PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 4) Should the “B” Western Category options be rewritten to allow for additional ladies costuming options? A YES vote would have the ROC rewrite the BW requirements to include the suggested changes. A NO vote would leave BW as is. (The changes referenced are those suggested in the October "Cowboy Chronicle" pages 38-39) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Don't shoot B Western.. but.. Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Change the firearm requirement to meet "B" western category and what was actually used by "B" westerns. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hellfire # 35333L Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 What are the suggested changes? My wife would like to know. Hellfire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 While we are fooling around with B-Western. Let's add the additional requirement that only Double Barrel Shotguns be allowed in this category. While I agree with some of the changes that the lady mentions in the article, I do not abide with allowing indian/native american costuming in this category even with the ladies. The rules will be stretched (and you know they will) and a loin cloth will show up on your ranged wrapped around a scary person with guns. And I don't see how you are going to allow a GABBY HAYES type costume without pushing the category over the cliff of "anything goes". (Hence your comment of "women's requirements only"). Move the words "FLASHY and FANCY" in the rules to the first thing in the rules and put more emphases on it. ( A plaid shirt or a long sleeve shirt of plain design with snaps down the front is just not in the spirit of this category, but is currently legal. My advise is to tread carefully here as I see the camel nose heading for the tent opening. As for the proposed agenda item directly. NO is my vote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 15, 2011 Author Share Posted October 15, 2011 What are the suggested changes? My wife would like to know. Hellfire (The changes referenced are those suggested in the October "Cowboy Chronicle" pages 38-39) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 YES, leave the firearms requirements alone..myself i dunt see why it is a female only change, but still YES CC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Yup, if the ladies shooting B-Western want it, I'm all for it. And if I read the Oct CC right, it would mean for more Saloon girls at matches, and I'm definitely in favor of that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I think if you are going to change B-Western it should require a hammered double and a one-handed shooting style, either Duelist or Gunfighter. I also think a plaid shirt with snaps is not in any way Flashy or in the spirit of the costume requirements. All that said I'll shoot it sometimes no mater what changes or doesn't. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maddog McCoy SASS #5672 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I currently shoot B-Western. I have spent all sorts of money to look good in this catagory and this was the intent of the catagory. THERE SHOULD NO CHANGES IN THe B-WESTERN CATAGORY IN ANY WAY SHAPE OR FORM. IT IS FINE THE WAY IT IS. I switched to this after they did away with the Modern catagory. If you unsure about how I feel about this read the second line again. Maddog McCoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 I don't shoot B Western, but my wife does. She likes it just as it is. I read the article, and while I see a competitor dressing like Tonto or some other clearly recognizable "personality", then I think the result would be a loose of the Spirit of the category its self. Folks would start showing up dressed as their idea of BW, and many would be pretty much indistinguishable from those dressing minimal "cowboy." In short, I think it would diminish the category. At best, it would take it away from what Coyote Calhoun invisioned. Any changes in BW need to be carefully considered, and clearly articulated by the folks who shoot it - not the TGs in general. .....and any changes made for the ladies should apply to the men as well. Watch at slope, it's a slippery little bugger! Costumes aside, leave the guns alone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I thought the Cowboy Chronicle article did a good job of pointing out that the current B Western was written essentially only for men and left a great deal to be desired for a ladies category. The article pointed out that most of the more famous women's outfits in western movies would not be allowed in Ladies B Western as the rules now stand. So I think the change would be great for encouraging more ladies that wanted to do that. I do not think we need to overhaul the entire category requirements. Some B Western shooters in our area are concerned that a rewrite would open up a can of worms - as you can see many folks have some strong feelings for changing stuff more and possibly restricting it more. So if the changes were limited to changing the category as far as making it suitable for ladies emulating popular figures of the old movies, I would find that acceptable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 PWB posted this link elsewhere. Scroll down to heroines and leading ladies on the left side menu. So, what is distinctive/unique about these popular movie figures that ladies could emulate? What would it look like and how would it effect the BW category? Might make a good starting pointy for discussion. Beside, it's a cool website! