Renegade Roper Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I have read some of the recent posts on recoil reduction (and Maurader's site) and need some help with my Stoeger single trigger coach gun supreme 12 gauge in reducting the felt recoil. The stock has been shortened, we shoot Featherlites or their equivalent hand loaded, I do lean into the gun and keep my left foot forward, cheek on the stock, but I have a tendency to flinch and thus lift the gun and miss high left The flinching is very noticeable if a round does not go off or I dry fire after firing live (the flinching is probably due to rotator cuff surgery on both shoulders and lower back surgery with nerve damage in my legs). So I took the lace up Action recoil pad off my Stoeger to measure the bolt hole to order one of those mercury recoil reducers to see if this would help. What do I find but this huge square cut out in the stock and no butt plate at all! This gun had an action job done by a well known gunsmith when I first got it about 2 yrs ago and then about a year later it started firing both barrels at once so I sent it back to him and he "fixed it". I had emailed his secretary asking what he did to it but never got an answer. Anyway we also have a backup Stoeger standard model 12 gauge that I bought off a pard who said it also had an action job by this same gunsmith (but surprisingly the left chamber still has shells stick in it). So I took the butt plate off that and guess what no big square cut out only a small bolt hole. Now what little I know and have been reading about recoil the less weight in the stock the more recoil. That is why I was looking at adding the recoil reducer but with a big square cut out that makes it near impossible, especially since some of the posts say that if the mercury recoil reducer is not tightly fitted it won't work as well. So now I am thinking maybe I can now fill that whole cut out with lead shot in a plastic bag and that will be my added weight to reduce recoil, of course after I buy a new butt plate. Does anyone see any problems with that? Why would he cut that much out of my stock and then not put the butt plate back on? Here are the comparisons of the two stocks. My supreme is 4 5/8" from top to bottom (butt plate area), the square cut out is 1 1/4" from the top, 2 7/32" long and 1 7/32" from the bottom and 1/2" from the sides at the narrowest part. Putting a tape measure down inside the stock it is 4 3/4" long but there is still about 1 1/4" of bolt hole so if you go from the bolt head it is a total of 6" long to the butt plate area from the inside. The other Stoeger measures 4 11/16" at the butt plate area and from the top to the top of the hole is 2 5/16", the hole is 13/16", and from the bottom to the bottom of the hole is 1 9/16". The hole is 7/16" from the left side at the center of the hole and 1/2" from the right side. From the bolt head to the end of the stock (butt plate area) it is 6 3/4" long. My stock appears to be 3/4" shorter when placing the guns on top of each other which seems to correspond with the inside measurements of each. Hacker and a few others also suggested that lengthening the forcing cone will reduce felt recoil. What does this involve, how do you measure what it is now (I don't know if either gun has had that done) and how much longer do you make it? I have also tried the recoil pad that attaches to your clothing and all it does is move around and get in the way of mounting your rifle. Any other suggestions would be helpful. Thanks RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Just learn to shoot from the hip, no problem with recoil that way. Faster too. No need to aim a shotgun, just point it. As far as the forcing cones go, that's just an old wives tale and you'd be throwing money away, and be getting nothing in return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 As a first step I would suggest getting the thickest recoil pad that you can find, I think that will get you the biggest reduction in felt recoil. I am happy with the Kick Eez that I put on my 10 gauge. Adding weight and lengthening the forcing cones will each help a little, but a top of the line recoil pad is probably the best thing to try. http://www.midwayusa.com has a large section of recoil pads in their gunsmithng section Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rio Brazos Kid Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Plus 1 on a quality recoil pad. And a thick one. KickEez is probably the best, but there are the Limbsavers and the Pachmayr Decelerators which are also good. RBK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 RR, lengthening the forcing cone will help older shotguns made before the era of plastic shotcups. In the old days the forcing cone used for paper wads and paper shells was very short as the mechanics were different. With todays plastic shotcup most if not all modern manufactured shotguns already have longer forcing cones. A good gunsmith has the special tapering reamer to do the job. The gunsmith will also be able to see if it is necessary/possible to lengthen your shotguns forcing cones. Back to the butt stock. The mercury reducers need to be installed properly, that means they need to be restrained in a position. The axis of the reducer should/must be as close as possible to the bore line both in distance and in alignment. Making the shotgun heavier will help reduce recoil. As others have said a good recoil pad will also help make the recoil more palatable. A "grind to fit" recoil pad installation is a procedure that a gunsmith is better prepared to handle than the average gun owner. Gunsmiths perform lots of pad installs and have skills and or jigs to make the job happen professionally. If you are planning on getting a new recoil pad installed let the gunsmith help you select it. Last minute thought is that perhaps the buttstock is not shaped properly for you. Womenfolk need a different shaped buttstock. A shorter toeline may well be required. Again back to the gunsmith. Thats my nickels worth. Good luck. Hacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 First of all, the newer Stoeger have a large cutout inside the stock. This is how it comes from the factory. This is really an easy fix as far as filling in the extra space if you want to install a mercury recoil reducer. I personally use the C & H research mercury recoil suppressor. Material you need are Acraglas, wax paper, little grease/vaseline, T-handle