Another 73 thread

[Sawed-Off]

I've come to the end of the line with my Rossi 92. It's served me well, but I feel it's starting to hold me back. Everyone that finishes in front of me is using a 73, so it's time I take the plunge. I haven't owned one before, and most everyone in my small part of the world is using the 20" Short Rifle so I haven't got much chance to try other models before making my choice. I'm 90% certain I want to buy a ready to shoot pre-slicked rifle, which, as far as I know, puts me as a probable customer of either Pioneer Gun Works or Longhunter. I can really only afford to do this once, so I'd like to have everything I might want done straight up.

 

I'm wanting something on the lighter end as I share with my wife and she had a broken wrist a couple of years ago that still gives her some trouble. I'm trying to choose between the Taylor's 18.5" half octagonal, half round barrel with deluxe pistol grip stock, and the carbine. I like the idea of the checkered stock as we shoot mostly in a tropical environment - hot and damp - so extra grip would be good. I also think they look nice. On the other hand, the carbine is a touch lighter and looks to have a more forgiving buttstock. Someone told me that pistol grip stocks might not be SASS legal but I can't find mention of it in the rules. Does anyone have any reasons that I might choose one over the other?

 

In researching various options for 73s, a couple of posters have advocated positive slam down on .45 cal rifles (which I shoot). Is this a normal mod that gunsmiths make when slicking up people's rifles, or is it something that has to be specifically asked for? Have you had it done to your 73? Do PGW or LH do this work? I could ask them directly but they are busy business people, and we're just sitting at the saloon..

 

I notice both PGW and LH offer different options for replacing the leaf main spring. PGW offer their own coil main, and LH have the Slixspring main. Is one superior to the other?

 

Most of all, I want a reliable rifle that so long as I keep it clean, it keeps doing its job. I'm leaning towards the super short stroke kit on account of me having short fingers. I believe that means I have to work things a bit harder. Would I be better off with the standard short stroke kit? I believe both PGW and LH use the PGW short stroke kits.

 

Thanks very much.

 

Sawed-Off SASA#4090

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

Nothing wrong with a pistol grip on a rifle. Lots of shooters in this neck of the woods shoot the short rifle with the pistol grip. Checkering is always a good thing if things start to get slippery.

 

Regarding the carbine buttstock vs the crescent shaped buttstock that comes on a short rifle or a long rifle....what type of buttstock is on your '92? The crescent buttstock is the way Winchesters came in the rifle configuration. It is NOT meant to be mounted on the meaty part of the shoulder the way most shooters mount a rifle today. It is meant to be mounted a bit further outboard, so the crescent encircles the shoulder joint. The points of the crescent ARE NOT supposed to be pressed against flesh. If you are pressing the points against flesh, you are shooting it incorrectly. That's why lots and lots of shooters wind up putting some sort of lace on cover over the buttstock with a crescent butt. It can get uncomfortable shooting a crescent buttplate with the points digging into your shoulder under recoil. 45 Colt ain't gonna hurt too much, but try it with 45-70 sometime. Take a moment to examine how you are used to shooting your rifle and where you mount it. If you stand facing pretty much straight on to the target, with the butt against the meaty part of your shoulder, you will probably not be happy with a crescent shaped buttplate. All my CAS rifles, four of them, have crescent shaped buttplates, but I stand so that the points nestle around my shoulder joint. They do not touch flesh. This is a very secure way to shoot a rifle, the crescent keeps it in place and the butt never slips up or down. That's what they were designed for. But most fast shooters today stand facing the target more directly and this means the buttstock will be mounted on the fleshy part of the shoulder. If you are used to shooting the rifle standing straight on to the targets, you might be happier with a carbine buttstock. The curve is much less severe and it will not hurt when placed against the meaty part of the shoulder. On the other hand, if you really like the other features of the rifle, lots and lots of shooters wind up covering up the points of the buttplate in one fashion or another and are very happy with their rifles. Around these parts, the 20 inch short rifle with pistol grip, checkering and crescent buttplate is by far the most popular rifle with serious shooters. Most buy it in .357 Mag and shoot 38 Special for low recoil.

