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Yank_MaChain

Taylor's Runnin Irons

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Just picked up a pair of Runnin Irons in 38/357 and having major problems shooting black powder. I took them to a match on Saturday and lucky for me I shot the warm up stage, because after the first shot the cylinder locked up. I was able to wiggle the cylinder while pulling the hammer and got off the 5 rounds. Now time to shoot number two and exactly the same problem. I did installed a Wolf spring kit prior to the match and they dry fire just perfectly. Funny thing was, I was talking to a Pard prior to shooting and he had purchased a deluxe pair about a month ago and is he having the same issue, but not quite as bad. I'm not really sure if his work slightly better because he is shooting smokeless or not. It really kind of acts like a high primer, but it is not. All my brass is starline, so cases shouldn't be the issue since they work fine in my other SAA's

 

I've looked them over and the timing is spot on. It does appear that the cylinder gap may be a little small but I can't imagine one shot causing a problem. I cleaned everything up and I ended up shooting about 15 rounds through each, just to see if it would get any better, but no.

 

Any guesses on this one?

 

Thanks!!

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Had that problem with the wife's Lightning's The cylinder gap wasn't big enuff to shoot BP!!

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Thanks for the input Jack...did the lightning's lock up after one shot?

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Cylinder gap, lack of one, can be a problem with BP loads. If it is too small, the powder fouling, which is usually crusty builds up on the back of the barrel and front of the cylinder. I would suggest taking it to a good pistolsmith and have it measured and corrected. It is a simple procedure; Brownells (and Midway I think) sell a barrel facing tool that will remove just a few thousanths off the back of the barrel. You won't even have to take it further apart than removing the cylinder.

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The problem is you are shooting soot through your guns. Come away from the dark side Luke.... and shoot the venerable smokeless. May the farce be with you! :)

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Thanks Dubious Don. I'm just wondering why both my Pard (who shoots "I can hardly bring myself to say it" smokeless) and I (who shoots "soot") would be having very similar problems. Could it be something other than the cylinder gap?

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Thanks for the input Jack...did the lightning's lock up after one shot?

Usually took 2-3 stages.

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Yank, talk with Joe West. He fixed some revolvers for a pard that tried to open the cylinder gap himself. PM me for that shooters info and he can tell ya the consequences if done the wrong way.

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Thanks Dirty Dan... Joe is currently working on one of my open tops that developed a timing problem. He also did an incredible and I mean incredible trigger job on my 1911. He is my next stop. I'm just curious if anyone else had a similar problem. I just hate to spend that kind of money on new guns and then send them to a smith to get them to even work at all. Just doesn't seem right to me.

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I just hate to spend that kind of money on new guns and then send them to a smith to get them to even work at all. Just doesn't seem right to me.

 

Wow, a little bit of reading here or talking with folks who shoot BP would have helped this situation, and your expectations, a lot.

1) There are no revolvers in our game that right out of the box run BP perfect (but Rugers are close)

2) BP needs a soft lube (using that?), a soft bullet (using that?) and lots of lube. Tell us about your loads.

3) If it locked on the first shot, you probably did not thoroughly clean out factory oils and greases (and replace with BP compatible lubes). Those petroleum-based lubes are not compatible with real black powder - that combination creates a hard fouling.

4) Most SAA type revolvers are made with a cylinder gap of 0.003 inch - perfect for smokeless, too tight for BP. Even with care and attention paid to your ammo. Most folks find BP happiness at about 0.007 or 8 on the gap. The gap is best cut with a facing tool, so that is usually a gunsmith job.

5) Having to clean the cylinder face and base pin after every third stage is not uncommon, even with revolvers properly set up.

6) Lubing the base pin area with Mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing grease usually helps a lot in keeping my BP revolvers running - it's a petroleum derived grease, but so synthetic that it does not harden up the fouling.

7) Clean with a proven BP solvent and lightly lube with a BP compatible oil when finished - I use P/A/M and Ballistol, but there are several combinations that work (PAM is hydrogen peroxide, rubbing alcohol and Murphy's Oil Soap, equal parts).

 

Good luck, welcome to the dark side, and yes, shooting BP takes a little WORK and practice. Shoot some practice sessions before going to major matches with BP!

