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Agenda Item #5


PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L

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My personal belief is that eliminating Grand Dame and not including ladies categories for the categories added to the proposed list of Official Categories is a serious mistake that could result in an overwhelming "No" vote from a majority of clubs.

 

 

Remember the old saying "If Momma ain't happy, ain't nobody happy."

 

 

Seems like all they need to do is add Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.. at a stand alone vote..

Leave the rest of them alone..

 

Seems kinda like congress.. lump a bunch of stuff together so it won't pass...

See there we voted on it.. we gave you a chance... :wacko:

 

Rance <_<

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Well now I guess I can ADD my two cents worth.

 

I am a HUGE proponent for FRONTIER CARTRIDGE GUNFIGHTER. And I and several pards have promoted it openly on the wire for the last couple of years. In 2009 we got 58% for adding it as a SASS RECOGNIZED CATEGORY. Last year we got 63% in favor of it.

 

We even got the WB to add it at EOT in 2011 on a trial basis. It worked, we had 16 shooters shoot at EOT. Out of 637 shooters that shot the match there were 55 that shot in a Gunfighter category.

 

I was told by the powers that be that FCGF would be on the Agenda at the Convention in December... well low and behold it is but......

 

It has been dumped into ITEM # 5 that is trying to remove some categories for Lady Shooters. In my opinion this is not the way we wanted to go.

 

I realize that the rule says that the MD for any match can ADD ANYY CATEGORY they want for THEIR MATCH. The reason we wanted FCGF added as a RECOGNIZED CATEGORY was so that it would BE on the Match Application. That way people would/could sign up for it. We would NOT have to go out and find 3 or 5 shooters to shoot it. If the MD did not get enough shooters then they could let the ones know ahead of time so they could shoot in another category.

 

JUDGE

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Well now I guess I can ADD my two cents worth.

 

I am a HUGE proponent for FRONTIER CARTRIDGE GUNFIGHTER. And I and several pards have promoted it openly on the wire for the last couple of years. In 2009 we got 58% for adding it as a SASS RECOGNIZED CATEGORY. Last year we got 63% in favor of it.

 

We even got the WB to add it at EOT in 2011 on a trial basis. It worked, we had 16 shooters shoot at EOT. Out of 637 shooters that shot the match there were 55 that shot in a Gunfighter category.

 

I was told by the powers that be that FCGF would be on the Agenda at the Convention in December... well low and behold it is but......

 

It has been dumped into ITEM # 5 that is trying to remove some categories for Lady Shooters. In my opinion this is not the way we wanted to go.

 

I realize that the rule says that the MD for any match can ADD ANYY CATEGORY they want for THEIR MATCH. The reason we wanted FCGF added as a RECOGNIZED CATEGORY was so that it would BE on the Match Application. That way people would/could sign up for it. We would NOT have to go out and find 3 or 5 shooters to shoot it. If the MD did not get enough shooters then they could let the ones know ahead of time so they could shoot in another category.

 

JUDGE

 

Almost exactly my words to a voting TG the other day. What's so hard about ONE (no age brackets) more catagory as obvious as FCGF?

 

CR

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no problem here-- but I do not see outlaw, pale rider or josie wales.

 

Those will probably be only available by match discretion for a long, long time.

 

CR

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Every time I think about this agenda item, I find more things wrong with it than right. I am still not sure if the primary goal is to reduce the number of awards to save costs for the Match, to combat the perceived problem of Category Shopping, or to "Add Meaning" to the award by guaranteeing that there were multiple competitors in each category.

 

As far as reducing the number of awards, I don't see that happening at the bigger matches anyway. Most of the matches that seem to get the biggest positive responses in the Chronicle and on the Wire are the same ones that make a big point of how deep they go with the buckles. It might help at the smaller state matches, but at the larger ones and the Regional's, I doubt it will change much at all.

 

I also disagree with the notion that if a person signs up for a category and, through no fault of their own, ends up as the only participant in that category, that they don't deserve the win. This is especially true in some of the ladies categories. Those participants spent their time and money to practice in that category, and in many cases it is the only category they ever shoot, and they could be forced to change to another category. That just doesn't seem to fit the Spirit of the Game in my book. Are there people who "Category Shop" for the win, absolutely. I have personally seen it on many occasions. Does it bother me, not as much as being told, or having to tell someone else, that we can't compete in our chosen categories!

 

As far as adding meaning to the award, I offer this example. Doo Hickey, my son, signed up for Frontiersman at the NE Regional a few years ago. There were multiple shooters signed up at the time for that category. The match turned out to be cold and wet and all of the other Frontiersman dropped out to shoot other categories or chose not to attend for other reasons. Doo Hickey had no idea that he was the only competitor in that category, and he fought his way through wet powder, misfires, 100 second stages, and he took a lot of flack from some of the other posse members that he was slowing everyone else down, but he finished the match. Was his effort meaningless because he didn't have a competitor on match day? All I will say is that the smile on his face on Awards Day was PRICELESS!

 

Yes, I realize that the Match Director can add categories as they deem necesary, but why make that necessary. Having helped do the posse assignments for both the Maryland State Championship and the NE Regional for several years, I can tell you that, at least in my opinion, the only categories that will be hurt are the Ladies Categories. Will the match directors cut those categories out because there are only two, or one? I don't know, but I would personally hate to be the one who made the decision to tell the Grand Dame or Ladies Frontier Cartridge Dualist competator that their category wasn't being offered!

 

Bottom line, withhold my buckle, (Of course I would have to win my category first and that's not likely!), keep my plaque, and give me a "WINNER" certificate hand written on the soggy torn off lid of a Winchester AA Box pulled out of the trash can, but let me shoot my category! If people think that I didn't deserve the win, (assuming that I ever won), then I would encourage them come out next year, shoot in my category, and kick my butt. I won't be hard to do!