for the suppressor (if you're gonna use the C/H suppressor), suppressor of your choice, a little time and patience. PM me with your email and I will email you back with how to do it. As far as butt plate, you can purchase an aftermarket plate from Brownells, item # 121-046-001, this you have to install yourself (it's really easy). Lengthening the focing cone needs a special forcing cone reaming tool and it's expensive if you have to buy it yourself, best have it done by a gunsmith. Hope this help a little. Good luck. I. M. Crossdraw Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colorado Coffinmaker Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Jacknife's comments are a bit mislead. Lengthening the forcing cones does in fact reduce felt recoil. Whether it will have full effect on your particular shotgun and only be answered after the forcing cones are looked at by a competent smith. I won't comment on the "shooting from the hip comments. The base problem with your Stoeger is the gun is too light to begin with. Felt recoil is a result of simple physics. The round fired will generate more "opposite reaction" in a lighter gun than a heavier one. It isn't just the weight of the stock. Since you have a great square hole in the butt stock, filling it with lead shot will help. Whether it will be enough for you personally, will only be answered after you try it. Addition of a nice thick recoil pad will also help. I like Pachmyre pads. Inch to an inch and a eighth thick. When the pad is mounted, the angle of the dangle needs to be about negative 5 degrees so the toe of the stock isn't digging into your shoulder. Crossdraw posted to you on the Mercury Suppressor. Also worth a try. Best of luck, Coffinmaker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Duct Tape Wrap the proper length C&H Reducer in as much duct tape as necessary to ensure a tight fit in the stock..pack any kind of material, ie, styrofoam, insulation material, anything that will take up the extra space and keep the reducer from moving.The reducer must be tight and not shift within the confines of the stock. In my 97's I have found the 5" C&H fits the hole in the stock perfectly, with a few wraps of duct tape.I have no experience with Stoegers. +1 on Kick Eze pads..Limbsaver recoil pads are also excellent..I have them on most of my hunting rifles and Kick Eze on most of my shotguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Renegade Roper Posted August 29, 2011 Author Share Posted August 29, 2011 Jacknife's comments are a bit mislead. Lengthening the forcing cones does in fact reduce felt recoil. Whether it will have full effect on your particular shotgun and only be answered after the forcing cones are looked at by a competent smith. I won't comment on the "shooting from the hip comments. The base problem with your Stoeger is the gun is too light to begin with. Felt recoil is a result of simple physics. The round fired will generate more "opposite reaction" in a lighter gun than a heavier one. It isn't just the weight of the stock. Since you have a great square hole in the butt stock, filling it with lead shot will help. Whether it will be enough for you personally, will only be answered after you try it. Addition of a nice thick recoil pad will also help. I like Pachmyre pads. Inch to an inch and a eighth thick. When the pad is mounted, the angle of the dangle needs to be about negative 5 degrees so the toe of the stock isn't digging into your shoulder. Crossdraw posted to you on the Mercury Suppressor. Also worth a try. Best of luck, Coffinmaker Thx, but how do you measure the "angle of the dangle" to find out what angle you have and to get a negative 5 degrees for the cant? RR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 RR, The angle that is referred to here is the angle from bore line to the butt. When viewed from the side as held normally, the pointed part of the buttstock is called the toe, the flat part that is roughly perpendicular to bore line is called the butt and other end of the butt is called the heel. The idea that Coffinmaker put forth is to bring the toe forwards by making the angle formed by boreline and butt to become more acute (less than 90 degrees) than it is currently. From the factory most guns are more or less 90 degrees give or take. A gun set for shooting aerial targets would be more like an obtuse angle (greater than 90 degrees). A gun set for shooting ground targets or a shooter that leans forward more needs the acute angle. Hope this helps. Again a gunsmith can do all this. Hacker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miss Cubbie Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Panhandle Cowgirl and I have found the easiest answer to the recoil problems with your shotgun....it's called the Old West-Buster and it is SASS legal. It is a recoil reducing system that REALLY takes the kick out of your shotgun. I had my Stoeger cut the proper length for me and the angle of the toe corrected, brass barstock added for weight and a new Kickeez pad done...it still kicked my butt even with lighter loads! I have since gotten a Browning SxS and had the Old West-Buster put on that one, too. I can shoot any type load and I never feel a thing! My shotgun has gone from being hated to being loved. I can shoot it as fast as I can pull the trigger twice....no re-acquiring the targets because the barrels don't rise. Do a Google search for "The Old West-Buster" and you'll find the help you're looking for. Other shooters who have tried my shotgun don't want to hand it back!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dances with Pit Bulls, SASS#26546 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 I don't know if this tale will help, but here goes. I once had this wife who decided she would join me in SASS. The only problem was her's with the shotgun recoil. Being a relative beginner to the sport I had chosen a Steoger 20 as my match shotgun. Instantly there was a problem sharing with the wife. First my Gunsmith suggested installing a recoil pad ($75.00). He then suggested installing a "dead mule" recoil suppressor ($50). Finally he drilled away much of the stock's wood and filled the various cavities with lead shot. Only then did she feel somewhat comfortable shooting it. Apparently to a woman size doesn't matter, but density and mass does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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