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Oddnews SASS# 24779

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In the late 1990s, I was a match director for four years.

 

I shot CAS in SASS sanctioned events for 10 years from 1991 to 2001. My life took over for a while and I shot in only three or four matches between 2001 and 2010.

 

From about 2003 on, when I expressed an opinion on the Wire I was told my opinions didn't matter because I didn't shoot.

 

Thankfully, this year I've managed to shoot every month except June, since April. Tomorrow, I'm in a SASS sanctioned two= day shoot.

 

My opinion was, remains, and will continue to remain, that there should be at least one category in SASS/CAS that doesn't allow short-stroked rifles and simiilar non-period modifications.

 

I don't care if you agree or disagree. Is my opinion more valid than it was before? If so, why?

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Opinions are just that, unless you stir up either so much support or disgust that they become a movement. :lol:

 

Good luck, GJ

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In the late 1990s, I was a match director for four years.

 

I shot CAS in SASS sanctioned events for 10 years from 1991 to 2001. My life took over for a while and I shot in only three or four matches between 2001 and 2010.

 

From about 2003 on, when I expressed an opinion on the Wire I was told my opinions didn't matter because I didn't shoot.

 

Thankfully, this year I've managed to shoot every month except June, since April. Tomorrow, I'm in a SASS sanctioned two= day shoot.

 

My opinion was, remains, and will continue to remain, that there should be at least one category in SASS/CAS that doesn't allow short-stroked rifles and simiilar non-period modifications.

 

I don't care if you agree or disagree. Is my opinion more valid than it was before? If so, why?

 

 

I think it is. To mangle TR's famous quote, the credit goes not to the critic (assumed to watch from the sidelines) but to the man in the arena... You might well have argued before "well I used to shoot...", but remembrence is a fickle mistress. Those who shoot NOW do perhaps have a better "feel" for the game NOW, and yes, that makes their opinions a tad more valid (even if they remain unpopular :) :) :)

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I think it is. To mangle TR's famous quote, the credit goes not to the critic (assumed to watch from the sidelines) but to the man in the arena... You might well have argued before "well I used to shoot...", but remembrence is a fickle mistress. Those who shoot NOW do perhaps have a better "feel" for the game NOW, and yes, that makes their opinions a tad more valid (even if they remain unpopular :) :) :)

 

I was and had been "the man in the arena" before the online critiques of my opinion were expressed. I shoot NOW. I will shoot tomorrow. My desire for one "zero-non-periodo-modifications" class is no different now than it was in 2009. So I have a feel for the game "NOW" and I still have the same opinion. Why is my opinion more valuable now than it was before (if indeed it is)?

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Oddnews,

 

ifn we were sitting at the lunch table talking about this, I would ask you these questions:

 

1. for what purpose would be the intent?

 

2. could we also justify a category for short stroked rifles?

 

AND, ifn you answered with a YES for #2, I would also ask:

 

Could we justify a category for each generation of Short Stroke kits, 1 thru 4 and Super Short Strokes, etc...?

 

AND, could we also have a category for short stroked 66's vs, short stroked 73's vs. short stroked Marlins?

 

Just curious.

 

Oh yea, as the lovely Ms Allie stated: Welcome back to the pack and hope you get to shoot alot more often.

 

 

..........Widder

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I don't imagine that the shooters in the very first SASS shoots had the slick, short strokedrace guns in use today as the norm. When and why did that trend start???

 

I am very new to all this and readily admit I shoot very little with SASS and more with NCOWS, but this forum is so much more fun and educational. Since the topic was broached, I just thought I'd ask.

 

Thanks,

Mingo

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I was and had been "the man in the arena" before the online critiques of my opinion were expressed. I shoot NOW. I will shoot tomorrow. My desire for one "zero-non-periodo-modifications" class is no different now than it was in 2009. So I have a feel for the game "NOW" and I still have the same opinion. Why is my opinion more valuable now than it was before (if indeed it is)?

 

It's just an opinion. Until you can explain a practical way to enforce it I don't see it as anymore valuable now than it was then.

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First off, if you've read any of my posts, you know I don't give a rodent's rectum what everyone else shoots, I'm there to shoot the guns I like to shoot and to have fun doing it. I don't have the time, inclination, or energy to worry about someone else's gun. I'll leave that to the RO's, TO's and MD's. I fully understand that my choice of firearms will slow me down.

 

That out of the way, I'd rather listen to a quarterback than an armchair quarterback if we're talking football. I'd rather get driving lessons from an experienced driver than from someone that's never driven. So yes, if I cared what everyone else shot, then I would be more inclined to listen to your arguement now than before.

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Nothing has changed. The issue is that no one can define box stock or what gunsmithing was done back in the day, especially in an era (now and then) where gun companies are doing a lot of gunsmithing on guns before they ship. As you were told way back when, if you really want this category, trying to get it started on the Wire won't do it. Get your club and neighbor clubs to implement it. Get your state and regional mates to support it, then it might stand a chance of being recognized by the TGs. By then all the kinks will have been worked out. The last couple of years the TGs have not been in much of mood to add any cateogories so you have a real uphill battle.

