Arizona Lefty Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Is this something that happens regularly or is noticeable occurance? If not then why are we wanting another rule? If they can shoot that fast have two stage DNFs and finish in the awards then maybe the rest of us should practice more! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cholla Bob Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yupper! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Ironsmith Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes. Both SOG and SDQ's are already set that way... Seems to me,the powers that be, have already "set" a minimum quantity of competition. This would bring a DNF in line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hud McCoy Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 My club is having an extra shoot this month and I am going to score it total time instead of the usual rank point system. I know that the argument has always been that if you use total time or rank point that there is really not much of a difference in the finishing order. Therefore if this rule is adopted, the only fair thing would be to have total time matches. I have witnessed shooters leave because of rain etc. and still finish well in their category and the match as well. If you made it total time, then certain shooters would think twice about all of those 999's on their score card. I also advocate a rule that I would like to call "Cart Ass Rule" in which a shooter who only shoots and then sits back down and mentally prepares for the next stage and refuses to work for his or her posse would walk around with a sign that reads "I am self centered and paid my match fees to be so". lol To many changes and bellyaching, Hud McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest diablo slim shootist Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 "I also advocate a rule that I would like to call "Cart Ass Rule" in which a shooter who only shoots and then sits back down and mentally prepares for the next stage and refuses to work for his or her posse would walk around with a sign that reads "I am self centered and paid my match fees to be so". lol +1 :wub: :wub: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Stallings Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes, keep it the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 No Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 No, having to leave for medical, or any other reason should not equal a match DQ as far as awards go. If you loose to someone that did not complete all stages, and they got the maximum penalty for that stage, then you need to practice ands stop complaining that you got beat by someone that did not shoot all of the stages. It is not like they left because they already knew they beat you. And they certainly will not win the match. This will get a lot of votes but i don't believe it will get the 2/3rds needed to pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Chance Ramsay, SASS#18962 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes is how I vote. If we agree to the fact that if they only shoot a few stages then quit for whatever reason and whip you then why even have them shoot. You can't win if you don't finish. Just mail their award because, I know several of the shooters in any class that I will never beat so why make them waste the ammo. Then we can just let all us 'average' shooters continue on with the match. Chance Ramsey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee, SASS #266 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 NO! Unless they voluntarily absent themselves from the shooting (i.e. if it is raining, too cold or they just want to go home). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I can see both sides of this, however, it kind of seems to me that if a shooter doesn't shoot all of the stages then they didn't finish the race, so to speak. I don't see how you can win the race if you don't finish it. Boondock May not win the race, may have a wreck, blown engine. But they still have a standing in the race and receive payment accordingly. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 ...1. Yes and no. If a competitor choses not to shoot stages when they are otherwise able to shoot, then ABSOLUTELY YES, this is a SOG issue, at least to me. If they have an injury or physical or other reason beyond their control - then NO... Exactly and the rule is already there. Maybe some additional wording so that the potential application of a SOG would not be considered by some a "secret ruling." Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Will have to see what the club members say. But I would suggest amending the "did not finish" to "did not start." That way, if a shooter attempts the stages, but for whatever reason cannot complete the stage, then he or she is not penalized by a Match DQ. We have also had shooters who, for a variety of very good reasons, could not shoot the second day of a two day match. Missing 6 stages of a 12 stage match would certainly eliminate them from trophies, but I bet they would still like to see how they did on stages 1 through 6 compared to their friends. This rule would require me to score them a Match DQ on all stages, so their scores would not be visible on the time sheet. Simply making someone ineligible for trophies of any kind if they had two or more "Did Not Starts" would accomplish the same thing. Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 --- Yes and no. If a competitor choses not to shoot stages when they are otherwise able to shoot, then ABSOLUTELY YES, this is a SOG issue, at least to me. If they have an injury or physical or other reason beyond their control - then NO. But, who is going to make the determination that the shooter was or was not able to continue the match? And what is the definition of "beyond their control?" Too many variables there, and lot of the decisions would be made depending on WHO the shooter in question was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuckaroo #13080 Regulator Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I think if the wording was different we could get a passing of this. For those that quit because they are to cold, to hot or it is raining, then they would forfeit the opportunity for any awards. For those that became ill, had gun failure with no replacement, some emergency, got injured etc., then that would not eliminate them from any awards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 A big NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Okie! I'm getting tired of this. Quit "hemming and hawing" and tell us how you really feel. Regards, Allie Mo PS I thought it was funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethan callahan Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 why 2? shouldn't it be 1? