.45 Colt vs .45 Schofield vs .45 Cowboy Special

[Badlands Beady]

What it boils down to is, Why are you in this game, and what do you consider fun?

 

My own reasons for settling on 45 Colt:

• It's arguably easier to find a given reproduction gun, both revolver and rifle, in 45 Colt than in any other caliber (the only "fun gun" I can think of that isn't in .45 Colt is the Man With No Name - otoh, the Wyatt Earp is only available in .45 Colt);
• Empty cases are easier to find in the grass;
• It's the only cartidge named after a beer;
• Rightly or wrongly, it's the iconic cartridge of the Old West;
• I just plain like it.
• At the ranges we shoot, "performance" is in the eye of the beholder; besides, it's more historically authentic to miss than to hit .

Having said that, I have a matched pair of S&W 2000 Schofields, so I also load that cartridge, as well as 45-70 and 45-70 rifle rounds for long distance rifle shooting.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Nay ,,,,, Da beer was named after da Cartridge .....

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Sure it was the cartridge...That puke called Colt 45 sounds like it was in reference to the 1911...maybe lol!

 

GG

GG

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Ya Know Ya Could Be right ,,,,,or Wrong .... Maybe it's named after da .45 ACP ,,,, Ya Know .45 Short an short on flavor ...

 

 

Mornin America ...

 

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I use 45 Colt in my revolvers and 45 ACP in my Colt 45

 

 

GG ~

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Shorty, if yer ever in Utah, look for nice lady with the ribbon from the senior games. She almost gave up shooting because of her atthritis. Her .38s were heavier than her .45s, but the .45 ammo was beatig her up. Problem solved with very light recoiling 45s, and she's still out there busting caps and grinning. I suspect there are a LOT of folks like her who love their .45s, but over time love the .45 CARTRIDGE less and less. I know there are many who realize that in a game with a timer, recoil is not your friend, but they figure that out after they buy .45s...... They could buy 38 specials and sleep the sleep of fools thinking they are authentic for the era..... But it is a GAME we play, and playing it as well as possible within the rules is what we ask of everyone. Nobody asked me when they made the rules. I just read em and worked within em.

[Nawlins Kid SASS #36107]

Three years ago I was talking to AJ at the Great Nor-easter regional about how the arthritis in my right hand was getting to the point that the recoil in the Schofield and my other pistol was really bothering me. I wanted to continue to shoot CC and I needed to get lighter pistols. I told AJ the recoil from the lighter 45 pistols would do me in. So he turned around grab some 45 specials and said try these. When I saw him the next day I told him I needed a bag of 500 for me and my better half. I shoot modern power with them and the accuracy at 10 yards is good.

 

Nawlins Kid

 

PS It was good visiting with you AJ at HR. Loco Poco Loco forgot to ask if you were going to the Mason -Dixon?

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

Shorty, if yer ever in Utah, look for nice lady with the ribbon from the senior games. She almost gave up shooting because of her atthritis. Her .38s were heavier than her .45s, but the .45 ammo was beatig her up. Problem solved with very light recoiling 45s, and she's still out there busting caps and grinning. I suspect there are a LOT of folks like her who love their .45s, but over time love the .45 CARTRIDGE less and less. I know there are many who realize that in a game with a timer, recoil is not your friend, but they figure that out after they buy .45s...... They could buy 38 specials and sleep the sleep of fools thinking they are authentic for the era..... But it is a GAME we play, and playing it as well as possible within the rules is what we ask of everyone. Nobody asked me when they made the rules. I just read em and worked within em.

 

 

I mostly agree with you;Of course it is just a game.I also have degenerative arthritis but still manage at 64 to shoot Duelist with 200 gr lead over 6.0 gr of Titegroup.IMO, when shooting Duelist, Recoil is your friend.Even with this load I shoot, recoil is negligible.

But I am digressing.Yes, I agree with the concept of game playing.It all just seemed so much simpler and more authentic shooting SASS 10 years ago.

 

Sorry if i upset anyone with my diatribe.

 

Yer Pard,

 

SS

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Shorty, there are a lot of us who agree with you. I wish there was just one category that required something more power-wise than the ability to get a bullet 25 yards downrange. For a while, Classic Cowboy, with its larger bore, had inherently more recoil. Unfortunately, in the last ten years or so folks have figured out how to make even the big bores poof-tink. One of the reasons I like Wild Bunch is the power factor. Classic Cowboy with Wild Bunch power factors would be really neat, but it will never happen.