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The CONTENT of the opinion and the "weight" given the man expressing it based on his participation are two distinct kettles of fish.

 

When asked "is the opinion of a current shooter more valid (carries more weight) than one of a former or non-shooter, I answer yes.

 

When asked to evaluate the same content, regardless of the source, i will consider the content a little more based on the source, but ultimately if I STILL disagree, oh well. But yes, I would give it more weight in considering the merits based on the "current shooter" status.

 

So, ON, if your opinion was only slightly less than able to garner sufficient support when you were an inactive shooter, theoretically your active status might help. BUT, if your opinion was "barking at the moon" before, then yer still unlikely to garner enough support to make a difference.

 

EVEN IF ya had lots of folks who agreed with ya, would that necessarily be the way of the future? MANY MILLIONS of Chinese eat with sticks....

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Howdy Oddnews, IMHO your opinion was just as valid then as it is now. While there was some of us that disagreed with need for such a category, we still offered advice and support on what it would really take to make it happen. The advice is still the same, yer gonna have to start it from the ground up, just like FCGF. That's where me and you split, you wanted the WB to just wave a wand and "presto" a stock category. My opinion remains the same, yer gonna have to start local and go from there. Glad yer shootin again, Good Luck :)

 

 

Jefro :ph34r: Relax-Enjoy

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No. Not one bit of difference. Then or now. It's just your opinion and your entitled to it. As long as you don't badger and bully folks, just 'cause you think SASS should be YOUR way, it's perfectly ok.

Remember though, SASS didn't start out period correct. Started out with Ruger Blackhawks and Fedoras. Look into NCOWS. Could be just your nich.

 

Coffinmaker

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From about 2003 on, when I expressed an opinion on the Wire I was told my opinions didn't matter because I didn't shoot.

 

Not Everyone told you that. Some people will jump on a guy who doesn't shoot much or has a low number. That doesn't mean the opinion and ideas are wrong or invalid but they seem to think it does. They should be ignored.

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I don't imagine that the shooters in the very first SASS shoots had the slick, short strokedrace guns in use today as the norm. When and why did that trend start???

 

I am very new to all this and readily admit I shoot very little with SASS and more with NCOWS, but this forum is so much more fun and educational. Since the topic was broached, I just thought I'd ask.

 

Thanks,

Mingo

 

Like any sport, competitors will seek an edge. Either through equipment, practice, new techniques or whatever. As SASS became more popular it was a natural progression just like in all the other shooting sports. Legal gun modifications are attractive to some folks and allow them to improve their performance. I'm not into it myself but I don't have a problem with that.

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Why don't you start with the specifications that would be used to describe the guns that didn't have "short strokes" and other non period modifications. I know that all of the lever guns of the period didn't have the same stroke, some were longer than others so that would be a good place to start.

 

Drifter

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I shot original '73 and '92 plus a Uberti '73 and Henry. I can tell you that the out-of-the-box Uberti ahas a stroke longer than my guns made in 1890 to 1925 that have had no alterations. A third-gen stroke kit puts the action much closer to the original.

Now that the distributors and manufacturers are offering pre-tuned rifles, this idea of non-modified guns gets very, very hazy.

I am happy to see many stages written with no dump targets and few multiple taps. One shot per target greatly levels the playing field.

The bets shooters still get in more and more effective practice.

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In the late 1990s, I was a match director for four years.

 

I shot CAS in SASS sanctioned events for 10 years from 1991 to 2001. My life took over for a while and I shot in only three or four matches between 2001 and 2010.

 

From about 2003 on, when I expressed an opinion on the Wire I was told my opinions didn't matter because I didn't shoot.

 

Thankfully, this year I've managed to shoot every month except June, since April. Tomorrow, I'm in a SASS sanctioned two= day shoot.

 

My opinion was, remains, and will continue to remain, that there should be at least one category in SASS/CAS that doesn't allow short-stroked rifles and simiilar non-period modifications.

 

I don't care if you agree or disagree. Is my opinion more valid than it was before? If so, why?

 

First. Glad to hear you are shooting again.

 

Don't think your opinion did not matter because you did not shoot. Atleast not for me.

 

What makes it not matter to me, is you feel strong about it. Harp on it on here.

But yet don't seem to do anything else to try and get it done.

 

As Duece said. Promote it. And NOT just on here.

 

See if you can even get it going at your LOCAL LEVEL club frist. As other categorys have done, and

got there started that way.

 

Talk with TG's and let them know how it is going at those local clubs.

Write the WB about how it is going at those local clubs.

 

Just do something beside talking about it on here.

 

If YOU. The person that seems to want it more than anyone. Can NOT, or will NOT get it going at your

very own LOCAL club. Then HOW do you think it is going to get put up for a vote to be a category??

 

The ball is in your court. CAN you?? WILL you?? Come up the rules, and get it started at YOUR local club????

 

Do that. Then let us know how it is going. Then it will matter. Until then????

