McCandless Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Taken from real-life... Stage is written: 1st pistol at station one 2 shotgun targets at station 1 2nd pistol at station 2 2 shotgun targets at station 2 rifle at station 3 2 shotgun targets at station 3 After engaging pistol targets and holstering at station 1, shooter fires 1 shotgun round ( a hit) and then the shotgun breaks, and becomes a giant paperweight. Shooter declares a malfunction, grounds shotgun as per RO's instructions, shoots the rest of the stage without engaging shotgun targets, no rifle or pistol misses. Calls predictably range from: "5 misses", to "5 misses and a P", to "5 misses and a failure to engage", to "5 misses a P and a failure to engage." Not a great stage to have at a major match, no matter which way. Since the shooter was/is a slow, somewhat hobbled, overweight, Frontiersman No matter what the call, he's still gonna end up on the last page of the score sheet. Anyways, How would you call it... McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Looks like a broke shotgun and 5 misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 My answer is 5 misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 no brainer, 5 misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Five misses (unfired rounds). Misses cannot cause a "P". "Failure to engage" only applies to NON-shooting situations. "Spirit of the Game" wouldn't apply either... (unless the shooter broke his shotgun ON PURPOSE and there is some advantage to taking 25 seconds in penalties) Suggest sending the RO's (and any shooters who came up with something other than 5 misses) back to "school". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I say 5 misses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Yup, 5 misses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Oso, SASS #57788L Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 if 2 "misses" make you a bigamist, would 5 "misses" make you a polygamist? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 if 2 "misses" make you a bigamist, would 5 "misses" make you a polygamist? Wouldn't 5 make you a quintagamist? Or maybe a pentagamist? My head hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Train Robber 13659 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Could another shooter have handed the shooter in question his shotgun to use ? thanks, Train Robber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 if 2 "misses" make you a bigamist, would 5 "misses" make you a polygamist? ........ I think it'd make him a massokissed ..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sheriff Oso, SASS #57788L Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 ........ I think it'd make him a massokissed ..... It may be time to move this to The Saloon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Could another shooter have handed the shooter in question his shotgun to use ? thanks, Train Robber Nope, the shooter is pretty much on their own after the clock. For example, the rules say that if the shooter forgot their shotgun shells, it is illegal for the timer (or anyone else) to give shotgun shells to the shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Could another shooter have handed the shooter in question his shotgun to use ? thanks, Train Robber There is a rule that someone can not hand the shooter ammo, following the same logic I would say no, another shooter could not hand him a shotgun. Under the clock, on the firing line is not the time to be quicking handing off guns in my opinion. I had my shotgun fall apart on me before a 4 shotgun target string to finish up a stage at a regional, my choices were to try and put the shotgun together and finish the string, or take the four misses. I threw my hands in the air and said "I'm done" Now that I am more experienced, both with CAS and that shotgun, I might try to put it back together and finish up just out of stubbornness, doubt it would change the time much though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Widder, SASS #59054 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I once had 5 misses and they called me a Gigolo! Frankly, I resembled that remark. ..........Widder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 It may be time to move this to The Saloon! ....... I agree, ... this 'ticular aspect of this thread is definately Saloon fodder .... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lethal Larry, SASS #58429 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Taken from real-life... Stage is written: 1st pistol at station one 2 shotgun targets at station 1 2nd pistol at station 2 2 shotgun targets at station 2 rifle at station 3 2 shotgun targets at station 3 After engaging pistol targets and holstering at station 1, shooter fires 1 shotgun round ( a hit) and then the shotgun breaks, and becomes a giant paperweight. Shooter declares a malfunction, grounds shotgun as per RO's instructions, shoots the rest of the stage without engaging shotgun targets, no rifle or pistol misses. Calls predictably range from: "5 misses", to "5 misses and a P", to "5 misses and a failure to engage", to "5 misses a P and a failure to engage." Not a great stage to have at a major match, no matter which way. Since the shooter was/is a slow, somewhat hobbled, overweight, Frontiersman No matter what the call, he's still gonna end up on the last page of the score sheet. Anyways, How would you call it... McC 5 misses only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 I once had 5 misses and they called me a Gigolo! Frankly, I resembled that remark. ..........Widder You must have some dough. 