First-time black powder shooter

[Guest mr_goodbomb]

Hello. I just picked up a Pietta 1858 New Army. My intention was to get a 45lc conversion, but so long as I have it, I might as well enjoy it.

 

I've read "how tos," and most make it seem pretty simple, but I wanted to be sure I had my info straight. I went to an auction today and happened to pick up some pyrodex, several containers of caps, and some accessories (namely a measure, from between 0-120 grains). So, I guess I need to pick up bullets (lead).

 

Do I need to use a wad? If not, and I go with grease, anything specific, or can I just use cheap generic grease? Never shot black powder before, this should be fun.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Welcome to the party.

Cap guns are just too much fun.

Here is a link to a primer on percussion guns:

Percussion Guns: A Primer

 

Here is a good cheep lube recipe: 60% toilet seal wax mixed with 40% crisco.

Mix by weight in a glass jar, set in a pan of boiling water until melted, stir well, and pour into a tin that you can put with your loading gear.

 

Good load:

25 grains powder, some cornmeal to fill the cylinder a bit, a .451 lead ball & grease over the ball.

 

--Dawg

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I have never found Pyrodex to be worth a hoot and think its only reason for existance is that it was the early substitute for real bp early on and thus got a foothold. For cap and ball I much prefer real bp but would not feel overly put out by having to use either APP or even Triple7(with reduced load), both actually do offer real advantages over bp in some instances, Pyrodex does not. In that Remmy I am happy with anywhere between 20 and 26grs of bp, some use more but thats beyond whats actually needed. A ten or twelve dollar set of LEE dippers make a great addition to the load bench and you can figure your charge with it. Make or buy an actual dipper specific for your decided on load and it will make things go super fast at the loading table, I use a powder flask with a charge spout thats right for my load. Balls are fine in 452 or 453 with some claiming to like swaging in Ruger sized 457s!!!! I have always used plain old Crisco even tho some say you can not here in the south due to it melting in the heat. So far I have been lucky and my Crisco hasnt heard that fact yet. Wads are just an added expense for transferring lube, might help reduce greasy fingers though? Primers are great for picking up on all the little tricks of the trade but there are really just a few hard and fast rules involving bp specific safety at the range.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968.

 

Back in those days it was standard procedure to cover the ball with a glob of Crisco. This accomplished two things. It helped prevent a chain fire by preventing any errant sparks from sneaking past a poorly sealed ball*, and it kept the powder fouling in the bore and on the front surface of the cylinder from drying out. When Black Powder fouling dries out it quickly fouls the rifling, ruining accuracy, and hardened fouling on the front of the cylinder can bind up the gun. Of course the problem with Crisco was that the hot gasses blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap always melted the Crisco in the next chamber, the one that would be next to fire. So instead of a nice thick layer of Crisco there was a thin runny layer of melted Crisco that did not do much of anything.

 

Then one day somebody invented Wonder Wads. Lubricated felt wads that you place between the powder and the ball. Once I discovered Wonder Wads I never put Crisco, or any other type of grease, on top of the ball again. The wad was thick enough that any errant sparks that managed to get past the ball were snuffed out before they reached the powder. And the lubricated felt wad scrubs out enough fouling from the bore with each shot that powder fouling never builds up enough in the bore to affect accuracy.

 

Wonder Wads are not made anymore, but these wads are basically the same thing.

 

Link

 

I don't shoot Cap & Ball much these days, but when I do, I put a wad between the ball and the powder. Keeps my 1860 Armys running for the entire match, no drop in accuracy, and no messy Crisco on my hands anymore.

 

*Please don't give me that business about all chain fires coming from poorly fitting caps. It can also happen if a ball is not properly sealed, if there is a flaw on the surface of the ball that does not form a complete seal in the chamber. Yes, I have experienced a chain fire, and it will wake you up if you were sleeping.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Howdy

 

I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968.

 

Back in those days it was standard procedure to cover the ball with a glob of Crisco. This accomplished two things. It helped prevent a chain fire by preventing any errant sparks from sneaking past a poorly sealed ball*, and it kept the powder fouling in the bore and on the front surface of the cylinder from drying out. When Black Powder fouling dries out it quickly fouls the rifling, ruining accuracy, and hardened fouling on the front of the cylinder can bind up the gun. Of course the problem with Crisco was that the hot gasses blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap always melted the Crisco in the next chamber, the one that would be next to fire. So instead of a nice thick layer of Crisco there was a thin runny layer of melted Crisco that did not do much of anything.

 

Then one day somebody invented Wonder Wads. Lubricated felt wads that you place between the powder and the ball. Once I discovered Wonder Wads I never put Crisco, or any other type of grease, on top of the ball again. The wad was thick enough that any errant sparks that managed to get past the ball were snuffed out before they reached the powder. And the lubricated felt wad scrubs out enough fouling from the bore with each shot that powder fouling never builds up enough in the bore to affect accuracy.

 

Wonder Wads are not made anymore, but these wads are basically the same thing.