 

And, for those reading this, please don't think that I am criticizing anyone who shoots any legal guns or loads, it would just be nice to have a category with more power required.

 

For a number of years now some of us in the midwest have been entering FCD with heavier loads and bp and recognizing the fastest big load shooters in Pale Rider, Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation etc.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I wish there was just one category that required something more power-wise than the ability to get a bullet 25 yards downrange. For a while, Classic Cowboy, with its larger bore, had inherently more recoil. Unfortunately, in the last ten years or so folks have figured out how to make even the big bores poof-tink. One of the reasons I like Wild Bunch is the power factor. Classic Cowboy with Wild Bunch power factors would be really neat, but it will never happen.Never say Never again.

 

For a number of years now some of us in the midwest have been entering FCD with heavier loads and bp and recognizing the fastest big load shooters in Pale Rider, Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation etc.

 

And a fine idea, BD! One many of us folks could get behind, I believe. Just install a minimum power factor for Classic Cowboy at some reasonable level (like 150).

 

Good luck, GJ

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Shorty, there are a lot of us who agree with you. I wish there was just one category that required something more power-wise than the ability to get a bullet 25 yards downrange. For a while, Classic Cowboy, with its larger bore, had inherently more recoil. Unfortunately, in the last ten years or so folks have figured out how to make even the big bores poof-tink. One of the reasons I like Wild Bunch is the power factor. Classic Cowboy with Wild Bunch power factors would be really neat, but it will never happen.

 

And, for those reading this, please don't think that I am criticizing anyone who shoots any legal guns or loads, it would just be nice to have a category with more power required.

 

For a number of years now some of us in the midwest have been entering FCD with heavier loads and bp and recognizing the fastest big load shooters in Pale Rider, Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation etc.

 

 

10-4

 

GG ~

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

For a number of years now some of us in the midwest have been entering FCD with heavier loads and bp and recognizing the fastest big load shooters in Pale Rider, Champeen of the Hillbilly Nation etc.

 

Who needs another category? If you want to load up a 45 Colt with a 250 grain bullet and all the Black Powder that will fit, just do it. That's what I've been doing for a long time now. I have always shot Duelist. When I moved to Black Powder, I continued to shoot Duelist.

[Tom Bullweed]

I shoot .45 Colt for smokeless and .45 CS for bp-sub loads. This makes it easy to keep them separate. I like the .45 CS for the efficiency and the safety: lower velocity for lower ricochets. Both are shot in Ruger OMV's.

[Marty Mudd]

Shorty , AJ and all,

I like the .45 CS in my Kirst Konversion '58 Remmies. Remingtons point better than Colts for me. Full house BP loads or APP beat on my knuckles pretty hard. Too many years of wrenching. .45 CS's still get plenty of smoke. Use 160 grain Buzzard Boolits, 3F Goex and everything is fine. For laughs; I may stick some 3F loaded .38 Short Colts in one of my Cimarron Lightnings for my left hand gun. Poof, Bang, Poof, Bang......Don't shoot FCGF with the Short Colts; just GF. They don't meet the smoke regs.

YMMV.

[Griff]

Interesting topic, quality answers, covering hyperbole, opinion, fact, fancy & conjecture. Not quite the "who, what, when, where & why" my writing teachers liked, but hey, this is "The Wire"! Since I've been involved, .38 Specials have dominated the game. And of those that I spoke to that played before I started, it remains the same; .38 Special to compete, .44-40 and .45 Colt for fun. The fact that with a little work & ingenuity, someone has came along and disrupted the status quo, provided more options for those that don't just follow the crowd, is a "good thing"!

 

Mostly tho', I'm just jealous as all get out that it wasn't me that thunk it up!!!!

 

Oh yea... I'm using the C45S as my WB rifle round. Hope to get the dern thing back from the machinist soon; so I can, in the words of Dusty Boddams, get to putting lipstick on the pig!