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Buk Chuck SASS # 24540 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Happy Jack, SASS #20451 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 My vote is NO !!! Leave things the way they are. All of my reasons have already been articulated. (practice more, whine less) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 My vote is Yes .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I can see both sides of this, however, it kind of seems to me that if a shooter doesn't shoot all of the stages then they didn't finish the race, so to speak. I don't see how you can win the race if you don't finish it. I guess it comes down to whether you consider a match as one big match, or several small matches. If you see it as one big match, then you got to shoot all of the stages to win. If it's a combination of several one stage matches, then leave it like it is. Me personally? I'm not to dug in either way. Boondock If you want to use the "Race" example....With "Rank Points a 10 stage match is 10 different "Races" let's look at NASCAR, 36 races, you can DNF in a few races and still win the Championship!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 "I also advocate a rule that I would like to call "Cart Ass Rule" in which a shooter who only shoots and then sits back down and mentally prepares for the next stage and refuses to work for his or her posse would walk around with a sign that reads "I am self centered and paid my match fees to be so". lol +1 :wub: :wub: :lol: :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 NO!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 If you want to use the "Race" example....With "Rank Points a 10 stage match is 10 different "Races" let's look at NASCAR, 36 races, you can DNF in a few races and still win the Championship!!! Good point... if you look at a match as however many "races", but I don't. Now if we had some sort of cumulative math score for a championship (which I wouldn't know how it would work nor do I advocate it) I could see it.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 IF someone does not finish. And still beats me. And it bothered me. That is not a them, problem. That is a me, problem. Maybe I should look in the mirror and tell myself so step my game up if I wanted to beat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Good point... if you look at a match as however many "races", but I don't. Now if we had some sort of cumulative math score for a championship (which I wouldn't know how it would work nor do I advocate it) I could see it.... Yep. That is what a 10 stage rank point match is, just that. 10 races. Each one has it's own winner and loser. And then you start over on the next stage and can have all different winners and losers. Then just add um up to see who won the championship. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think if the wording was different we could get a passing of this. For those that quit because they are to cold, to hot or it is raining, then they would forfeit the opportunity for any awards. For those that became ill, had gun failure with no replacement, some emergency, got injured etc., then that would not eliminate them from any awards. That is the only way I would go for it. Let the MD make the call as to which one it would be. After all. That is why he gets the big bucks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Jack, SASS #77862 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yep. That is what a 10 stage rank point match is, just that. 10 races. Each one has it's own winner and loser. And then you start over on the next stage and can have all different winners and losers. Then just add um up to see who won the championship. I had in mind scores from other matches being combined, but this actually is the best description I've read on how to look at rank scoring. I don't see it except at the Regional and Winter Range... I just go out and do my best to do my best. Hmmmmmm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longshot Ace, SASS #75961 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 If you made it total time, then certain shooters would think twice about all of those 999's on their score card. I also advocate a rule that I would like to call "Cart Ass Rule" If it was Total Time the penalty is 5 seconds for each target plus 30 seconds. Thus a 10-10-4 stage would be 150. 999 should be used for Rank scoring only. I still vote NO, however I do like the Cart Ass Rule RO I page 24 If overall time is used, a maximum allowed time for each stage should be calculated prior to the match to be used as the disqualification score and maximum stage score. It is recommended the maximum time allowed for a stage be a total of all the available targets/miss penalties plus 30 seconds. Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wrangler Jones, SASS # 64178 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 IMO, NO. As others have said, if someone can DNF two or more stages and beat me, more power to them. IMO this is an ill guided attempt to negate part of the shortcomings of rank scoring. But that is another can of worms. Most of the problems with Rank Scoring are between the ears of the folk that don't like the system. NO -- Best shooter wins. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J-BAR #18287 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 I think if the wording was different we could get a passing of this. For those that quit because they are to cold, to hot or it is raining, then they would forfeit the opportunity for any awards. For those that became ill, had gun failure with no replacement, some emergency, got injured etc., then that would not eliminate them from any awards. If some DNFs are excused and others are not, then you can bet that every DNF will be due to "an emergency" or "illness". I have not totally made up my mind on this question because there are good arguments on both sides. But dang it there is a limit. A DNF for any reason is still a DNF, and it goes on the scoresheet as such. Trying to distinguish between acceptable and unacceptable DNFs just invites more trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 Nevermind!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crooked jake,4371 Posted October 18, 2011 Share Posted October 18, 2011 NO If a shooter couldn't shoot two or more stages and still whupped me, then he deserves the win! I don't want an award that bad that I gotta take it away from somebody that shot that much better than me. If you change the rules, and gave the award to me, I'd go give the plaque, ribbon, or certificate to the pard that rightfully won it. +1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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