1897 Winchester

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

I just got one last week. A take down model made in 1912 with a 2 9/16's inch chamber , 32 inch barrel and full choke. Bluing is maybe 40% with some pitting on the outside but the bore is excellent. The action locks up like a bank vault. The take down block had a little play but a friend showed me how i could tighten it with the screw in the block.

 

That done. I proceeded to order a couple of flats of 2 1/2 inch shells. and for the interim, cut down 100 cases and made up some 1 ounce loads at less than 2 3/4 dram level and roll crimped them over an over shot card.

 

I am still undecided as to whether I should have the chamber re cut to accept 2 3/4 inch shells or leave it original.

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

I just got one last week. A take down model made in 1912 with a 2 9/16's inch chamber , 32 inch barrel and full choke. Bluing is maybe 40% with some pitting on the outside but the bore is excellent. The action locks up like a bank vault. The take down block had a little play but a friend showed me how i could tighten it with the screw in the block.

 

That done. I proceeded to order a couple of flats of 2 1/2 inch shells. and for the interim, cut down 100 cases and made up some 1 ounce loads at less than 2 3/4 dram level and roll crimped them over an over shot card.

 

I am still undecided as to whether I should have the chamber re cut to accept 2 3/4 inch shells or leave it original.

Have it re-cut will help with recoil.

 

KK

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

KK,

 

Recoil has never been an issue. I look at it as a nearly 100 year old piece of history. All Original with matching serial numbers.....

[Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L]

KK,

 

Recoil has never been an issue. I look at it as a nearly 100 year old piece of history. All Original with matching serial numbers.....

I can understand you thoughts but 1897's are very plentiful and unless they are in pristine condition they really have no collector value, unless rare models or 90-100 original codition, if it wasn't for CAS they still would only be worth 75-100 dollars, but if historical value is also you concern then don't cut it and have fun.

 

KK

[Colorado Coffinmaker]

I'm with KK on this one. There were over a million '97s made and there are still tens of thousands of 'em in the back of closets. The only value to a '97 is to/with this game. If it wern't for us, pristine '97s would still go for a 100 bucks.

Historical value only applies when you can tie the gun to a specific "person of note." Without "provenance" you just have an old gun.

If you don't want to cut the barrel, I do recommend you have the chamber and forcing cone re-cut. You may not be the "last" person to own the gun and the reduction in chamber pressure and felt recoil is worth it.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Ream it, sez I.

[Lead Ringer]

If your really going to shot it a lot, having the forcing cone extended would be the easiest. Saves on ammo cost and recoil. I don't think it would effect the value, because I don't know if any body could tell? Or even ever look?

[Throckmorton,23149]

yep,ream her out,and cut her down,imho

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

I have two '97. One with a 20" bbl, the other with a 30". Both are takedowns and both are unmodified with 2-5/8" chambers.

 

Generally speaking, I run 2-1/2" all brass shells through them, or Winchester AA's that I have cut back to 2-5/8" with an overshot card in them held in place by a roll crimp. I have found this is easier, and less of a hassle, than having the chambers changed. But that's just me.

 

Heck, I do the same thing with my 1887, but it get the all brass 2.5's exclusively.

[Sagerider]

Smokepole, this is really just a personal preference issue. I have a 97 in 16 ga with a 2 9/16 inch chamber which I did not have lengthened. I feed it 2 1/2 inch brass Magtech shotshells and have loads of fun. I'm getting ready to do the same thing with an old 12 ga SXS. Just waiting for the wad order to arrive before loading the brass Magtechs. Good shooting. Sagerider.

[Awful Close]

I cut my barrel and now I regret it.

Bought a Chinese copy and use it for SASS.

Dam, I miss that Full Choke at dove season, hits were DRAMATIC.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

SS

 

Carry it down to a good smith , have the chamber recut , and run it . If you want a short bbl ,Please consider getting one theat has already been cut or a clone .

 

CB

[SlicLee SASS #16638 Life]

The actual length should be 2 5/8. It should take a good gsmith a short time to make is 2 3/4s

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Does it have the metal buttplate? No matter, I would cut the stock to fit a pad and the barrel to 18.25" and get a spare ejector.

[Willy Whiskers]

Love my 97. found it in a pawn shop and it didn't even work. Had it completly referbished including the pitting on the barrel. Got some heat from the "purists" about ruining such a find gun (mine is ca. 1937), but I wanted it to shoot every weekend and not hang out over the fireplace. WW

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Ream it, cut it and shoot it. Enjoy.

 

Who ya saving it for anyway?

[Marauder SASS #13056]

Yup, we've discussed this a few times.

 

All 97's have a chamber of "2 3/4 inches" but measure just a little bit short of 2 3/4 inch for modern shells. So to be on the safe side, for limiting wear, it is better to use lighter loads or if you shoot a lot, slightly increase chamber length.But you can safely shoot lighter 2 3/4 inch shells in them.

 

Many years ago, many of us on the old CAS-L (before the SASS wire) measured a variety of 97's and they varied a little but were all just a little short of the modern chamber specs.

 

But Rio Brazo Kid just sent me a 2005 article from Handloader Magazine written by John Baarsness. It mentioned that the measurements of the forcing cone and chamber of even a 2.5 inch chamber would still would allow a modern 2.75 shell to open adequately so that pressures were not increased. In 1964 they tested Eley 2.75 shells in a 2.5 inch and 2.75 inch chambers and found the pressures and velocities to be the same. More recently, Winchester ran a similar test using more modern pressure gauges and found the same result.

 

The reason is that the diameter of the wad (.710) added to the .02 to .025 wall of the plastic cartridge gives a total width of about .750, which is still less than the .790 needed to fully open. And the forcing cone is still larger than that for even a 2.5 inch chamber. (Now the star crimp does offer very slight resistance if you try to manually put the wad it, but when fired, the crimp easily gives way for the wad.)

 

That all was sorta new information for me, but ti makes sense. Still, I lengthened the chamber and forcing cones on my old 97's. And my perceived recoil was a little less. But they say recoil is not a good indication of pressure.

 

So the summary is that you don't have to change it if you don't want to.

 

But the main cause of wear on the 97 is that "hell for stout" hammer spring. You can significantly lighten that by loosening or even removing the hammer tension screw. That helps keep the hammer lighter, which pushes up the bolt and wears the frame and bolt of the gun.

[Sergeant Smokepole #29248L]

I shot 3 rounds of trap today with made up 2.5 inch shells that were roll crimped. I shot 20, 22, and 25. I test fired some 2 3/4 inch shells loaded with the same powder/wad/shot weight. The only difference was that the 2 1/2 inch were roll crimped and the 2 3/4 inch shells were star crimp-ed. The 2 3/4 inchers had a slightly heavier recoil.

 

 

I think I am going to have the chamber opened up as making those 2 1/2 inch shells take forever.

[Mongo Jay, 36648]

Well, I've got 15 or so. Kinda got a soft spot for them. Only wish they could talk!!!!!

Mongo Jay