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Utah Bob #35998

Crash at the Reno Air Races

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Looks like a bad one. Right close or on some spectators :(

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/story/2011-09-16/plane-crash-Reno/50436272/1

 

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.

Into the tables alongside the stands. Prayers up.

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It looks bad this is one report just in

The P-51 Mustang crashed at 1630 local time (2330 GMT) at the National Championship Air Races.

 

There are unconfirmed reports from an ABC News affiliate that 12 people are dead.

 

Local news broadcaster Kolo-TV said that at least six ambulances have left the airfield.

 

The Mustang, named "The Galloping Ghost", was flown by pilot Jimmy Leeward.

 

'Like a massacre'

Stephanie Kruse, a spokeswoman for the Regional Emergency Medical Service Authority, told AP news agency that 75 people had been injured, 25 of them critically, and another 25 seriously.

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It looks bad this is one report just in

 

Jimmy Leeward. I know his son Derick and my daughter was friends with Derick's daughter a few years ago (age 14 at the time). Sad day for many. Prayers up. From what I saw he came out of turn four, rolled wings level while pitching up. Standard emergency maneuver for altitude. But as the Mustang made wings level at a 45deg nose up attitude, it paused for a second parallel with the runway, and continued to roll right until inverted perpendicularity of the runway. Continued rolling right, nose down hitting the ground just feet IN FRONT of the grand stand traveling away from the stands cross ways of the "track". The engine was not at idle and sounded like it may have been at full power or at least cruise power. I would say that shrapnel from the impact is what killed spectators near the impact site.

 

As if he suffered a heart attack or maybe blacking out. Tragity nonetheless.

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Prayers up for all involved.

 

I know Dusty Balz was supposed to be at the races - has anyone heard from him?

 

Tull

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Most recent report I have seen; but there are a lot of conflicting reports and like any air crash you should distrust the reporting as what is reported in the first hours and days after a crash seldom bear much relation to the final NTSB report

 

Three people have died and scores are injured after an airplane crashed near a grandstand at an air race near Reno, Nevada, say medical officials.

 

The vintage World War II-era P-51 Mustang crashed at about 1630 local time (2330 GMT) at the National Championship Air Races.

 

There are unconfirmed reports that up to 12 people may have been killed.

 

Eyewitnesses said smoking debris and body parts were strewn across the airfield.

 

'Just pulverized'

Fifty-four people were taken to hospital, some in critical condition, Mike Houghton, head of the Reno Air Racing Association and CEO of the event.

 

Continue reading the main story

Start Quote

 

One guy was cut in half. There's arms and legs. One guy just said, 'hey, there's another foot over here'”

 

Dr Gerald Lent

Eyewitness

He said he did not have confirmed figures for fatalities.

 

The National Transportation Safety Board has taken over the airport to investigate the accident.

 

Mr Houghton said the Mustang had not been flying too close the ground prior to the crash.

 

He said that there appeared to be a "problem with the aircraft that caused it to go out of control".

 

"This is a very large incident, probably one of the largest this community has seen in decades," Stephanie Kruse, a spokeswoman for the Regional Emergency Medical Service Authority, told the Associated Press.

 

"The community is pulling together to try to deal with the scope of it. The hospitals have certainly geared up and staffed up to deal with it."

 

Kathy Carter, a spokeswoman for Renown Medical Center in Reno, said that two people had died, not including the pilot.

 

The Mustang, named The Galloping Ghost, was flown by well-known racing pilot Jimmy Leeward, 74.

 

Mr Houghton said that Leeward, from Ocala, Florida, was a real estate developer who had been racing planes since the mid-1970s.

 

He said that Leeward's medical records had been "in tip-top condition".

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No matter how you stack it this is a bad one. Families are ruined due to loss of loved one, people maimed and crippled for life and the loss of yet another WWII aircraft which can never be replaced. Auto race crashes usually don't endanger the crowd but aircraft add another dimenson altogether. My thoughts are entirely non-politicially correct.

