Question on item # 2, 2011 TG Summit

[Ruff Cobb]

I just received a copy of the proposed TG Summit agenda items & have made a couple of inquiries & can't find an answer to this query.

 

Item 2, "A yes vote would no longer allow a shooter to compete in Age Based categories below his/her actual age range".

 

In my situation I shoot an age based category, Senior Duelist. I'll be 70 on my next birthday and by SASS defination an Elder Statesman.

 

Question, if this passes does this mean that I can no longer shoot in a duelist class as the age parameters in this class end at age 69 and there is no Elder Statesman duelist class?

 

I'd really appreciate hearing an informed answer on this. Many thanks, Ruff Cobb

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Maybe they will make another category!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

<ducking>

[Prof. Fuller Bullspit]

What is the exact wording of the item? For that matter, I'd love to see all the items if someone could post them or point me to a link that would be much appreciated.

 

My answer is uniformed, so ignore it if you want!

 

As for the item in question. I would guess that if this were to pass then you would have to shoot in the plain old duelist category if they didn't add an Elder Statesman duelist category.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

I just received a copy of the proposed TG Summit agenda items & have made a couple of inquiries & can't find an answer to this query.

 

Item 2, "A yes vote would no longer allow a shooter to compete in Age Based categories below his/her actual age range".

 

In my situation I shoot an age based category, Senior Duelist. I'll be 70 on my next birthday and by SASS defination an Elder Statesman.

 

Question, if this passes does this mean that I can no longer shoot in a duelist class as the age parameters in this class end at age 69 and there is no Elder Statesman duelist class?

 

I'd really appreciate hearing an informed answer on this. Many thanks, Ruff Cobb

 

Senior Duelist is listed as 60+ (i.e. NOT "bracketed" with an upper end cutoff)

You would still qualify for either that category or Duelist.

There are no 'officially recognized' Silver Senior or Elder Statesman Duelist categories.

Any Match Director may offer any additional categories; as well as change the minimum number required for recognition.

[Ruff Cobb]

The exact wording of the proposal copy I received is as follows:

 

2)Should the limiting criteria for shooters in Age Based categories be changed from the current "minimum qualifying age OR GREATER" to "between the ages of..."?

(e.g. Wranglers from 36-48; 49ers from 49-59; Seniors from 60-64; etc.)

A YES vote would no longer allow a shooter to compete in Age Based categories below his/her actual age range.

Cowboy/Cowgirl category age range would end at 35 years of age.

The Junior (Buckaroo/ette and Young Gun) categories would NOT be affected.

A NO vote would leave the Age Based category restrictions unchanged.

e.g. Two shooters with adjustable-sighted revolvers & a 66 or 73 rifle:

--A 65 yr old competitor currently has the option to sign up in FIVE Age Based categories:

Silver Senior, Senior, 49er, Wrangler or Cowboy;

--a 26 yr old using those firearms only has ONE option: Cowboy

 

I believe I know the reasoning prompting this proposal but it's the unintended consequences that have my attention.

 

I have received one message that advises me that Senior Duelist is not an age based category but rather a style category but this begs the question on why the category is now split by age and other style categories are not.

 

I'm sure there will be clarification as this goes forward, I was hoping that somebody had the information currently.

 

Many thanks for the responses, Ruff Cobb

[Ruff Cobb]

I just posted the above message & saw PWB's reply. Thanks for the response and this indeed answers my question. Ruff Cobb

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

PWB,

OK, 60+ clears RC's question but then you said OR duelist. I thought the way it is worded a SD could only shoot duelist if rolled back due to numbers lacking in SD. What did I miss?

 

bb

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Younger people are actually bitching about an older person kicking their butts?

 

That's pathetic.

 

Hears to the older folks kickin butt on younger folks!

 

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

PWB,

OK, 60+ clears RC's question but then you said OR duelist. I thought the way it is worded a SD could only shoot duelist if rolled back due to numbers lacking in SD. What did I miss?

