Finagler 6853 Life Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Does anyone know the serial number range when Winchester changed to accomodate 2 3/4" shells from 2 5/8? I'm looking at buying a 97 and if this is the older and shorter tube, that would affect my offer to buy. Any help? Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 My understanding, all 12 gauge 1897's were chambered 2 3/4", just the 16 and 20 gauge models were short-chambered until 1927. They were marked "Model 1897" on the slide, until 1912 then the mark was moved to the barrel as Model 97 Why don't you just put a 2 3/4 loaded round in the chamber and see for yourself PS: The actual chamber size was not 2 5/8. It was 2 9/16 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Stock factory chambers in the '97 were cut for 2 3/4 inch ammunition that was roll crimped. I always recommend the chamber and forcing cone be recut in '97s. Less chamber pressure and less felt recoil. Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 What Colorado Coffinmaker said. They were all marked 2 3/4in but are slightly short for modern shells. The pressures evidently don't raise since the shell can open enough with the beginning of the forcing cone, but folks do say they feel a difference in recoil with a little longer forcing cone. The standard forcing cone as about 1/2 inch, so with the slightly shorter chamber it may be only 3/8". So going to the longer 1 1/2" forcing cone apparently helps felt recoil a lot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olen Rugged Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Does anyone know the serial number range when Winchester changed to accomodate 2 3/4" shells from 2 5/8? I'm looking at buying a 97 and if this is the older and shorter tube, that would affect my offer to buy. Any help? Thanks The marking was not an issue until the introduction on the 3" shell. That was about 1930 or after #81279 or thereabouts. Olen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I've always heard that every '97 has the "short" chamber. We've got four originals dating form 1908 to 1952 and have shot standard factory loads in all of them for years. None of them have had the chambers or forcing cones cut. I've shot my standard chambered guns side by side with guns that have had the chamber/forcing cone cut using the same ammo and could feel no difference. Can anyone say placebo effect? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Finagler 6853 Life Posted September 23, 2011 Author Share Posted September 23, 2011 Thanks for all the input. You guys are great and I knew I could find it here. You learn something everyday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 Finagler, All 12 ga. 97's are said by Winchester to have 2-3/4 inch barrels, (although many specimines have slightly shorter measurements). However, the forcing cones are long enough that a plastic hull will lay in part way, but never reach the true bore diameter. Paper 2-3/4 inch hulls with folded crimps should not be used in these guns. Tests by many laboratories have proven that these guns develop NO MORE chamber pressure using plastic 2-3/4 inch shells, than they do using 2-1/2 inch shells. Even Winchester's Ammo labs did this testing and state that 2-3/4 inch shells DO NOT increase chamber pressures. Of interest to those who might want to pursue this, John Barsness published an article about this very subject in Handloader Magazine in the May-June 2005 issue, and published findings by the Winchester Ballistics Lab. Bottom line is that there is no danger in using standard plastic hull ammo in these guns. It's also a fact that elongating the forcing cones will indeed provide at least some relief from recoil, but that is true of any shotgun with the short and abrupt forcing comes, even with full length chambers. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 My understanding, all 12 gauge 1897's were chambered 2 3/4", just the 16 and 20 gauge models were short-chambered until 1927. They were marked "Model 1897" on the slide, until 1912 then the mark was moved to the barrel as Model 97 Why don't you just put a 2 3/4 loaded round in the chamber and see for yourself PS: The actual chamber size was not 2 5/8. It was 2 9/16 I do not think Winchester ever made any 20 gauge 97s. Ever. Did they??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olen Rugged Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 I do not think Winchester ever made any 20 gauge 97s. Ever. Did they??? A gunsmith on the web makes this claim: "At the turn of the century, Winchester manufactured 20 prototypes of their famous 1897 in 20 gauge. Due to the limited production, this caliber of 1897 has been unavailable to SASS shooters and Winchester collectors for a long time, until now. We are currently offering factory Winchester 1897's fully restored and re-barreled in 20 gauge. The 20 gauge '97 is available in any of our premium finishes, including color case-hardened receivers with slow-rust blued barrels." A solution looking for a problem... Olen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted September 23, 2011 Share Posted September 23, 2011 A gunsmith on the web makes this claim: "At the turn of the century, Winchester manufactured 20 prototypes of their famous 1897 in 20 gauge. Due to the limited production, this caliber of 1897 has been unavailable to SASS shooters and Winchester collectors for a long time, until now. We are currently offering factory Winchester 1897's fully restored and re-barreled in 20 gauge. The 20 gauge '97 is available in any of our premium finishes, including color case-hardened receivers with slow-rust blued barrels." A solution looking for a problem... Olen I'd love to have a 20 gauge 97 but it would be a big waste of money. SASS mandates 16 and 12 gauge pumps only. Since the port would still be 12 gauge size that itty bitty hull would fly right on in, hence the popularity of the 16s. And hence, the SASS prohibition on such a gamey device. Can you say competitive advantage? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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