 

GJ

 

All that said, it could be that you have a locking bolt problem - bolt not dropping to allow cylinder to rotate. Yes, guns do get out of Uberti and Pietta factories with problems like that.

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Thanks Dubious Don. I'm just wondering why both my Pard (who shoots "I can hardly bring myself to say it" smokeless) and I (who shoots "soot") would be having very similar problems. Could it be something other than the cylinder gap?

 

Sure could. Headspace is the next thing that comes to mind. If that is minimum, any buildup of crud, and this can even be caused by blowby from smokeless cartridges, that can also gum things up. Have your irons checked by a professional and go from there.

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For clarification:

Cylinder to barrel gap is in front of the cylinder.

 

Head space on a revolver is the gap between the cylinder and the back of the frame.

 

For some good info:

Cylinder gaps

 

And:

More Measurement Info

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Thanks Marauder! It was great shooting with you yesterday!

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Wow, a little bit of reading here

 

 

Thanks GJ... good advice!

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Guest talon macleod 29883

:rolleyes: To clarify Yank`s post. Mine came from the custom shop. I shot a match with them and had no problems. Last week at the Ambush I let two experienced shooters borrow them with my ammo for a try in side matches. They reported high primers in my ammo. After checking my ammo thoroughly I pulled about 50 rounds.I shot ten stages with no problem . Yesterday I shot OMV with the 50 and had no problem. I have not decided if I have a problem ,I will reload, clean and try again.Will post if any more issues.

Talon Macleod #29883

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Yank if Cody is doing the work on the deluxe running irons like he was/is the deluxe smokewagon he might be the pard to talk to.

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If they're new revolvers, locking up on the first shot, look at the firing pin aperture as well. If it's too large, the fired primer may be flowing into it, causing the primer to drag against the recoil shield. I doubt a small barrel/cylinder gap, or unlubed base pin, would cause it to bind after one shot.

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Yank if Cody is doing the work on the deluxe running irons like he was/is the deluxe smokewagon he might be the pard to talk to.

 

 

^^This^^

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As some one else suggested, call Taylors and tell them the problem. If Cody Connagher built these, I'm sure they will fix them.

 

shenny

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Guest talon macleod 29883
:rolleyes: While I was there when Yank had his problem and I had just 15 min. earlier told him of mine. I have not and will not decide that I have a problem until I shoot them again. I cleaned them today ,Checked the parts and at the moment satisfied . I will make ammo this week and have my QC techs check for any problems, Talon Macleod :P

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....

6) Lubing the base pin area with Mobil 1 synthetic wheel bearing grease usually helps a lot in keeping my BP revolvers running - it's a petroleum derived grease, but so synthetic that it does not harden up the fouling.

I use this grease on my 1875 Remmy's and it works better than anything else I've tried...even if I do catch some ribbing from the guys on the unloading table about the "red crap" on my guns :)

 

I also swipe some on the frame around the firing pin to keep the fowling soft back there or my pistols will feel like there are high primers if the fowling gets hard and reduces head space. Seems to be working for me so far.

 

Willy

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When I ordered mine from Taylor's they asked if i was shooting black powder or smokeless, as they are set for one or the other? Give them a call they were great to work with when i have had problums!

 

 

 

 

Just picked up a pair of Runnin Irons in 38/357 and having major problems shooting black powder. I took them to a match on Saturday and lucky for me I shot the warm up stage, because after the first shot the cylinder locked up. I was able to wiggle the cylinder while pulling the hammer and got off the 5 rounds. Now time to shoot number two and exactly the same problem. I did installed a Wolf spring kit prior to the match and they dry fire just perfectly. Funny thing was, I was talking to a Pard prior to shooting and he had purchased a deluxe pair about a month ago and is he having the same issue, but not quite as bad. I'm not really sure if his work slightly better because he is shooting smokeless or not. It really kind of acts like a high primer, but it is not. All my brass is starline, so cases shouldn't be the issue since they work fine in my other SAA's

 

I've looked them over and the timing is spot on. It does appear that the cylinder gap may be a little small but I can't imagine one shot causing a problem. I cleaned everything up and I ended up shooting about 15 rounds through each, just to see if it would get any better, but no.

 

Any guesses on this one?

 

Thanks!!

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