5 misses would be mighty expensive, even just to accumulate, not to mention keep! As for the stage, 5 misses, as PWB explained. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Shooter ended up with 5 misses and a P. Which, since his day had just turned to crap, he decided wasn't worth the effort of arguing over at a higher level. McC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 McCandles, what was shooter awarded the P for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJT Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 He better not have reveived an award cause this is a race and he never finished so......... Oh wait, different rant. 5 misses Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Shooter ended up with 5 misses and a P. Which, since his day had just turned to crap, he decided wasn't worth the effort of arguing over at a higher level. ... I would strongly advise that the shooter bring this thread to the attention of those who made the MIScall on this one...otherwise "they" will likely continue in their erroneous ways. Do the 'next shooter' a favor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 There is a rule that someone can not hand the shooter ammo, following the same logic I would say no, another shooter could not hand him a shotgun. Under the clock, on the firing line is not the time to be quicking handing off guns in my opinion. I had my shotgun fall apart on me before a 4 shotgun target string to finish up a stage at a regional, my choices were to try and put the shotgun together and finish the string, or take the four misses. I threw my hands in the air and said "I'm done" Now that I am more experienced, both with CAS and that shotgun, I might try to put it back together and finish up just out of stubbornness, doubt it would change the time much though. Sometimes I still try to work with the "broken" gun, but usually figure it may not be safe to do so. So unless it is obvious and simple, I set it down. If I jam my rifle with a lot in it, I may mess with it for a few seconds. But if the gun "falls apart" as some shotguns do, I figure it isn't worth the risk to shoot it without a full inspection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
McCandless Posted September 6, 2011 Author Share Posted September 6, 2011 Shotgun was a Stoeger that chose that time to part ways with it's pivot lug. P was given for the usual mis-applied "failure to engage targets in the proper order." This match is not one I usually attend. It did not have "berm marshals" or a real strong "posse marshal." Both would have helped tremendously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 Are you saying that NO ONE had the "BOOK" with'em That "P" is a joke That whole bunch, needs to go back to RO school Respectfully, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted September 6, 2011 Share Posted September 6, 2011 The problem is bring shooting penalty terms from other shooting sports and applying them to SASS. Failure to engage in SASS "Does NOT Apply" to shooting at targets. Quoting Pale Wolf Brunelle. "Failure to engage" only applies to NON-shooting situations. ------------ Oh and I would call, 5 misses. -----------= As for handing ammunition or another gun to the shooter. Once the buzzer goes off the shooter will get through the stage the best they can on their own. Clarification. Coaching is allowed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 A few ROs, a few spotters, a few shooters, a very few match directors, a few posse marshals just want to give shooters any penalties they can get by dishing out whether backed solidly by the rules or not. They just hate to see a shooter shoot a stage or match clean and whenever possible dish out the maximum penalties they can dream up. You only have to look at some "you make the calls" threads to see the philosophy. If anyone complains they are made to feel an outcast and these clubs seem to not be visitor friendly. I only make the mistake of shooting at these clubs once. Maybe we could help the sport to weed out these individuals and clubs by publishing a list of these folks and clubs. Could be downright exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Wouldn't 5 make you a quintagamist? Or maybe a pentagamist? My head hurts. Philly - How long have you lived in Colorado City AZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ah hell, I'd give the guy a SOG penalty on top of a P, 5 misses...some kind of failure to have a working gun penalty...and a MSV just for the hell of it....oh, and then push his sorry butt down and kick dirt in his/her face. It's truly amazing that there are folks out there that just don't know squat about the rules...so they act like the do and award random penalties. Grrrrrrrr... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted September 7, 2011 Share Posted September 7, 2011 Ah hell, I'd give the guy a SOG penalty on top of a P, 5 misses...some kind of failure to have a working gun penalty...and a MSV just for the hell of it....oh, and then push his sorry butt down and kick dirt in his/her face. It's truly amazing that there are folks out there that just don't know squat about the rules...so they act like the do and award random penalties. Grrrrrrrr... You forgot to tar and feather him and then run him out town on the rails :lol: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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