 

bb

 

DUELIST is not an AGE-BASED category.

There are NO age limits on the stand-alone "shooting style", Black Powder, or "costume" categories.

 

There are two categories that have BOTH style and age limiting criteria:

Senior Duelist and (the proposed) Senior Gunfighter.

Both of those categories are designated as 60+ to qualify.

[Tell Sackett SASS 18436]

Well, if that passes we'll be done going to all the big SASS matches we've been going to. SASS screwed me over a few years back by eliminating Modern- the category I'd been shooting since I started 14 years ago. The ONLY good thing about the new categories was that I had more choices-3. More as I aged. Now somebody wants to change it up AGAIN. SASS- LEAVE THINGS ALONE! You're only gonna piss people off!

[Judge'm All Duncan, SASS#67320]

What are the other items up for a vote?? Inquiring minds want to know!!!!!

[Santa Fe River Stan,36999L]

This proposal is RIDICULOUS!

 

If a senior wants to shoot in Wrangler. GOOD

 

IF a senior wants to shoot 49. GOOD

 

If a senior wants to shoot Cowboy. GOOD

 

Shame on anyone that complains about getting beat by an OLDER shooter!

 

Stan

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

DUELIST is not an AGE-BASED category.

There are NO age limits on the stand-alone "shooting style", Black Powder, or "costume" categories.

 

There are two categories that have BOTH style and age limiting criteria:

Senior Duelist and (the proposed) Senior Gunfighter.

Both of those categories are designated as 60+ to qualify.

 

 

Thanks PWB, thought about that after I made my post. bb

[Marshal Dan Troop 70448]

What do you do, or what does the age based shooter do if not enough in his category, since he can't drop down? This happens more then some may think, especially at some annuals. It happened to me several times were there were not enough Silver Seniors, so they dropped me into Senior. No problem, but afterwards some Senior complained about it. MT

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

What do you do, or what does the age based shooter do if not enough in his category, since he can't drop down?

This happens more then some may think, especially at some annuals. It happened to me several times were there were not enough Silver Seniors, so they dropped me into Senior. No problem, but afterwards some Senior complained about it. MT

 

Under the proposed "Category Rules" :

 

If it becomes necessary to drop any category due to a failure to meet the minimum number of shooters required,

those effected shooters will be placed into their second choice category.

If no second choice has been given, "Age" based category shooters will “Rollback" into the next lower category.

The only exception is the Cowboy category. Since it is at the bottom of the scale, it will roll forward into the Wrangler category if necessary.

The Junior categories are exempt.

 

Shooters will not be allowed to compete in an "Age" based category that is outside of their age group, except in the case of a category "Rollback"

 

At the MD discretion, ANY category may be added, and any minimum requirement may be reduced.

[Guest Calisto]

Is there a category for the shooter that just wants to shoot in the old Traditional Category style?

[Ruff Cobb]

Thanks PWB, thought about that after I made my post. bb

 

Hey Billy Boots, I still had my brain engaged on other rules from just returning from the Senior Games with different qualifers. Everything was bracketed with lower & upper age criteria as well as shooting style & gender.

 

I just had to have my mind set right & change back to SASS standards. I really feel stupid that I never snapped on the fact that duelist was the only SASS category that was both age & style regulated, I guess I'd been thinking that duelist was age based because of age criteria & black powder cartridge duelist was style related because of no age criteria.

 

"This all makes my head hurt" (quote from Little Big Man) Regards, Ruff Cobb

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Is there a category for the shooter that just wants to shoot in the old Traditional Category style?

 

You may shoot "Traditional-style" (i.e. both hands on a revolver) in ANY category except those requiring DUELIST (or Double Duelist) style.

(Duelist, Classic Cowboy/Cowgirl, Duelist, Senior Duelist, Gunfighter, Frontiersman, and Frontier Cartridge Duelist)

The category rules are in the Shooters Handbook.

