Chief Rick Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 10 pistol10 rifle 4 shotgun Procedure: • Pistols loaded with five rounds each and holstered. • Rifle loaded with ten rounds and staged on left shelf. • Open, empty shotgun staged on left shelf. The shooter starts behind left shelf with hands at high surrender. When ready, shooter says “READY”. At the beep retrieve rifle and engage the four rifle targets in a progressive sweep from either end. Make rifle safe. Retrieve shotgun and move to doorway. Engage the two stationary shotgun targets alternately twice each. Make shotgun safe – shotgun can be made safe on either shelf. Move to the right shelf/bars. Draw pistols according to category and engage the four pistol targets in a progressive sweep from either direction. Retrieve long guns and move to the unloading table. Shooter drew pistol and cocked it before I could say stop. Shooting at the pistol targets was not an option due to location. I had the shooter shoot her pistols (both) at the rifle targets due to the sweep required. Should I have let her just shoot one pistol at any target (dump), then moved on to rifle, shotgun, and finished with the one pistol on the appropriate targets even though the sweep would have been wrong? She finished the stage with 5 misses (all pistol while shooting at the rifle targets) & a P for shooting out of order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Wheeler Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I think she should have shot all cocked pistols at the rifle target, but only one or two depending on how many pistols were cocked, holster the pistols on a spent round. Then shoot the rest of the stage as required. Then only a P for pistol sequence and maybe one or two misses on rifle target with pistol or pistols. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Once cocked, the pistol must be fired (or made safe under RO supervision). In a perfect world, you would have her fire into the berm one pistol shot, pistol is then hammer down on a spent case and safe to leave shooter hand - reholster. then shoot as stage calls for. One miss, one P. Any pistol shots fired at rifle targets were misses no matter if they hit or not as they were no the correct target type. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lefty Wheeler Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Once cocked, the pistol must be fired (or made safe under RO supervision). In a perfect world, you would have her fire into the berm one pistol shot, pistol is then hammer down on a spent case and safe to leave shooter hand - reholster. then shoot as stage calls for. One miss, one P. Any pistol shots fired at rifle targets were misses no matter if they hit or not as they were no the correct target type. If a shooter shoots the wrong pistol targets they only get a P so why would they get a miss for hitting a rifle target. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Once cocked, the pistol must be fired (or made safe under RO supervision). In a perfect world, you would have her fire into the berm one pistol shot, pistol is then hammer down on a spent case and safe to leave shooter hand - reholster. then shoot as stage calls for. One miss, one P. Any pistol shots fired at rifle targets were misses no matter if they hit or not as they were no the correct target type. Fire on round, in the berm is fine. Hammer is now down on a spent round. No need to reholster. Move to correct position and finish pistol string. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Give shooter a reshoot cause ya gave her bad information, making it impossible to hit the rifle targets with the pistol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm assuming what you are really asking is what should you as the RO have done "to safely assist the shooter through the stage". When you saw the shooter draw and cock the first revolver, stop the shooter with a "cease fire" command. No rounds have gone down range at this point. Shooter does not own the stage (time) yet. Using an RO command, direct the shooter to fire that one round under the cocked hammer safely down range (into the dirt ten feet away is fine). Send shooter to unloading table to unload, then reload at loading table, and come back to the shooting position when ready and after they have reviewed the stage instructions. No penalties, no need to figure out hits, misses, etc. Benefit goes to the shooter. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dubious Don #56333 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 If the stage is already underway, as in the shooter has fired that first shot then you have them shoot wherever and holster. (berm is a good place) Then assist them is shooting the stage as correct as possible. When they get to the revolver string it is their choice at that point to reload or not to avoid a P (which they already earned) and a miss. If there had been no shot the RO should have assisted the shooter in making revolvers safe and either a restart right then OR, if that make safe procedure included firing the round under the hammer (No reason to do that but...) then just send'em through the unloading table and back around again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm assuming what you are really asking is what should you as the RO have done "to safely assist the shooter through the stage". When you saw the shooter draw and cock the first revolver, stop the shooter with a "cease fire" command. No rounds have gone down range at this point. Shooter does not own the stage (time) yet. Using an RO command, direct the shooter to fire that one round under the cocked hammer safely down range (into the dirt ten feet away is fine). Send shooter to unloading table to unload, then reload at loading table, and come back to the shooting position when ready and after they have reviewed the stage instructions. No penalties, no need to figure out hits, misses, etc. Benefit goes to the shooter. Good luck, GJ Re-read the OP Joe. I believe the rifle and SG had already been fired. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Fire one round, in the berm is fine. Hammer is now down on a spent round. No need to reholster. Move to correct position and finish pistol string. Fillmore Yep.. they already got the "P" they earned.. coulda just fired the round under the cocked hammer (holster or not) and move to the pistol sequence and start from there... Only 1 miss and a P then.. Rance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Re-read the OP Joe. I believe the rifle and SG had already been fired. Fillmore You sure about that? Not the way I read it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Shooter drew pistol and cocked it before I could say stop. Shooting at the pistol targets was not an option due to location. I had the shooter shoot her pistols (both) at the rifle targets due to the sweep required. Should I have let her just shoot one pistol at any target (dump), then moved on to rifle, shotgun, and finished with the one pistol on the appropriate targets even though the sweep would have been wrong. She finished the stage with 5 misses (all pistol while shooting at the rifle targets) & a P for shooting out of order. IF NO rounds had been fired, refer to Garrison Joe's post #7 (option to safely 'decock' at that point; reindex to empty chamber; and start over) IF any rounds (rifle or SG) had