the kind of accuracy needed and are really loaded light, then yes, they run heads up with .38s. BUT if yer lightly loaded .45s are still a little hotter and most .38s then nope, they run slower. If yer really light .45s spray bullets all over a 16" plate due to inconsistent and overly low pressure, then nope, they run slower because ya miss more. But if yer .45 loads are truly in the same ballpark, and still group well (Mine are 130s running about a 70 power factor), then there's no reason to suspect a .38 will run faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Two answers: 1. its what Lucy was in High School. 2. its a pistol/rifle caliber to some of us who can't afford to buy alot of the bigger bore stuff and practice. Its a caliber used by some of us who are either/both poor and cheap. I'm both! ..........Widder ...hmmmmm....ah...those 38's -- but I know people that shoot 38's that are not poor and cheap. It's time for 'Occupy wealthy 38 shooters' G (you knew Lucy too?) G ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 At a recent match I placed in a respectable position overall in my opinion. I realized later that all the folks who placed ahead of me, (in several different categories), were shooting 38s. This made me wonder. All things being the same, will a smallbore shooter typically be faster than a big-bore shooter? Fillmore A simplististic answer,,,, yes, the 38 generally is faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pulp, SASS#28319 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I don't reckon Lucy went to my high school. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Coles SASS 1188 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think that its safe to say that it is possible to win matches shooting 45s, but it as also safe to say that it is easier with lighter calibers. Less recoil is a real benefit in making speed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think that its safe to say that it is possible to win matches shooting 45s, but it as also safe to say that it is easier with lighter calibers. Less recoil is a real benefit in making speed. Only to a certain point, afterwhich it slows ya down. A light loaded 45 is more then capable of performing at top-speeds. Remember that match speeds are a bit different then Side Match speeds. Cheers! Phantom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Go too light with recoil and it's detrimental to speed. Recoil is needed. I actually examined this once and have some data floating around somewhere to prove it. As for 45 v 38, the only detriment is cost of ammo for practice. And possible damage to wrists and hands from dealing appropriately with recoil when shooting large quantities of practice ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squint Westwood SASS#2165 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I prefer .45s with 250-grain bullets traveling at about 850 fps. I shoot them double duelist, often not using the sights ("outlaw"). Do I win? No, but I don't care. I compete against myself. If I shoot a clean match, I'm a "winner." I have fun and that's what it's all about. Do what pleases you. Happy trails, Squint Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Montana, SASS #23907 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 No, they were born that way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Two Rivers Marshal, SASS #78417 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Well, cause I'm still fairly new here, might as well give the pot a stir... Long as there filled with black powder, don't rekkon the smoke clears any faster with 38's than 45's Watching the folks I get to shoot with the fast shooters are split between small bore and big bores. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Can 45 IROT beat 38 IROT? If I practice equally with each, then a 12-stage match would have an even split between the two. 6 stages won with the .38s and 6 with the .45s. I asked lefty Longridge several years ago if I should switch to .38s. He said a flat-out NO because he didn't think it would make any difference. Practice is the key. That's what a former World Champ says. Who am I to question him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Checotah Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 This made me wonder. All things being the same, will a smallbore shooter typically be faster than a big-bore shooter? If your question presumes lightened loads, then I assume there is little difference. If, on the other hand, your question presumes full, top of the chart loads with, for example, 250 gr. .45 Colt vs. 158 gr. .38 spcl., then I suspect the answer is "yea". That's only my suspicion; perhaps more knowledgable than I can provide a definitive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If you load 45's with light bullets and load them near 38 recoil levels, it wouldn't matter much. If someone's shooting 250 gr bullets at higher velocity it should make at least some difference. Smokin Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 If Ya drop the hammer on a round while the barrel on yer .45 is still elivated due to recoil ,,,, you won't be welcome on the range for long ..... Folks used ta seek some "Juice" in their .38s that's why the .38--44 round was born (pre .357) now it seems that some folks is creating a "New" round .45--32 .... But play your game the way it suits you .... My .45s are slower to shoot than .38s and when I shoot my .38 it bucks and snorts more than most "Modern" .45s used in this game (158 gr. @ 960 Fps.) Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I think the fast guys use 38 because the fast guys practice and shoot matches as well…..that’s a lot of shootin’. Unless you have lots of extra cash it cost MUCH more to shoot 45 AND practice with them as well. If you shoot once or twice a month.....no big deal. So if you think about it makes sense that that "most" of the fast guys are using 38's.....but it's not about the recoil it’s about cost. With me and my wife shooting 44's it was getting to be an issue so that is why we switched to 38....to have more money to go to matches with......then we got fater too.....go figure but it was from the extra shooting not the difference in recoil. Matter of fact some of the lightest loads I have personally seen are from people playing with 45 cartridge variations.....looked like a rock throwing contest and IMO is the main reason SASS had to add the velocity "catch all" to the power factor rule. One last thing if you are buying factory cowboy ammo then I might change my stance a bit but how many Top shooter’s are buying commercial cowboy loads? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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