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prayers up for the pilots family and those injured and the family of those killed....as in any activity there is always risk - to the pilot and spectactors alike.

 

 

But life can be taken at anytime...not to highjack this thread, but this happened the other day near where I used to live. .... she was just waiting at a stop light..

 

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-tree-crushes-woman-in-car,0,5000712.story

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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prayers up for the pilots family and those injured and the family of those killed....as in any activity there is always risk - to the pilot and spectactors alike.

 

 

But life can be taken at anytime...not to highjack this thread, but this happened the other day near where I used to live. .... she was just waiting at a stop light..

 

http://www.ktla.com/news/landing/ktla-tree-crushes-woman-in-car,0,5000712.story

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

I don't follow your comparsion. The event you post was a act of God takin gone life.

 

The other was the result of act of man taking with at least nine people killed, eight in critical condition (and some of them probably won't live), nine in serious condition, at least 54 people taken to hospital due to injuries and untold number maimed and crippled for life.

 

First one could not be foreseen or prevented.

 

The second well....like I said my thoughts are not PC on this one.

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I don't follow your comparsion. The event you post was a act of God takin gone life.

 

The other was the result of act of man taking with at least nine people killed, eight in critical condition (and some of them probably won't live), nine in serious condition, at least 54 people taken to hospital due to injuries and untold number maimed and crippled for life.

 

First one could not be foreseen or prevented.

 

The second well....like I said my thoughts are not PC on this one.

 

In attending any sporting event, there is a certain inherent risk of injury or death by merely being there.......in the wrong place at the wrong time. When one attends a sporting event, one assumes the risk. Whether it is a racing event, baseball game or lacrosse game........there is always the risk. It is not my intent to disrespect the dead, injured or heartbroken family and friends or to diminish the depth of this tragedy.

 

C.S.

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I don't follow your comparsion. The event you post was a act of God takin gone life.

 

The other was the result of act of man taking with at least nine people killed, eight in critical condition (and some of them probably won't live), nine in serious condition, at least 54 people taken to hospital due to injuries and untold number maimed and crippled for life.

 

First one could not be foreseen or prevented.

 

The second well....like I said my thoughts are not PC on this one.

 

Then you are blind...my point is that life can be taken anytime...via a risky event or a just living life.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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In attending any sporting event, there is a certain inherent risk of injury or death by merely being there.......in the wrong place at the wrong time. When one attends a sporting event, one assumes the risk. Whether it is a racing event, baseball game or lacrosse game........there is always the risk. It is not my intent to disrespect the dead, injured or heartbroken family and friends or to diminish the depth of this tragedy.

 

C.S.

 

Very true. But some common sense prevention reduces the chance for injuries, for example netting at hockey games and concrete barriers, netting and moving the stands back at auto racing. With airplanes flying at 500 mph as low as 50 feet above the ground the margin of error is so very slim.

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Then you are blind...my point is that life can be taken anytime...via a risky event or a just living life.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

 

Here we go again with the name calling (yawn)

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Very true. But some common sense prevention reduces the chance for injuries, for example netting at hockey games and concrete barriers, netting and moving the stands back at auto racing. With airplanes flying at 500 mph as low as 50 feet above the ground the margin of error is so very slim.

 

Indeed the margin IS small. But it's a normal risk of the activity.

 

When I think back on the famous flyers of my youth (Bevo Howard, Dick Schramm, and others) only Bob Hoover is still alive. He lost his "ticket" when he was in his late '70s or early '80s. That might be why his is still around but he might have gone right on without incident. Air show flying is a hazardous business.

 

A report this a.m. suggests structural failure in the tail section. Many of these aircraft are getting very long in the tooth and this has got to be a real concern. It would be a shame to see them grounded and retired to museums but that might be better than seeing them at the bottom of smoking holes.

 

A net at a hockey game is an easy "safety fix." How do you put a "net" over an airshow crowd?

 

When you go to one of these events you take a risk. The risks are reasonable, IMO.