already been fired... T/O SHOULD: Direct the shooter to: Fire the ONE round under the hammer. = P (for shooting pistol from the wrong position). THEN either a) MOVE to the correct location and engage the pistol targets correctly OR Safely holster the revolver (hammer down on fired round); continue the stage as directed... (with the OPTION to replace the first round fired to negate the MISS at the wrong location) . Firing the pistols at rifle targets = a MISS for each round fired (whether HIT or not). NO OPTION to 'cease fire' and DECOCK the revolver once any rounds have gone downrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 Re-read the OP Joe. I believe the rifle and SG had already been fired. Fillmore mmmmm.. don't think so.. my reading is shooter approached the stage and drew pistol first... forgetting the rifle and shotgun That one shot earned a P for shooting guns out of order... Rance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 mmmmm.. don't think so.. my reading is shooter approached the stage and drew pistol first... forgetting the rifle and shotgun That one shot earned a P for shooting guns out of order... Rance I re-read. You seem to be correct. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 I'm assuming what you are really asking is what should you as the RO have done "to safely assist the shooter through the stage". When you saw the shooter draw and cock the first revolver, stop the shooter with a "cease fire" command. No rounds have gone down range at this point. Shooter does not own the stage (time) yet. Using an RO command, direct the shooter to fire that one round under the cocked hammer safely down range (into the dirt ten feet away is fine). Send shooter to unloading table to unload, then reload at loading table, and come back to the shooting position when ready and after they have reviewed the stage instructions. No penalties, no need to figure out hits, misses, etc. Benefit goes to the shooter. Good luck, GJ After thinking about it a time, I had the same thought GJ did, no round had gone downrange yet, shooter is entitled to a clean start, this case is kind of pushing that, but... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 After thinking about it a time, I had the same thought GJ did, no round had gone downrange yet, shooter is entitled to a clean start, this case is kind of pushing that, but... If no rounds have gone downrange, a restart would have been perfectly legitimate in this case ...as long as any action taken after stopping (either firing the round OR safely de-cocking) is done "...under the direct supervision of a stage officer." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted October 4, 2011 Share Posted October 4, 2011 What PWB said. Since no rounds had gone downrange, best thing would have been to stop the shooter. Fire that one round at the berm. Reload that 1 round and index back to the empty chamber. Restart the stage with no penalty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks all & especially PWB. Pistols were to have been shot last - she drew & cocked a pistol before any other actions after the beep. I have seen a very similar scenario happen before and , IIRC, it was said that after the hammer had been cocked the targets must be engaged. This one will be printd out and added to my SASS doscuments binder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chief Rick Posted October 4, 2011 Author Share Posted October 4, 2011 Thanks all & especially PWB. Pistols were to have been shot last - she drew & cocked a pistol before any other actions after the beep. I have seen a very similar scenario happen before and , IIRC, it was said that after the hammer had been cocked the targets must be engaged. This one will be printd out and added to my SASS doscuments binder. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If a shooter shoots the wrong pistol targets they only get a P so why would they get a miss for hitting a rifle target. Any shot from a pistol impacting on a rifle or sg target is a miss only, no P. Any shot from a rifle impacting on a pistol or sg is a miss only, no P. Any sg hit on a pistol or rifle target is a miss only, no P. Ye are still living in the dim dark distant past of SASS. The rules changed years ago. As for the OP, fire the cocked handgun. Instruct the shooter to open the loading gate. There is the empty chamber. Insert live round. Close gate. Hammer is down on fired case. Safe to proceed. Holster. Carry on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Any shot from a pistol impacting on a rifle or sg target is a miss only, no P. Any shot from a rifle impacting on a pistol or sg is a miss only, no P. Any sg hit on a pistol or rifle target is a miss only, no P. Ye are still living in the dim dark distant past of SASS. The rules changed years ago. As for the OP, fire the cocked handgun. Instruct the shooter to open the loading gate. There is the empty chamber. Insert live round. Close gate. Hammer is down on fired case. Safe to proceed. Holster. Carry on. In this case with no rounds having gone down range, tell the shooter to STOP before firing,,,,once they've stopped have them either fire the round downrange, off the clock, or better yet have them decock and make the revolver safe by putting the empty chamber under the hammer and then restart... there's not many shooters who cud carry off being told to reload a pistol on the clock....if they want on their own, fine, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 Huh? Fire the round. Open the gate. Toss in the round. Continue to march. Easy Peazy. I think most shooters can handle that little chore. If not, best go back to Play Dough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Jim Hancock Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 If the stage is already underway, as in the shooter has fired that first shot then you have them shoot wherever and holster. (berm is a good place) Then assist them is shooting the stage as correct as possible. When they get to the revolver string it is their choice at that point to reload or not to avoid a P (which they already earned) and a miss. If there had been no shot the RO should have assisted the shooter in making revolvers safe and either a restart right then OR, if that make safe procedure included firing the round under the hammer (No reason to do that but...) then just send'em through the unloading table and back around again. Ditto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noz Posted October 5, 2011 Share Posted October 5, 2011 I'm assuming what you are really asking is what should you as the RO have done "to safely assist the shooter through the stage". When you saw the shooter draw and cock the first revolver, stop the shooter with a "cease fire" command. No rounds have gone down range at this point. Shooter does not own the stage (time) yet. Using an RO command, direct the shooter to fire that one round under the cocked hammer safely down range (into the dirt ten feet away is fine). Send shooter to unloading table to unload, then reload at loading table, and come back to the shooting position when ready and after they have reviewed the stage instructions. No penalties, no need to figure out hits, misses, etc. Benefit goes to the shooter. Good luck, GJ I like this answer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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