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How about calling it a "Retro" category

 

Some of us like to drive our classic cars, even Model T's once in a while.

I think a club could announce that they are having a Retro class - and set up some requirements and see how it goes.

I could be a lot of fun, and some cowboys would get those old guns out of the safe for a fun day.

 

Just my $.02

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I don't necessarily share your opinion, but respect it ;)

 

 

G (who doesn't shoot as much as some pards here, but am a SASS member :D - that's gotta count for somethin' :lol: ) G ~ :FlagAm:

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Oddnews, Welcome back!

I too agree that SASS should have a category that does not permit short stroke kits and other mods.

But the question is how to limit the other mods. The short stroke kit is relatively easy.

It has to do with a simple measurement. It can be taken at the unloading table.

If it measures too short then a P is awarded to the shooter for shooting out of category (provided he entered the "stock" or "retro" category).

I would bet that something like 90% or more of the shooters in this sport can spot the short stroked kit just by watching it rack a few times.

So I don't think it would take an actual measurement.

 

As for whether folks back then said your opinions don't matter. Read the opinion thread that was on the sass wire earlier.

Opinions are like noses (I had another body part in mind) every one has one.

 

The only thing I ask and expect of others is that they permit me to have my own opinion.

My opinion is NOT wrong because anyone disagrees it is different plain and simple.

Convince me that your opinion is better with logic not insults.

 

Anyway Welcome back Oddnews,

 

Hacker

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Oddnews,

 

Glad to hear you're gettin' to shoot again. And, yes, being a competitor vs spectator does lead a tad bit more credence to voiced opinions. So too does being a "winner" vs a whiner. As I was told when I was looking to start a venue in TX, "...bring us 50 new members and we'll see about letting you use our range..." to, "...nope we don't have open dates to hold a new shooting sport NOBODY's ever heard of." Heard things like, "nope it don't sound safe..." (that from a club that shot bowling pins?), and "...we don't allow any sport that uses steel targets," and several variations of "...our peprmits doesn't (or only) allow(s) rifles/pistols/shotgun. But, I didn't give up... and there are now oppotunities to shoot every weekend of the year within a 110 mile radius of where I live. But, I'll tell you this much, when I do get a chance to shoot, I enjoy it so much more... I don't habe to load ammo for 3 shooters, load, un load and setup steel targets and stands, tear 'em down, load 'em back up and haul 'em back home, unload 'em and do all the promotin', carruin' flyers around to gun shops, etc. But, like anyone else who's started a CAS club, I didn't do it alone.

 

But I don't shoot much AND I have a fairly low SASS #, so you don't need to listen to me.

 

But, if you got a half an ear open, from the 1st day I showed up at a match, I had folks advising me how to modify my guns to be more competitive. "Stock guns?" My guns ain't been stock since the end of the first day at the 1st EOT I attended in 1986. The second day was a vast improvement, and I've never looked back. Even if the only mods done are to improve reliability, they're mods, no longer stock. Like "Flotsam" (that was funny AJ), I personally believe your idea isn't practicable.

 

But I don't shoot much AND I have a fairly low SASS #, so you don't need to listen to me.

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Oddnews,

 

Glad to hear you're gettin' to shoot again. And, yes, being a competitor vs spectator does lead a tad bit more credence to voiced opinions. So too does being a "winner" vs a whiner. As I was told when I was looking to start a venue in TX, "...bring us 50 new members and we'll see about letting you use our range..." to, "...nope we don't have open dates to hold a new shooting sport NOBODY's ever heard of." Heard things like, "nope it don't sound safe..." (that from a club that shot bowling pins?), and "...we don't allow any sport that uses steel targets," and several variations of "...our peprmits doesn't (or only) allow(s) rifles/pistols/shotgun. But, I didn't give up... and there are now oppotunities to shoot every weekend of the year within a 110 mile radius of where I live. But, I'll tell you this much, when I do get a chance to shoot, I enjoy it so much more... I don't habe to load ammo for 3 shooters, load, un load and setup steel targets and stands, tear 'em down, load 'em back up and haul 'em back home, unload 'em and do all the promotin', carruin' flyers around to gun shops, etc. But, like anyone else who's started a CAS club, I didn't do it alone.

 

But I don't shoot much AND I have a fairly low SASS #, so you don't need to listen to me.

 

But, if you got a half an ear open, from the 1st day I showed up at a match, I had folks advising me how to modify my guns to be more competitive. "Stock guns?" My guns ain't been stock since the end of the first day at the 1st EOT I attended in 1986. The second day was a vast improvement, and I've never looked back. Even if the only mods done are to improve reliability, they're mods, no longer stock. Like "Flotsam" (that was funny AJ), I personally believe your idea isn't practicable.

 

But I don't shoot much AND I have a fairly low SASS #, so you don't need to listen to me.

 

Thanks to all for the replies. I want to point out that in making the post, my issue was not to debate the merits of a class without short strokes and other non-period modifications. What I was raising was the issue of why it should matter if I shot last weekend, last month, or last year in the formultation of an opinion on the subject.

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