 

SQQ

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Here we go again with the name calling (yawn)

 

:rolleyes:

 

There is no name calling...I was stating that you aren't seeing my point (or maybe seeing too much into it :lol: ). Nothing new...

 

man up ;)

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Prayers up for all involved.

 

I know Dusty Balz was supposed to be at the races - has anyone heard from him?

 

Tull

 

I am getting worried about Dusty. We should have heard from him by now.

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Guys, take your piss'n match to PM's, PLEASE :angry:

We have a cowboy shooter who is MIA from the Reno Airshow :(

Lets find him.....

Respectfully,

LG

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Guys, take your piss'n match to PM's, PLEASE :angry:

We have a cowboy shooter who is MIA from the Reno Airshow :(

Lets find him.....

Respectfully,

LG

 

 

YES! - much more importantly Dusty's whereabouts are of concern and prayers out for him...:unsure:

 

Isn't there a pard out there (or here) that has his number or way to contact his home?? Someone know his real name?? (not saying it needs to be shared here, but maybe that can help in finding him)

 

BTW:

 

Why didn't you PM ?...Thank you for your contribution to the pissing match! :angry:

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I am getting worried about Dusty. We should have heard from him by now.

 

It's hoped that he is attending to the urgent matter at hand pard....hopefully he is ok...

 

The list 'released' of those killed is so far::(

 

— Jimmy Leeward, 74, of Ocala, Fla. He was piloting the P-51 Mustang when it went out of control and crashed. He was a movie stunt pilot with years of experience in air racing.

 

— Greg Morcom, 47, of Washington state was with four family members and attending the show for the first time. Ron Morcom Jr. of Everett, Wash., told the Seattle Post-Intelligencer that his brother was killed instantly when the plane crashed.

 

— Michael Wogan, 22, of Scottsdale, Ariz., suffered from muscular dystrophy and was sitting with his father, Bill Wogan, in an area for wheelchairs at the air show's VIP boxes — near where investigators say the World War II-era plane crashed. Bill Wogan was seriously injured.

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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GG, Little touchy today :lol:

Sorry to say, but it looks like the total is now 9.

SO HEART BREAKING.

The only reason my wife and I were not there, was because she had to work. We go almost evey year.

Where the P-51 hit, we have sat in that area before.....

Scary!

Respectfully,

LG

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GG, Little touchy today :lol:

Sorry to say, but it looks like the total is now 9.

SO HEART BREAKING.

The only reason my wife and I were not there, was because she had to work. We go almost evey year.

Where the P-51 hit, we have sat in that area before.....

Scary!

Respectfully,

LG

 

Sorry - I guess we are all concerned and a bit 'touchy' on this~ Dusty definately is on the mind...

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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I was a little worried about this crash...My youngest girl was suppose to go for the races...I was not sure if she was there or not...Dropped a email to her on Friday, hoping for an answer on Saturday...No answer, called London after wife went to work...She answered...I felt much better...She said they decided not to go...Too tired from chasing polar bears...As long as she answered I was happy...

 

Texas Lizard

 

Even though she is 26, I still worry...

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Guest Lunarphase

I also heard an aileron may have detached from aircraft. Ailerons can be used to generate a rolling motion for an aircraft. I believe pre-impact photos show detached part.

Not offical, but what some are saying.

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I'll feel a lot better when Dusty checks in. :unsure:

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A report this a.m. suggests structural failure in the tail section. Many of these aircraft are getting very long in the tooth and this has got to be a real concern. It would be a shame to see them grounded and retired to museums but that might be better than seeing them at the bottom of smoking holes.

 

A net at a hockey game is an easy "safety fix." How do you put a "net" over an airshow crowd?

 

When you go to one of these events you take a risk. The risks are reasonable, IMO.

 

SQQ

 

SQQ,

 

You have tactfully summarized my non-pc thoughts. It has been a long time since WWII and it takes deep pockets to keep rebuilding these warbirds. And then to push them to their limits. As a big WWII history buff it is disappointing to see these irreplaceable airplanes destroyed one by one. They lost the B-17 Liberty Belle this summer due to fire on just a routine flight.