 

Link

 

I don't shoot Cap & Ball much these days, but when I do, I put a wad between the ball and the powder. Keeps my 1860 Armys running for the entire match, no drop in accuracy, and no messy Crisco on my hands anymore.

 

*Please don't give me that business about all chain fires coming from poorly fitting caps. It can also happen if a ball is not properly sealed, if there is a flaw on the surface of the ball that does not form a complete seal in the chamber. Yes, I have experienced a chain fire, and it will wake you up if you were sleeping.

 

Really?

 

 

You can get 'Wonder Wads' here:

 

http://www.dixiegunw...roducts_id=3561

 

http://www.trackofth...x-wad-10-w&as=1

 

http://www.rmcoxyoke...r_wads_/228/240

 

GG ~

[Noz]

Howdy

 

I bought my first Cap & Ball revolver in 1968.

 

Back in those days it was standard procedure to cover the ball with a glob of Crisco. This accomplished two things. It helped prevent a chain fire by preventing any errant sparks from sneaking past a poorly sealed ball*, and it kept the powder fouling in the bore and on the front surface of the cylinder from drying out. When Black Powder fouling dries out it quickly fouls the rifling, ruining accuracy, and hardened fouling on the front of the cylinder can bind up the gun. Of course the problem with Crisco was that the hot gasses blasted out of the barrel/cylinder gap always melted the Crisco in the next chamber, the one that would be next to fire. So instead of a nice thick layer of Crisco there was a thin runny layer of melted Crisco that did not do much of anything.

 

Then one day somebody invented Wonder Wads. Lubricated felt wads that you place between the powder and the ball. Once I discovered Wonder Wads I never put Crisco, or any other type of grease, on top of the ball again. The wad was thick enough that any errant sparks that managed to get past the ball were snuffed out before they reached the powder. And the lubricated felt wad scrubs out enough fouling from the bore with each shot that powder fouling never builds up enough in the bore to affect accuracy.

 

Wonder Wads are not made anymore, but these wads are basically the same thing.

 

Link

 

I don't shoot Cap & Ball much these days, but when I do, I put a wad between the ball and the powder. Keeps my 1860 Armys running for the entire match, no drop in accuracy, and no messy Crisco on my hands anymore.

 

*Please don't give me that business about all chain fires coming from poorly fitting caps. It can also happen if a ball is not properly sealed, if there is a flaw on the surface of the ball that does not form a complete seal in the chamber. Yes, I have experienced a chain fire, and it will wake you up if you were sleeping.

 

+1 on everything he said

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

I used to use Crisco over the balls but as has been said it can be a little thin so now I make little pea sized balls from my BP lube and smash them over the top of the balls. Much higher melting temp and much less messy. I can run 5 stages easily and clean-up is no different than my cartridge BP pistols, no buildup in the barrels.

[Chantry]

I am using 25 grains of 2F Triple 777 in my Pietta 1858's with good results although I find the .454 diameter balls to fit more properly.

 

Here is a very good link that I learned quite a lot from:

 

http://www.curtrich.com/frontiersmen.html

[Bodine]

I have to use .457s in my stainless '58 to get good groups.

 

Pyrodex...well, ummm, use it if you want but when you compare it real BP I don't think you'll need to hear anything anybody else says.

 

I use Goex 3f in all my guns, even my .58 smoothbore flintlock. 2f is "good enough" but 3f gets a faster burn and good consistent accuracy for me. I have done the snow-test and paper test with all my BP guns to see what the best load is for each one. That's where you shoot over a sheet of butcher paper to see how much powder is being wasted out of the muzzle. Works in fresh snow too. you can adjust your loads up or down this way.

 

Love the Remingtons!!! You'll enjoy this alot I'll wager. I got my first revolver at Steal-yer-Dollar-City in Branson (Silver Dollar City) when I was 17. I bought a brass framed Colt clone Baby Dragoon 5 shot .31cal. I wore it out in about two years!

 

Have fun and be safe.Bodine

[Pico PIstolero]

Good advice from the group as usual. I tend to use Crisco, but I haven't shot my Navies in a match yet....(Frontier Cartridge is next, then on to Frontiersman). I picked up a roasting infuser, which is like a big syringe. I just fill it with Crisco and give each chamber a 'shot' (it doesn't hurt a bit). It isn't messy at all. Used a cheap plastic cake frosting bag, but it didn't work for long, then a cheap syringe...the one I have is beefy, has a metal frame and works great.

 

-Pico Pistolero

blog.picopistolero.com

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Really?

 

 

You can get 'Wonder Wads' here:

 

http://www.dixiegunw...roducts_id=3561

 

http://www.trackofth...x-wad-10-w&as=1

 

http://www.rmcoxyoke...r_wads_/228/240

 

Well, I'm glad to here you can get Wonder Wads again, but they were out of production for a while. Glad to hear they are back.

[Guest mr_goodbomb]

Thanks for all the posts, guys. Lotsa good info here. I'll shoot the Pyrodex until it runs out and then grab something else. Crisco sounds like a mess and I'm OCD, so I'll have to find something else. Is there anything else makeshift you can use between the ball and powder? Felt, etc?

