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Norinco '97


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Terrible

 

Send me an email with your email address and I will send you info from Coyote Cap about all the changes made to the Chinese 97's. You must understand that here in the States all but the earliest 97's carry the importing mark of IAC instead of Norinco.

 

Marlin

 

PS; From what I understood of Cap's article the serial # you list would be in the "better" range of Chinese 97's.

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My experience is that the 09 series is the first (only) year range I trust.

 

I've got a 02 and an 03, both are so bad they cannot be economically fixed. Your 02 would fall in the group that I don't buy.

 

The 09s are about $350 new, so unless you get a HECK of a deal, why bother with anything earlier in the Norinco/IAC line.

 

Good luck, GJ

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I have a Norinco 97 SN 01045XX which according to Coyote Cap is a 4th generation Norinco. It has a really nice figured walnut stock and forearm. I have not had any problems with it to date. It has the rounded pistol grip. The 5th generation supposedly has the squared pistol grip.

 

Siesta

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I would take Garrison Joes' info as the most useful. I bought a 09 to replace a very usable 05.

 

Still glad to send you the info from Cap that details all the changes made to the 97 through the years.

 

Marlin(Who personally shoots an 87)

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I have a Norinco, (CXC,P.R.C.*TTN,LN,CA), with a serial # of 000XXX . Where would this gun fall in the quality index rating ???

 

RBK

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I have a Norinco, (CXC,P.R.C.*TTN,LN,CA), with a serial # of 000XXX . Where would this gun fall in the quality index rating ???

 

RBK

 

Norinco Generations

 

Knowing what generation of Chinese built shotgun can be frustrating to say the least.

 

As I see it, there are only three or four people that can actually tell what generation you may have by the serial numbers. These people are the Shandong #1 plant manager, (Mr. Goa), the plant production supervisor, (Mr. Wang) and myself, and maybe the new plant owner, (Mr. Menn).

 

The reason I state this is because when I sent in recommended changes to a preceding "batch" (or shipment of 1,600 shotguns to Interstate Arms), in an effort to improve the quality and reliability of these shotguns for Interstate Arms Corp; the changes were made sometimes right in the middle of production, and therefore, one would have to know the serial number of the first gun in those major generational changes.

 

The only other way is to tear a whole lot of them apart in a warranty repair program, where the serial numbers are written down and logged into the B.A.T.F. in and out log book, and you have a stack of warranty and action job tickets which you can use to compare, to see almost exactly when those major changes became reality.

 

It is pretty obvious when you work on a lot of them, and you know just what to look for.

 

Having said that, there is a general (incorrect) assumption that the generational changes can be figured out by the (3) starting numbers of each serial number.

 

(Example): 998XXXX (1998/1999), 000XXXX (2000), 010XXXX (2001), 020XXXX (2002), 030XXXX (2003) and 040XXXX (2004). All these numbers tell you is what year the frame was cast, milled and serial numbered.

 

A 1st and 2nd. generation, yes, but subsequent generational changes were so numerous, that they were lumped together right in the middle of production, and this started in 2001 with serial numbers starting 010XXXX (7 digits), and continued until 0103200 (approx) as the 3rd. generation of modifications and improvements.

 

The 4th generation started just after those numbers and included (among other things) a major change to American Walnut stocks from Missouri.

 

So, if you have a serial number in the 0104500 range, it will have pretty nice walnut stocks, an upgraded carrier (at the cam pivot circle), an improved left extractor and a narrower, lightened firing pin (to prevent breakage from dry firing).

 

The 5th generation is far easier to identify because the pistol grip on the walnut butt stocks was changed to the (E) model flat (not rounded) design of the original (E) model Winchester 97.

 

Also, all "Trench Guns" are of the 5th generation and are actually pretty good guns, as the metallurgical tolerances were much more closely watched, and also, these guns had some more internal changes, to include another change to the firing pin, (to make it safer), and upgrade to the ejector, right extractor and an improved and much lighter and thinner mainspring.

.

.

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Now we get into the new stuff that I took over to china last year. These improvements are:

 

1. a new .028 ejector (Rockwell tested)

 

2. a new firing pin with an additional weight reduction cut-out (above the retaining pin) and new rebound spring.

 

3. a new mag tube spring and follower

 

4. a new and longer,(more threads) slide end cap and modified forearm wood to fit the new cap.