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Three years ago I was talking to AJ at the Great Nor-easter regional about how the arthritis in my right hand was getting to the point that the recoil in the Schofield and my other pistol was really bothering me. I wanted to continue to shoot CC and I needed to get lighter pistols. I told AJ the recoil from the lighter 45 pistols would do me in. So he turned around grab some 45 specials and said try these. When I saw him the next day I told him I needed a bag of 500 for me and my better half. I shoot modern power with them and the accuracy at 10 yards is good.

 

Nawlins Kid

 

PS It was good visiting with you AJ at HR. Loco Poco Loco forgot to ask if you were going to the Mason -Dixon?

 

 

As always Sam, I enjoyed hanging out with you and LPL. No Mason Dixon for me this year. I guess we'll cross paths next year somehere. Good luck.

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

Who needs another category? If you want to load up a 45 Colt with a 250 grain bullet and all the Black Powder that will fit, just do it. That's what I've been doing for a long time now. I have always shot Duelist. When I moved to Black Powder, I continued to shoot Duelist.

 

You miss my point-we're not asking for SASS or clubs to create another category-we just do our own thing in the context of FCD and come up with our own recognition. Officially, we're usually just entered in FCD. Having said that some events are starting to recognize these heavy load shooters.

 

I have gone on record numerous times suggesting that Classic be modified to big bp loads or, at least, a higher power factor but I realize my ideas are not universally popular.

[VICIOUS, SASS#8014]

Howdy .Get a lyman power lathe and cut the 45 colt brass to a length that you like.People always give you back your wierd length brass. Yes I cut my seating die shorter to fit the short brass.

[Cowboy Junky]

357, 38 spl, 38 LC & 38 SC……..38’s are better bumper stickers are available on request…..lol

[Mad Monte McCrae SASS #61622]

I don't get it..who the hell would want parity in a 45 colt with a 38 spl?Competitive edge..maybe, but so what?

 

I shoot 45 colt cartridges in my 45 Colts and 45 S&W in my Schofields.I care more about being true to the Old West than gaining a competitive edge by using a wimp 45 cartridge comparable to a 38.

 

Respectfully,

 

Sixgun Shorty SASS # 35717Ls

 

 

Sixgun Shorty, I fully agree with you on this. I really love my .45LC's that's why I shoot Classic Cowboy. I am now loading up some .45 S&W's for the daughter she didn't like the min load of Trailboss and a 200gr bullet. If you saw my post about being the SASS CEO for a day. I mentioned that I would change Classic Cowboy to only allow .40 and larger cartridges originally made prior to 1885.

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

That would include .44 Henry flat as well as Colts similar cartridge for the Open Top wouldn't it. Good thing this GAME is set up so everyone can play at their own level. It's just a GAME. Share toys and play nice. Wanting to exclude those who chose not to play your way .......... sorta not so nice.

 

Coffinmaker

 

PS: betcha you'd be right at home in Pale Rider

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

How bout .450 Adams, 13 grains of BP and a 225 grain bullet? Manly because it's OLDER than .45 Colt.....

[Sawed-Off]

I'm really pleased with the C45S. I originally bought them for my wife. She broke her strong side wrist a while back, so she shoots a 45 revolver for the slight weight advantage, but my usual loads had a little too much recoil for her. I just use the recommended load in the C45S and she loves it. I decided to try them one weekend recently and had one of my best matches ever. I've tried a pard's 250gn with less than the minimum load of Trail Boss in .45LC and they were good too. I'm leaning towards changing over to the C45S due to reduced running costs, however.

 

Well that's good news. We just put about 1200 POUNDS of em in the shed yesterday, and need a couple customers

 

When are you getting an export license?

 

Unfortunately, the fellow I used to ship them to me last time has closed his doors. I'd order another 2000 for myself in a heartbeat if I could get someone to ship them here at a reasonable price. I also had a few other people express interest in them, so I'm sure you'd get plenty of orders from here if it wasn't such a pain finding someone who'll ship them out of America. Myself and the owner of my local gun store would both buy the '73 carriers too, if we could get them here. Thanks for making such a good product!

[Cabalero Chuck]

Howdy .Get a lyman power lathe and cut the 45 colt brass to a length that you like.People always give you back your wierd length brass. Yes I cut my seating die shorter to fit the short brass.

 

I've got a notion that it isn't as easy as all that. The closer you get to the web at the base of the casing, the thicker the brass becomes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the Cowboy.45Special is newly engineered brass and NOT just shorter .45Colt. Same idea but not the same?