[Guest Calisto]

Except according to the proposed question a 72 year old shooter wanting to shoot with a two hand hold without regard to age or a dress code would actually be forced to shoot in the elder statesman category, right?

[Dubious Don #56333]

Ditto that my friend! Ruff's complete post is below. It do seem that would be the effect!

 

Dubious shoots gunfighter and we don't need no stinkin' age ranges.....

 

Younger people are actually bitching about an older person kicking their butts?

 

That's pathetic.

 

Hears to the older folks kickin butt on younger folks!

 

 

The exact wording of the proposal copy I received is as follows:

 

2)Should the limiting criteria for shooters in Age Based categories be changed from the current "minimum qualifying age OR GREATER" to "between the ages of..."?

(e.g. Wranglers from 36-48; 49ers from 49-59; Seniors from 60-64; etc.)

A YES vote would no longer allow a shooter to compete in Age Based categories below his/her actual age range.

Cowboy/Cowgirl category age range would end at 35 years of age.

The Junior (Buckaroo/ette and Young Gun) categories would NOT be affected.

A NO vote would leave the Age Based category restrictions unchanged.

e.g. Two shooters with adjustable-sighted revolvers & a 66 or 73 rifle:

--A 65 yr old competitor currently has the option to sign up in FIVE Age Based categories:

Silver Senior, Senior, 49er, Wrangler or Cowboy;

--a 26 yr old using those firearms only has ONE option: Cowboy

 

I believe I know the reasoning prompting this proposal but it's the unintended consequences that have my attention.

 

I have received one message that advises me that Senior Duelist is not an age based category but rather a style category but this begs the question on why the category is now split by age and other style categories are not.

 

I'm sure there will be clarification as this goes forward, I was hoping that somebody had the information currently.

 

Many thanks for the responses, Ruff Cobb

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Except according to the proposed question a 72 year old shooter wanting to shoot with a two hand hold without regard to age or a dress code would actually be forced to shoot in the elder statesman category, right?

 

That is correct.

 

HOWEVER, there is also an agenda proposal to add an OPEN category:

 

3) Should an “OPEN” category be added with NO RESTRICTIONS regarding gender, age, shooting style or propellant?

This would provide a single category in which ANY shooter could register.

(Gunfighter-style competitors would have to comply with the current category regulations)

[Guest Calisto]

IMHO...

Open should mean open, including shooting style.

 

Protecting grown young men from their fathers and grandfathers seems a bit backward to me.

I like things the way they are and will pass on the changes.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

IMHO...

Open should mean open, including shooting style.

 

It does.

 

...

[Guest Calisto]

Cool.

I like the open category but I'll pass on changing the age restrictions.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

Cool.

I like the open category but I'll pass on changing the age restrictions.

IMHO is has nothing to do with protecting young men or women from their elders but to keep people from sand bagging or jumping categories once they find out they can't win their category. I heard about this proposal a few months ago and when I was told about it the intent was to keep people from doing what I mentioned above but you know how stuff can change from person to person only passing along what I was told.

 

KK

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

IMHO is has nothing to do with protecting young men or women from their elders but to keep people from sand bagging or jumping categories once they find out they can't win their category.

 

KK

Around here the Senior Duelist category is hotly contested and at major shoots many Senior aged folks shoot Duelist to have a chance to place. In other words, there are a lot more older Duelists than good younger Duelists. The proposed changes would not effect this phenomenon.

[Maddog McCoy SASS #5672]

This Rule change should not pass.

 

 

 

After 14 years of being a SASS member, I just reached 49er catagory. If I did not shoot B-western, you would be limiting me to just two catagories to shoot as I use adjustable sight Colts (New Frontiers)and I can not use them in anything other than B-western and age catagories.

 

 

Maddog McCoy

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Does anyone see this coming down the road - New categories....

Open Cowboy

Open Wrangler

Open 49'r

Open Senior

Open Silver Senior

Open Elder Statesman

 

And the beat goes on.