 

Regarding short strokes. The laws of physics tell us that the shorter the lever arm, the more force is required to do the same amount of work. This is inescapable, it is a law of physics. How that translates to short strokes is the shorter the stroke, the more force is required to accomplish the same amount of work. The work is working the action and cocking the main spring. So some shooters who have put in the shortest stroke available eventually changed it out for another set of links with a slightly longer stroke. They found that the shortest stroke required them to push harder on the lever than they really wanted to. Newton tells us that you either push a little bit further, with a bit less effort, or you push a little bit less far, with a bit more effort. That is an inescapable law of nature. Of course, a short stroke should go hand in hand with an excellent action job to reduce the friction required to work the lever as much as possible in the first place. Unfortunately this is something you must feel for yourself. There is no way to quantify what works best for you. See if there are any other shooters in your area whose guns you can try and see what theirs are like.

 

Regarding springs....personally I have never seen the point of substituting a coil spring and its related parts for a well tuned flat spring. There are plenty of good after market tuned springs out there. I like the ones Happy Trails sells, but he is a personal friend, so I am a little bit biased.

 

The Smith Shop

 

Regarding short barrels like 18.5", be sure you get it in writing that it will carry 10 rounds in the magazine. I see Taylors says it will on their websight, but you want to make sure before you get it shipped halfway around the world.

 

Regarding the carrier operating properly, any smith worth the name should be making sure that the carrier is timed properly when doing a complete action job. It does not hurt to ask and make sure.

 

A couple of other things worth considering: Happy Trails' Whisper Springs so that the stock springs do not grind down the cams on the lever. And Happy Trails' reduced force lever safety spring, so you don't have to squeeze the dickens out of the lever to disengage the lever safety. DO NOT allow anyone to talk you out of removing the safety, change out it's spring instead.

 

Hope this is of some help.

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

Hi Sawed Off,

I sent you a pm on our CASS site so check that out.

Cheers

Jackaroo

aka Ricochet

[Fairshake]

Driftwood, The Taylor's 1873 short rifle's are done by Cody Conagher whose wife works at Taylor's.

Sawed off let me say that I and many other cowboys have been down the road you are about to take. The information by Driftwood is dead on when he is talking about the short strokes. The newest and shortest stroke offered is very stiff to operate, so I would stay away from it.

Now, what I am about to say is my feelings and experience only and is only given for information. All the kits that are installed by many of the smiths including the ones you spoke of have aluminum carriers as opposed to the original brass one.I have nothing but respect for Jim Finch(Long Hunter) and Pioneer GW. I have purchased two sets of USFA revolvers from Jim.

Cody Conagher does not remove all your parts and exchange them. He uses the original parts and puts the brass carrier in a cnc machine and removes all the unnecessary weight and puts it back so that the rifle maintains it's original looks and feel when you lever it. He also modifies all the springs

so that the rifle works so slick it is a real joy to shoot. The stroke of his rifles is longer than the kits but the action to me is better. The only thing I did to mine was to add a set of slicsprings to replace the stock ones.

I have the Texas Brush Popper with the 18 1/2 inch barrel and love it. It swings and moves better than any rifle I have ever used. I installed a leather butt cover purchased from Long hunter along with the lever wrap.

It's very hard to recommend certain guns as you don't know the size of the person. The 1873 rifle is very heavy when compared to the 92 and that is one reason I chose mine. Cody was charging $250 I think and you may even order your rifle through him. I wish you luck in your search. PS Check and see why the brass carrier is best. Later David

[Buckshot Frank]

The like the lighter weight and size of the carbine. Since we only load 10, anything longer than the carbine is just extra length and weight.