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

I've got a notion that it isn't as easy as all that. The closer you get to the web at the base of the casing, the thicker the brass becomes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the Cowboy.45Special is newly engineered brass and NOT just shorter .45Colt. Same idea but not the same?

 

Correct on both points.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I'm really pleased with the C45S. I originally bought them for my wife. She broke her strong side wrist a while back, so she shoots a 45 revolver for the slight weight advantage, but my usual loads had a little too much recoil for her. I just use the recommended load in the C45S and she loves it. I decided to try them one weekend recently and had one of my best matches ever. I've tried a pard's 250gn with less than the minimum load of Trail Boss in .45LC and they were good too. I'm leaning towards changing over to the C45S due to reduced running costs, however.

 

 

 

When are you getting an export license?

 

Unfortunately, the fellow I used to ship them to me last time has closed his doors. I'd order another 2000 for myself in a heartbeat if I could get someone to ship them here at a reasonable price. I also had a few other people express interest in them, so I'm sure you'd get plenty of orders from here if it wasn't such a pain finding someone who'll ship them out of America. Myself and the owner of my local gun store would both buy the '73 carriers too, if we could get them here. Thanks for making such a good product!

 

 

The US Dept of State is such a pain where pill won't reach, export licenses are not only very time-consuning but quite expensive, upward of $2000 and on the average 2 years IF they grant it. For an operation of small scale, it simply wouldn't make sense. The only viable option remains trans-shipment using a broker who specializes in international shipment of guns and ammunition. Several folks in various countries have done just that just as you have. I always ask "Is there somebody you deal with to buy guns and so forth from the US? Maybe they can help." I'm told that's how C45S got to Europe as well.....

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I've got a notion that it isn't as easy as all that. The closer you get to the web at the base of the casing, the thicker the brass becomes.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems that the Cowboy.45Special is newly engineered brass and NOT just shorter .45Colt. Same idea but not the same?

 

 

As Driftwood said, that is correct. While I prototyped the idea with about 1000 cases made from brand new Starline LONG COLT cases, using a Lyman case trimmer to cut them, it was a tedious process because brass is tapered, getting thicker as you go deeper into the case. My homemade case sorta worked, but ran rough in the press even after reaming..... So when the decidion was made to properly get this done, we re-engineered the INSIDE of the cases. I told em "give me a Colt case head, a colt case mouth with enough straight section to properly seat a 250 grain bullet without bulging the case, and the MIDDLE of the Long Colt case removed." That is what we did. New drawing punches were made to accomplish the proper taper inside.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

As Driftwood said, that is correct. While I prototyped the idea with about 1000 cases made from brand new Starline LONG COLT cases, using a Lyman case trimmer to cut them, it was a tedious process because brass is tapered, getting thicker as you go deeper into the case. My homemade case sorta worked, but ran rough in the press even after reaming..... So when the decidion was made to properly get this done, we re-engineered the INSIDE of the cases. I told em "give me a Colt case head, a colt case mouth with enough straight section to properly seat a 250 grain bullet without bulging the case, and the MIDDLE of the Long Colt case removed." That is what we did. New drawing punches were made to accomplish the proper taper inside.

 

y'know - I do want to try the C45S so I can get my wifey to shoot. Plus I understand that the ballistics are about the same at the 'original' 44 Henry - so a new carrier for the Uberti Henry seems the choice to get this done to get the 'feel' of what the 'gun you can load on Sunday and shoot all week' would feel like.

 

AJ, hope to do some business with you this winter

 

GG ~

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

Gunner,

 

It's a HOOT!! An absolute HOOT!!!! Stuffing 18 cartridges down a Henry is pure grins and giggles. Loaded full up though, a 24 inch He nry is a mite heavy. One of my Henrys will hold 18 in the magazine and one will hold 19. I haven't looked to see why 'cause I don't care. I figured after 17 it just didn't matter. Since I can load 10+ in my trapper it's all cake!!!!

Loved the match I shot that required 15 rounds of rifle and the stage instruction said "extra rounds may be added ar any time"

 

Coffinmaker

 

Ps: The C45S is a Win - Win goodie

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

17+1 of .45 ACP +P+ level 230 grain XTP rounds in the Widdermajic MARLIN is yer bonafide "Hillbilly Assault Rifle", just sayin....