el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 I have a question for you long range precision fans. I'm loading .45-70 on my Dillon 550B, and I am not satisfied with the crimp die provided by Dillon, which is a Redding 45/70 Govt ST V9. I have also tried a Lee 45/70-D1, which is supposed to provide a roll crimp. The Redding doesn't crimp enough, and the Lee, while it might work if modified, is too long. Apparently the Lee is spec'ed for the actual distance of case rim to case mouth, not taking into account the Dillon shell plate. So, those of you with Dillons out there who are serious about your long range accuracy, what do you use to crimp a .45-70? As an aside, I am already weighing each powder charge, loading light and using a trickler to get up to weight. Satisfied with my 405 grn bullets, and so on. I'm just looking to eliminate the next variable. Muchas gracias, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Throckmorton,23149 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 seems to me the Lee die would have to be made to allow for a shell holder,and the Dillon plate is no thicker than most;/some shell holders. hmmm. wonder what is really going on here?I'd call Lee and discuss this with them,just don't seem like the die is correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Howdy I don't use a Dillon, but I can tell you that most serious BPCR shooters do not crimp their bullets at all. They simply rely on neck tension. It's one thing if you are shooting a lever gun, where you have to work the rounds through the mechanism, and where bullets might jump forward from recoil, but with a single shot, neither of those things is an issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Driftwood has it. If it is a single shot rifle. I do not resize my brass, or do anything other than seat the bullet in a press. And then most times I can push the bullet in by hand. I use a hand held decapper and capper made for 45-70. As to Dillion unless yor using Dillion dies most dies are too long to get the full effect of the sizing and crimping dies. For my 44-40's I had the die cut .60" to insure it sized and handled the bottleneck correctly. The lee crimp die is screwed down as far as it will go and it just barely does the right crimp. For 45-70 BP loads I move the bullet out to here it makes contact with the rifling. I use a pusher to push the cartridge all the way in. It usually is out about 2 grease grooves. This prevents the bullet from jumping and acts as a crimp. BPCR is where learned this. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 For several reasons, Hornady dies are preferred in this caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Filling in some details: New Bullet in Old Case: * Neck size only the the case using a full length sizing die * Next die is the expander die so the ID of the case is 0.001 to 0.002 smaller than the bullet base diameter with a slight bell so 1/2 of the bullet base can be seated * Seating die to the proper COL and the die only crimps to remove the bell Same Bullet in Same Case * Just finger seat the bullet and run the seating die down to the proper COL you want ... WITH NO CRIMP * In some instances you may have to use the expander die but NO bell New Bullet and New Case: Full length size - Expander Die and Seating Die, again 0.001 to 0.002 neck tension with no crimp If shooting in a magazine fed rifle v a single shot ... Crimp for smokeless reloads only! Black powder reloads, no crimp because the bullet base is up against the wad on top of the powder column Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted October 10, 2011 Author Share Posted October 10, 2011 Thank you all for the suggestions! I am shooting a Pedersoli Sharps, so magazines (such as Boy's Life or Playboy) are not an issue. I have been extremely satisfied with the accuracy of this rifle with factory ammo, but a box of 20 .45-70's is now running more than $45 (as opposed to $15 when I bought the rifle). I've been reloading .38's with Win 231, and later Trail Boss, and APP FFFg, but never loaded a rifle round before. I am lucky enough to have a 200/300 yard range at the house to try out various loads. Any and all suggestions are welcome. Muchas gracias, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Howdy Again Buy a copy of Mike Venturino's Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West. Buffalo Rifle book Best primer there is on shooting the old single shots for accuracy. If you ain't putting Black Powder through that rifle yet, you should be. Nothing like it, that's all that goes through my Pedersoli Sharps and my Trapdoor. Mike's book is only about shooting the old guns with Black Powder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TN Mongo, SASS #61450 Posted October 10, 2011 Share Posted October 10, 2011 Driftwood nailed it, you shouldn't crimp for a Sharps. I also make my OAL just short enough to close the breech, weigh each powder charge, and I do a few other "things" to insure repeatable accuracy. Getting the best performance from these guns is a real science. You have to consider bullet design and weight not to mention finding the right powder. I put a lot of bullets down range before I came up with a load that worked well in my rifle. One thing that really made a difference for me was to spend the money for a good set of sights. Different clubs in our area shoot at different distances, so a set of good adjustable sights were a must. I wound up spending several hundred dollars on a better Lee Shaver front and rear sight. If you only shoot at one distance, you might be able to get by with what came on the gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted October 13, 2011 Share Posted October 13, 2011 Driftwood is DEAD ON!! You will find that the Pedersoli Sharps shoots real well with a 535 gr. Postell in front of a compressed load of Goex Cartridge or Swiss 1 1/2. Buffalo Arms has the compression die and vegetable wad for over the powder. A hunt of Mike's writings will give you the correct powder charge. The heavier bullets over 500 also give the best down range results. Don Gullo who is the owner is well known in BPCR circles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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