 

It seems like there are frequent crashes at airshows. I guess they have been lucky that they have crashed away from the crowd.

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OK, so ya'll made me a member of your family (like-it-or-not) when ya looked after me during my little attack, so if folks was able to get ahold of me/my missus as quick as ya done, don't soembody have contact info for Dusty???

 

I don't do much prayin but my thoughts are with those that needs strength.

 

Hope to hear that this pard is well and good real soon.

 

Bodine

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OK, so ya'll made me a member of your family (like-it-or-not) when ya looked after me during my little attack, so if folks was able to get ahold of me/my missus as quick as ya done, don't soembody have contact info for Dusty???

 

I don't do much prayin but my thoughts are with those that needs strength.

 

Hope to hear that this pard is well and good real soon.

 

Bodine

 

Anything from anyone yet??

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Heard from Wimpy who has a couple who are good friends with Dusty and his wife that Dusty had planned on going to the show, but then, after the show, had to head back to Chicago and other places for business. He said he is sure they (the couple) would have heard from Dusty's wife if anything bad had happened.

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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There is a photo of the plane taken a fraction of a sec before impact that clearly shows a missing trim tab on one of the elevators and if these were electric or hydraulic then that could have been the result of RunAway Trim Tab which in turn could have wrecked the pitch control causing the extreme pitch up and then pitch down. of course this sort of speculation will be replaced by the facts when the NTSB makes its final report the vast number of photos that they are collecting will be one asset as will (if it survived impact) the memory chips of the cockpit video camera

 

and of course there is the predictable talk of placing an age limit on pilots of unlimited class race planes even though the pilot had passed all his medical checks with a clean bill of health

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One article I read claimed the plane had been radically modified for speed. The entire tail section was part of the modification.

 

Anyhow, hope Dusty is busy with business and checks in soon.

 

Bodine

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There is a photo of the plane taken a fraction of a sec before impact that clearly shows a missing trim tab on one of the elevators and if these were electric or hydraulic then that could have been the result of RunAway Trim Tab which in turn could have wrecked the pitch control causing the extreme pitch up and then pitch down. of course this sort of speculation will be replaced by the facts when the NTSB makes its final report the vast number of photos that they are collecting will be one asset as will (if it survived impact) the memory chips of the cockpit video camera

 

and of course there is the predictable talk of placing an age limit on pilots of unlimited class race planes even though the pilot had passed all his medical checks with a clean bill of health

The trim tabs on the P-51 are manual as are the rest of the flight controls. A cable connected to a wheel in the cockpit sets the trim. Runaway trim is generally associated with an autopilot system that has malfunctioned, or more commonly, mismanaged by the pilot.

 

A trim tab is nothing more than an aid to the pilot to help balance control forces which makes the plane easier to fly. The loss of a tab by itself would not make an airplane uncontrollable if the pilot is on top of his game. It's entirely possible there was some larger catastrophic failure in the tail.

 

What's noteworthy about this aircraft is 5 feet of each wing had been removed as well as a significant amount of aileron. This would make the plane more of a handful to fly than its unmodified counterparts as its stability has been significantly altered. Like a NASCAR racer, a plane like this flies on the edge of catastrophe. One little hiccup and things can go to hell in a hurry.

 

Gonna take awhile to sort this all out.

 

BTW, 4 people of one family from my town who were there have each lost a limb in this accident. The patriarch of the family is still missing.

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Yup I thought that might be the case but one article I read said the tail controls were also much modified and that perhaps electric trim or hydraulic trim was a component of the modifications with all the areo mods a runaway to full pitch up might have exceeded the strength of the pilot to overcome it (I know on normal cert aircraft that can not happen but these race planes are classed as experimental

 

But I am happy to bow to your experience; in my 6500 hrs of flying the only ex military craft I have more than a few min of stick time(and none were high-performance fighters) on are the AT6, the Cessna T-50 bobcat I learned multi in, and the PT 17 Stearman I learned primary aerobatics in the later... and all 3 were a very long time ago in the 60s

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