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I say more wardrobes and more wardrobe malfunctions. YES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Bill Burt Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I thought the Cowboy Chronicle article did a good job of pointing out that the current B Western was written essentially only for men and left a great deal to be desired for a ladies category. The article pointed out that most of the more famous women's outfits in western movies would not be allowed in Ladies B Western as the rules now stand. So I think the change would be great for encouraging more ladies that wanted to do that. I do not think we need to overhaul the entire category requirements. Some B Western shooters in our area are concerned that a rewrite would open up a can of worms - as you can see many folks have some strong feelings for changing stuff more and possibly restricting it more. So if the changes were limited to changing the category as far as making it suitable for ladies emulating popular figures of the old movies, I would find that acceptable. +1Yes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arizona Lefty Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Again WHY? All of the "costume" suggestions made in the Chronicle are legal for other Categories. Wanna Be Festus or Gabby then shoot the age based Category. B Western and Classic Cowboy were created to appeal to a certain group of cowboy shooters that have as much fun "dressing Up" as they do shooting. All of the "dress suggestions" in the Chronicle can be done in other Categories. Sidekicks, Saloon Girls and Indian Maidens are already allowed, you want to dress up that way to play you are already welcomed to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Adams 3674 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Again WHY? All of the "costume" suggestions made in the Chronicle are legal for other Categories. Wanna Be Festus or Gabby then shoot the age based Category. B Western and Classic Cowboy were created to appeal to a certain group of cowboy shooters that have as much fun "dressing Up" as they do shooting. All of the "dress suggestions" in the Chronicle can be done in other Categories. Sidekicks, Saloon Girls and Indian Maidens are already allowed, you want to dress up that way to play you are already welcomed to do so. +1 Yep! Again, what does it look like, and how is that distinctive/unique? Watch that slope! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Ironsmith Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes! My wife just started shooting in the last year, and enjoys the costuming asspect of BW, but has found the rules to be pretty limiting as far as female costumes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 In every western movie there are Saloon Girls. A movies and B movies. Saloon Girls are NOT B Western. Allowing Saloon Girl changes the flavor of the Category. Saloon Girl is OK to shoot in Classic Cowboy, yes it is read the womens costume guidelines for Classic. Just shot with large guns. Saloon Girl is OK to shoot in every other category in SASS. Saloon Girl would dilute the uniqueness of the Category. And "The Duke". The Duke movies were never B movies. There are plenty of Costume Options available for B Western Women and Men. Just use your imagination. Gabby Hayes not allowed? Au Contraire. If the shooter has a pearl snap shirt, smiley pocket, fringe, piped shirt, ranch pants with belt, fancy boots with spurs, scarf, bolo tie, gloves, gauntlets and felt hat, he meets the category requirments. And his character is clearly recognized as B Western. We must ask the question; What would Coyote Calhoun Do? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 In every western movie there are Saloon Girls. A movies and B movies. Saloon Girls are NOT B Western. Allowing Saloon Girl changes the flavor of the Category. Saloon Girl is OK to shoot in Classic Cowboy, yes it is read the womens costume guidelines for Classic. Just shot with large guns. Saloon Girl is OK to shoot in every other category in SASS. Saloon Girl would dilute the uniqueness of the Category. And "The Duke". The Duke movies were never B movies. There are plenty of Costume Options available for B Western Women and Men. Just use your imagination. Gabby Hayes not allowed? Au Contraire. If the shooter has a pearl snap shirt, smiley pocket, fringe, piped shirt, ranch pants with belt, fancy boots with spurs, scarf, bolo tie, gloves, gauntlets and felt hat, he meets the category requirments. And his character is clearly recognized as B Western. We must ask the question; What would Coyote Calhoun Do? I agree 110% on this. The proposed changes are not "B" western for the ladies. The movies listing costuming of Betty Grable, Jane Russell, and Marilyn Monroe, were not "B" western movies, rather big budgeted "A" movies. (remember the cost of a "B" movie western was usually 8,000.00 to 15,000.00. The profit made from the Rocky Lane "B" werte reinvested into Roy Roger films). "B" westerns for the most part did not have the costuming depicted, remember "B" westerns were made for the kiddy goers. And no respectable "B" western heroes would enter such a Saloon. Actually, most "B" western saloon girls were covered from neck to her feet, and not form fitting. But if this is voted in, "A" western ladies costuming, then John Wayne costuming from his "A" movies maybe not far off. With the controversy of most not understanding "B" dress, firearm that were never a part of "B" westerns. Maybe its time to drop "B" completely, even though I shoot the category. I'll just dress in my age group. MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Hi Folks, I rather like the idea. However, I'd like to see a condensed draft of the proposal with the understanding that it can still be tweeked before inclusion in the Handbook. Referring us to a two-page article is not helpful. Remember, it only affects the ladies! The flash can be kept with the new costuming ideas. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Two B Western ladies have already responded to my email. Both said they have the option of various pants, split riding skirt or skirt. They don't want dresses or other items. They feel they can dress up as much as they want right now. They voted a big NO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ethan callahan Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