 

Respectfully,

 

Dogmeat Dad "Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter Ordinaire"

 

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It just seems like this is an attempt to push FCGF to the back burner for a couple of years. We have gotten the majority two years in a row and just missed the required super majority last year. Now this year it gets lumped in with a proposal that I cannot believe anyone thinks would be popular. It will get voted down very soundly as it should. Then it cannot be brought up again for two years, and I assume neither can any individual part of this lump.

 

It seems whoever set the agenda items is taking a lesson from congress and the tax code.

 

All I ask at this point if you are a TG that would have voted for FCGF as a stand alone proposal make that clear when you vote this down.

 

Thanks in advance,

 

Smoke

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Every time I think about this agenda item, I find more things wrong with it than right. I am still not sure if the primary goal is to reduce the number of awards to save costs for the Match, to combat the perceived problem of Category Shopping, or to "Add Meaning" to the award by guaranteeing that there were multiple competitors in each category.

 

As far as reducing the number of awards, I don't see that happening at the bigger matches anyway. Most of the matches that seem to get the biggest positive responses in the Chronicle and on the Wire are the same ones that make a big point of how deep they go with the buckles. It might help at the smaller state matches, but at the larger ones and the Regional's, I doubt it will change much at all.

 

I also disagree with the notion that if a person signs up for a category and, through no fault of their own, ends up as the only participant in that category, that they don't deserve the win. This is especially true in some of the ladies categories. Those participants spent their time and money to practice in that category, and in many cases it is the only category they ever shoot, and they could be forced to change to another category. That just doesn't seem to fit the Spirit of the Game in my book. Are there people who "Category Shop" for the win, absolutely. I have personally seen it on many occasions. Does it bother me, not as much as being told, or having to tell someone else, that we can't compete in our chosen categories!

 

As far as adding meaning to the award, I offer this example. Doo Hickey, my son, signed up for Frontiersman at the NE Regional a few years ago. There were multiple shooters signed up at the time for that category. The match turned out to be cold and wet and all of the other Frontiersman dropped out to shoot other categories or chose not to attend for other reasons. Doo Hickey had no idea that he was the only competitor in that category, and he fought his way through wet powder, misfires, 100 second stages, and he took a lot of flack from some of the other posse members that he was slowing everyone else down, but he finished the match. Was his effort meaningless because he didn't have a competitor on match day? All I will say is that the smile on his face on Awards Day was PRICELESS!

 

Yes, I realize that the Match Director can add categories as they deem necesary, but why make that necessary. Having helped do the posse assignments for both the Maryland State Championship and the NE Regional for several years, I can tell you that, at least in my opinion, the only categories that will be hurt are the Ladies Categories. Will the match directors cut those categories out because there are only two, or one? I don't know, but I would personally hate to be the one who made the decision to tell the Grand Dame or Ladies Frontier Cartridge Dualist competator that their category wasn't being offered!

 

Bottom line, withhold my buckle, (Of course I would have to win my category first and that's not likely!), keep my plaque, and give me a "WINNER" certificate hand written on the soggy torn off lid of a Winchester AA Box pulled out of the trash can, but let me shoot my category! If people think that I didn't deserve the win, (assuming that I ever won), then I would encourage them come out next year, shoot in my category, and kick my butt. I won't be hard to do!

 

Respectfully,

 

Dogmeat Dad "Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter Ordinaire"

 

 

+1

 

Six-Shot

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FCGF could be a category by decree. That would end the argument and game playing. With the recent debacle created by the sweeping category realignment, there won’t be much support for more of the same.

 

Meanwhile, at least around here, enough clubs offer FCGF that those of us who care can get our fill.

 

CR

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Howdy All,

 

In case you haven't noticed, the Convention, and thus the TG Summit, is only 4 Weeks Away!

 

If you have not made the effort to do so, contact your TG and let them know your opinion on the five agenda items being voted on this year. All of the TG's I know vote the way thier club members want them to, regardless of their personal opinions on the items. Unfortunately many club members fail to let their TG's know what they want and then are unhappy with the results. Do your part and Vote!

 

This is a Non-Paid, Non-Political, Announcement,

 

Dogmeat Dad

 

P.S. A BIG THANK YOU TO ALL THE TG's FOR THEIR HARD WORK!

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Item#5 As written, a great big NO.

 

Add the Ladies back in EVERY category, then a great big YES.

 

As stated before, whoever wrote this and eliminated the ladies from some of the categories, was not thinking clearly. The ladies are an important part of this game, and as such should have access to all categories.

 

Closing the allowed range of the age based categiries will eliminate the cherry picking, and thus make for better equalization in all categories.

 

RBK

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Seems like all they need to do is add Frontier Cartridge Gunfighter.. at a stand alone vote..

Leave the rest of them alone..

 

Seems kinda like congress.. lump a bunch of stuff together so it won't pass...

See there we voted on it.. we gave you a chance... :wacko:

 

Rance <_<

 

+1

 

Six-Shot

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Guest Cinch, SASS#29433

I wanna vote Yes but...

 

1. I love everybody!!

2. This has a 6 year old shooting against a 13 year old!! Where is the 5 year break there... Hmmm!!

3. Match Directors... order 96 awards... NOW!! (EOT - WR order 320 buckles NOW!!)

4. Matches with 110 shooters or less the MD should have the option to place the award in the shooters packet!!

5. MD's who include the buckles in the shooters packet may not have the Banquet as the awards already went to everone!!

6. An Old Geezer should be allowed to wear a petticoat and shoot Grande Dame so a to not bring the ACLU into play.

7. Remember 10 years ago when all those 18 year olds were gonna take over... ;)

 

:lol::lol::lol:

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