 

5. a re-designed carrier, at the "S" cam area on the left side of the carrier.

 

6. a re-designed bolt, at the point where the change to the carrier would hit the bolt (this has been milled away).

 

7. a new hammer design at the thumb spur.

 

8. a new fully adjustable mainspring.

 

These changes all constitute a 6th generation with serial numbers above 0306500 and these shotguns are of the I.A.C./S.D.-1 Import and they came in 20" (cyl. bore constriction) and 26" (modified constriction) barrel lengths and "standard" grade American Walnut stocks.

 

Then there are the "Special Edition" (WCSE models) and they have all the upgrades and then some extra "special" items.

 

Those items are shown clearly on the I.P.B. (Illustrated Parts Breakdown) that comes with each firearm.

 

I hope this clears up some of the mystery of the generational changes of the model 97's.

 

Coyote Cap

SASS Life #14184

 

 

Siesta

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Unfortunately, Siesta, the information from CC cuts off about at the 2004 time frame. That is about the time that all of the 8 improvements that he wanted went into the production line. Since then, lots of guns have been made, the factory was closed, a new factory was opened and teething problems straightened out in the new factory. Norinco name has been killed in the US, and IAC has the import business now. That gets us to the 09 series (frames from 2009), which is what MOST of the IACs that have been sold in the last three years have come from.

 

So, we still have lots of mystery about at what series did the guns start being "good". I believe we're getting better with each series that has been produced, but I just tore up a 09 series gun that reportedly has only 150 rounds through it (had it go down during Outlaw Trail in September), because it had a really badly machined action slide that came apart.

 

So, I believe it isn't too far out of line to say, the later the series the better, but I still would not trust a Chinese made gun right out of the box to run well. Each gun needs loving care and some improvement before it is really ready to "run like you stole it".

 

Good luck, GJ

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I have a Norinco, (CXC,P.R.C.*TTN,LN,CA), with a serial # of 000XXX . Where would this gun fall in the quality index rating ???

 

Corrections in green here.

This actually is a TTN-imported 97. Usually rated lower than the IAC/Norinco production. That is why it does not have a leading "year" series number. Some folks find these are good, some don't and ask for money back. Guess you will have to check yours out yourownself. Or, have Gunslinger or Goatneck Clem look at it - them's good Texan gunsmiths.

Makes it a very IFFY gun, in my book - a 2000 production run.

 

Good luck, GJ

 

 

Now, just because it is iffy, doesn't mean that the occasional sample from that series won't run great. It's just that a lot have already worn out and are not worth repairing. Compare that to the 70-100 years of (admittedly probably lighter) use that the original Winchesters have survived.

 

Were the Winnies better guns when built? Yep. Are they better guns now than a new IAC - now that is an interesting question.

 

GJ

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  • 5 weeks later...

The ones that CC reworked and marked as wcse are a whole different thing internally and barrel wise. Run very smoothly and mine has never balked. But please tell me when I can use my Coyote Cap LaserGraphic 93/97 12 Ga in a SASS cowboy or Wild Bunch competition!

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The ones that CC reworked and marked as wcse are a whole different thing internally and barrel wise. Run very smoothly and mine has never balked. But please tell me when I can use my Coyote Cap LaserGraphic 93/97 12 Ga in a SASS cowboy or Wild Bunch competition!

 

Based on the amount of ill-will that blew through SASS when the 93/97 gun was being engineered, them submitted for acceptance, then being rejected, I'd say, NEVER.

Sorry, but you probably could have found that out when you got it.

 

Good luck, GJ

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No RBK you do not have a Norinco. As GJ corrected himself in green, you have a TTN. The existence of this gun is the reason Steve will never be allowed to use his 93/97 in a SASS sanctioned state-level or above match. Lots of local clubs allow them. Ours does.

 

My spanky new IAC trench gun decided to crater on only its second match. Unfortunately that match was the Texas State WBAS Championship. And the trench version is supposed to be the latest and greatest IAC. So there ya go, Chinese trombone guns are spotty at best. Ya pays yer money and takes yer chances.

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Mine is an 03 model.

It was smooth when it came out of the box.

After some minor polishing of the internals, it got even smoother.

Bought it new in 2004, no problems.

 

Suggest that a buyer try a bunch of dummy shells before buying any 97, be it norinco, iac, cia, ttn. and even winchester.

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