No Buk Chuck SASS # 24540 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 No! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.D.Ironsmith Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 The opinions of those who oppose Agenda Item 4 have left me wondering about some things... If the proposed changes were made, would it negate or make illegal, in any way, the costumes currently being worn, by Lady B-Western competitors? Or, would it allow MORE competitors to compete in the Lady B-Western category, depicting their interpretation of the era and it's characters? A quick look at Washington State Championship (WESTMATCH) shows NO Lady B-Western competitors, SASS Northwest Regional had 3 competitors, and the last local match I went to (Mima Marauders, in WA) had 46 competitors, and only 1 Lady B-Western competitor. Now I don't know if these low numbers are a regional thing... but from them it seems some tweaking of the rules could be in order to promote more participation in this category. (And, I realize, we don't want to make current competitors dislike the category and leave it either...) I don't agree with changing rules just for the sake of change, but this proposal (seems to me) has an obvious objective... to INCREASE participation in the category! Just don't see how the proposal negatively affects those currently competing in Lady B-Western. To me, the more entries in a category, the more of a competition it is and thefore more fun it is. This proposal seems to be aimed at INCLUDING more competitors, without excluding those who are currently there. Respectfully, J.D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Filthy Harry, SASS #24924 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 To quote Maddog Mccoy, "no changes needed in B Western". Once you make a category and everyone buys guns and clothing, LEAVE IT ALONE. No category will satisfy everyone, so make the rules and live with it. I changed my guns leather and accessories to fit the class as did Maddog. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry McKenna #700L Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I support the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 As I stated earlier, Saloon Girl can be shot in EVERY category in SASS except B Western. Leave the B Western category unique, don't dilute it with extraneous costumes As for the person who wrote the article in the CC. Who is Miss Tabitha? I've never seen her name on any top ten list for any State or above Lady's B Western shooters. Is she a Reenactor, a costume designer, someones wife who doesn't shoot? What's her gravitas? It appears the Wild Bunch want her input to be heard in the discussion but who is she? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 I say more wardrobes and more wardrobe malfunctions. YES That was my thinking. The more saloon girls the better. BUT. When talking about it with the wife. Who DOES shoot Lady's B Western. And her hearing some others. Her vote is NO. Leave it as is. She does not want to open that door to other things that will take away from what it is. And being that it is her category that would be affected the most. And she says NO. Then I vote NO right along side her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brother King, SASS #69031 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 In the spirit of Tex's article in the CC this month, let me ask, then..... WHAT ABOUT OUR NEEDS? Nothin' will get the crowds more spectatin' than a bunch of cowgirls with bling and jeans and boots and let's face it, that's good for everyone. I see the plan now. It's the new marketing plan designed to recruit the spectators at EOT. More bling= more spectators. BRILLIANT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 As for the person who wrote the article in the CC. Who is Miss Tabitha? I've never seen her name on any top ten list for any State or above Lady's B Western shooters. Is she a Reenactor, a costume designer, someones wife who doesn't shoot? What's her gravitas? It appears the Wild Bunch want her input to be heard in the discussion but who is she? She is an active CAS shooter, a vendor with her hubbie Mad Mountain Mike (River Crossing), teaches seminars at Convention, promotes the role of women in SASS, and is very knowledgeable about costuming. Kind of a cheap shot at a lovely lady. That said, I don't agree with her, nor do the two ladies who provided me with input on LBW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 She is an active CAS shooter, a vendor with her hubbie Mad Mountain Mike (River Crossing), teaches seminars at Convention, promotes the role of women in SASS, and is very knowledgeable about costuming. Kind of a cheap shot at a lovely lady. That said, I don't agree with her, nor do the two ladies who provided me with input on LBW. Did not mean it to be a "cheap shot". I didn't know who she is. Does she shoot B Western? If not, why is she the "spokesperson" for changing Ladies B Western costume guidelines? Just because I fly model planes doesn't mean I should be a spokesperson for the airline industry. Just sayin' Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Just because I fly model planes doesn't mean I should be a spokesperson for the airline industry. Just sayin' Why not? I bet you'd be more reputable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Dan Troop 70448 Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 She is an active CAS shooter, a vendor with her hubbie Mad Mountain Mike (River Crossing), teaches seminars at Convention, promotes the role of women in SASS, and is very knowledgeable about costuming. Kind of a cheap shot at a lovely lady. That said, I don't agree with her, nor do the two ladies who provided me with input on LBW. Its a marketing ploy. Aren't they also involved in "The Silver Screen Saloon Show"? Kinda like politicians, getting a change, then providing the product? Sorry, but she maybe a CAS, Vendor, teaches, but knows nothing about "B" western costuming for the ladies. Seems "B" western category, as many have said, may just become a "costume category" only. Wonder how many of those voting "YES" are active in the category? MT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted October 17, 2011 Share Posted October 17, 2011 Why not? I bet you'd be more reputable. Yeah but TSA wouldn't like me discharging my Black Powder rounds on board. nyuk nyuk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.