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Is there anything else makeshift you can use between the ball and powder? Felt, etc?

 

Howdy

 

Some guys punch wads out of felt. They buy some felt, then they soak it in an appropriate BP lube, then they punch it out themselves. You want the wad to be circular and you want it to fill up the chamber pretty well.

 

It's a lot easier to just buy the wads, you have been given several sources.

 

P.S. Take a look at the video that Bottom Dealing Mike posted today. He is showing how to load a 1851 Navy revolver. Mike does not use wads, he uses bits of lube over the ball. There are plenty of BP lubes on the market, Bore Butter is one. You can make your own too. I used to pan lube my BP bullets for cartridges with a mixture of about 50/50 Crisco and Beesewax. If you try this, heat it in a double boiler to mix it, it is highly flammable.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

There are plenty of BP lubes on the market, Bore Butter is one. You can make your own too. I used to pan lube my BP bullets for cartridges with a mixture of about 50/50 Crisco and Beesewax.

I tried Bore Butter and it works well, but found it to be messy in warm weather as it gets kind of runny. I use the above mentioned Crisco and beeswax and pour it into a small pan to cool. The depth of the mixture is a little less than 1/8".

 

Once cool, I pop out the slab, slice it into little squares and dump them in a butter tub like bits of peanut brittle. Even in warm weather you can pick up just one piece and smear it over the ball.

 

If you don't want to mess with lubes at all, you can load a ball on top of 777 and be good to go.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Crisco amd such works great...but since I have used the wonder wads I haven't looked back. The over-the-projectile grease method makes a mess of your holsters too- yuck!

 

GG

[Brasspounder]

There is another way to accomplish loading a percussion revolver that nobody but me seems to use,

except perhaps a couple pards from Australia who put me onto it..

 

Wonderwads or other "lubed wads" can contaminate powder charges

and cause trouble if not fired immediately.

 

WAXED felt wads are fine, but add another box, tin or some kind of container

to what you have to carry and add stuff you have to insert into the chambers of your revolvers.

 

I made a little tool that will squish some fairly stiff lube mix (beeswax/olive oil, 9 wax to 1 oil)

onto pistol balls in the form of sort of a "tail".

 

I make up 2/5 of the number of balls I need for a match with these grease tails on 'em and put them

into a small tin box with the other 3/5 of regular naked balls for my pistols.

 

then when loading, it goes like this:

 

For each revolver:

 

Charge 5 chambers with powder charge from flask with spout cut for proper amount (20 grains for my .36's),

then seat:

 

naked ball,

greased ball, with the lube DOWN ON the powder charge ( the stiff lube won't melt and contaminate it)

naked ball

greased ball

naked ball

 

This way there is always a greased and fully sealed ball next to the chamber being fired and so minimizes

or eliminates chances of a chain fire from that source. I've never had one in over 7 years of CAS shooting

while loading this way.

 

This cuts down on the number of lubed balls you need, plus still gives adequate lubrication to the bore

and cylinder front.

 

This method also reduces considerably the paraphernalia you have to carry with you at a match.

Just your powder flask, the tin of balls, and your capper. Load the pistols with the rammer on the gun,

that's what it is for. You don't need a stand or anything else.

 

Loading is quickly accomplished for two guns with a little practice, and can be

done at the ULT while watching others clear their guns,, once you get into good habits doing it so you

can pay adequate attention to the tasks at hand.

 

Bp

[John Boy]

Mr Goodbomb,here's my opinion on the subject of cap & ball revolvers.

 

Wads, naked or greased are not needed to prevent chain fires between cylinders. Turn the record over - if you want a wad behind the ball for lubing the bore then buy this ... dry felt wads and a jar of mutton tallow from Dixie Gun Works. Grease the wads by melting (not burning) the tallow, throw the wads in, spoon them out and press them on a paper towel. This tallow is by far the best lube going

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Howdy

 

Some guys punch wads out of felt. They buy some felt, then they soak it in an appropriate BP lube, then they punch it out themselves. You want the wad to be circular and you want it to fill up the chamber pretty well.

 

It's a lot easier to just buy the wads, you have been given several sources.

 

P.S. Take a look at the video that Bottom Dealing Mike posted today. He is showing how to load a 1851 Navy revolver. Mike does not use wads, he uses bits of lube over the ball. There are plenty of BP lubes on the market, Bore Butter is one. You can make your own too. I used to pan lube my BP bullets for cartridges with a mixture of about 50/50 Crisco and Beesewax. If you try this, heat it in a double boiler to mix it, it is highly flammable.

 

 

 

Yup - it's more cost effective...it works...and allows you the time to concentrate on the shootin' part of the sport (fun)..

 

 

 

GG ~

[rogerpjr]

Get rid of the Pyrodex (and all the other substitutes) and use the real stuff. Problem being that once you start breathing BP smoke you can't never get it out of your system. Been shooting about everything that shoots for over 50 years and I still keep going back to my charcoal burners for another fix.