 

The one negative of the carbine is the sights. I filed a wide V notch in the rear sight, but they still aren't great. Changing the front sight requires replacing the entire barrel band since the sight is attached to it. This costs a lot more than changing sights on the rifle, and there are less options (only one that I know of).

 

The 18.5" half round rifle sounds like it might be a good alternative.

[TN Mongo, SASS #61450]

I have 2 Cody Conagher 1873s, but before I purchased them, I tried several different tuned 73s owned by fellow shooters. There are several very good cowboy gunsmiths out there and they all do excellent work. But there are subtle differences in the tuned rifles they produce. Before you spend your hard earned money, make sure you get the one you really like. On another point, I like my pistol grip stock, but I bought an extra stock a cut it flat on the butt.

[Takoda Ray]

Sawd-off,

I just got into the cowboy action shooting scene so trust me when I tell you that I don't have any experience with a whole lot of cowboy action rifles.I rushed into it and went with what I thought I would like and be comfortable with.Since I am not a big guy and have short arms I went with the 1873 Trapper model with 18 inch barrel in 38 special/357 caliber and ordered from Cody Cohnager with his action job.I just have to say that I am very pleased with the rifle and his work.It holds 10 rounds of 38 specials.I haven't loaded any 357's in it to see if it holds ten though,never even thought to ask or really cared.The action is smooth and slick,very slick and I have no trouble working the action with my short little stubby fingers.The leather wrap that he puts on the rifle helps.I found the trapper fits me good and is balanced great for me and not muzzle heavy.My friend has a 1892 Rossi with a 20 inch barrel and that feels good as well so you may even like going to a little longer barrel with it's slightly longer sight plane.To me,it seemed like six or one half dozen of the other.I know it's not much help but just thought I'd throw my little experience out there for you.Have fun in your search.

Takoda Ray

[Jackaroo, # 29989]

Buckshot Frank,

You can buy a new barrel band and sight combination and a short rear Marbles sight for carbines from Longhunter Shooting or Pioneer Gun works. Cost you about $100.00 for both.

Check out their websites

Problem solved.

Hope this helps

Cheers

[Buckshot Frank]

Buckshot Frank,

You can buy a new barrel band and sight combination and a short rear Marbles sight for carbines from Longhunter Shooting or Pioneer Gun works. Cost you about $100.00 for both.

Check out their websites

Problem solved.

Hope this helps

Cheers

 

Yep- I've been meaning to order them from Longhunter, since I have already purchased a few things from him. I need to call him first though, because the front barrel band doesn't come with the screw (from Longhunter). I will need a replacement, and I don't want to have to place a second order from somewhere else just to get the screw. I figure that Longhunter probably has the screw; I just need to call to make sure. Otherwie, I guess that I'll have to order it from Pioneer.

[JD Trampas, SASS # 55781]

Your old screw will work with the new barrel band sight, I ordered the barrel sight from Pioneer and used my old screw, no problems. Did not like the post at all, also have a full buckhorn rear sight and like it also.

 

 

All for now JD Trampas

 

 

 

P.S. I also have 2 other 73's from Cody and like them, the carbine is my back up rifle now

[Buckshot Frank]

Your old screw will work with the new barrel band sight, I ordered the barrel sight from Pioneer and used my old screw, no problems.

 

The head of my old screw started to strip. I'm probably going to have to drill it out. Even if I get lucky and can remove it with an impact driver, I'll need a new screw.

[Sawed-Off]

Thank you everyone for taking the time to reply. Everything was really helpful and I think I could happily live with either of the two. I tried a friend's 20" Short Rifle again at yesterday's match and I reckon I can live with the crescent buttstock. It looks like I'm going to try and track down the Taylor's 18" 1/2 round, half octagon barrel Sporting Rifle with pistol grip. Such a pretty rifle.

[Tonopah]

Cody Conagher does a really fine job. Have used one of his rifles for six years. I'm sure there are other good ones out there also.

 

Tonopah