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Looking at the recent Midway ad I noticed that the same cartridge brand with the same bullet type can essentially be driven as fast as or faster out the Whelen with a heavier bullet than the '06. Since the whelen is based on the '06 case but necked up for larger and heavier bullets, how is this possible?

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Actually, the Whelen is not rated to higher pressures than the .30-06 if I am remembering correctly, the .30-06 is higher than the Whelen.

 

As for velocities, keep in mind that the .35 caliber bullet is larger in diameter than the .30 caliber bullet. That means that when comparing bullets of the same weight the .35 caliber has more volume to fill as the round goes down the barrel. More volume gives more room for expansion, more expansion gives more velocity at that bullet weight.

 

I don't think velocity for a given weight bullet is a good comparison between these rounds. The .30 is a small bore, the .35 is getting into the mid more range. When you compare typical bullet weights used in the two rounds (150-180 for the .30-06 and 200-250 for the Whelen) you see that the .30-06 can typically give higher velocities and slightly less drop at longer ranges.

 

 

That said, the .35 Whelen is a great round. I think it shines with heavier bullets, the 225 and 250 grains offerings to be more specific. The .35 Whelen doesn't need hyper velocity to work. With proper bullets at reasonable velocities it is a great performer.

 

But then again, the .30-06 is proven as well and the 200 and even 220 grain bullets that you can load in a .30-06 perform great at shorter ranges and at slower speeds.

 

Don't get me wrong, velocity is fine, but in some cases we have gotten a little obsessive with chasing higher velocity numbers and ignoring the facts on the ground. A good sized bullet at 2500 feet per second kills a lot of game, very well at reasonable ranges. In my opinion, super high velocity is really only needed if you are really trying to shoot at long ranges, which I would say is over 300 yards.

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So here's what I'm talking about - Hornady Superformance ammo: 30-06 165 gr 2960 ft/sec, 35 whelen 200 gr 2910 ft/sec; Nosler custom ammo 30-06 165 gr 2800 ft/sec, 35 whelen 225 gr 2725 ft/sec.

So, with the Hornady you get a 35 gr heavier bullet at a cost of only 50 ft/sec - almost negligible; and with the Nosler you get a 60 gr heavier bullet at a cost of only 75 ft/sec - again close to negligible.

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So here's what I'm talking about - Hornady Superformance ammo: 30-06 165 gr 2960 ft/sec, 35 whelen 200 gr 2910 ft/sec; Nosler custom ammo 30-06 165 gr 2800 ft/sec, 35 whelen 225 gr 2725 ft/sec.

So, with the Hornady you get a 35 gr heavier bullet at a cost of only 50 ft/sec - almost negligible; and with the Nosler you get a 60 gr heavier bullet at a cost of only 75 ft/sec - again close to negligible.

 

 

Of course, we take those velocity claims with a pinch of salt. But otherwise this is the beauty of larger bores!

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And the recoil will be commensurately higher with the bullet weight if gun weight and velocities stay the same....

 

There comes a point where what we NEED once we get away from the load books is often NOT what the books say is wonderful. Unless yer shooting big, tough critters or at extreme ranges MOST shooters can't manage humane kills at anyway.....

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You can see the same "relative" velocities comparing the .260 Remington, 7mm-08 and .308. You can push the same weight bullet the same speed or even a little faster in .308 but you give up sectional density and aerodynamics.

 

All depends what you are trying to accomplish. Big game at short to medium ranges I'd take the .35 Whelen, all around cartridge at short, medium and long range I'll take the 30-06.

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I certainly like the 35 Whelen. My 700 BDL in that caliber is my favorite. I took a nice Mule Deer at a measured 300 yds with it in Montana. Used a forked tree as a rest, and the one shot just knocked him on his kester. The 35 Whelen can be loaded up or down effectively. Obviously brass is all you want for darned near free.... I just annealed a bunch of 30.06 brass and sized it up. It's a very good round, and performs very well. Varget poweder behind a 250gn works very well.

 

Snakebite

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Thanks to all for the discussion. I have both an '06 in a model 70 winchester and a whelen built up on a 1917 action with an apex barrel - both are great guns. I just couldn't understand how nosler and hornady could get essentially the near same velocity out of the whelen with a much heavier bullet using the same case. With my reloading there's more of a decrease in velocity with the whelen and heavier bullets.

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Thanks to all for the discussion. I have both an '06 in a model 70 winchester and a whelen built up on a 1917 action with an apex barrel - both are great guns. I just couldn't understand how nosler and hornady could get essentially the near same velocity out of the whelen with a much heavier bullet using the same case. With my reloading there's more of a decrease in velocity with the whelen and heavier bullets.

 

Good powder selection by the factories. With premium ammo, the factories are using a lot of custom tuned non-cannister powders that are not even available to the general public, just to squeeze out the last hundred or two FPS in their top dollar loadings.

 

(Also a fan of the .35 Whelen)

 

Good luck, GJ

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I can't remember now where I read it (possibly in "Handloading" magazine), but a fellow said he liked to have bragging rights around the campfire as much as anyone else, so he told people he shot ".300 Whelen -- the .35 Whelen necked down to .30 caliber.

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You like the 35 Whelen? You should see my 358 Norma.:)

But I wouldn't like to see your ammo costs (that is of course why the .35 Whelen was developed - a working class gun and working man's price for ammo - rather than .375 H&H prices).

 

I'm sure that Norma thumps the target good.

 

Good luck, GJ

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Heck why stop there with da Norma offering ,,,,,, Why not go to the .35 Newton 150 fps. faster than the Norma .......

With no belt, minium body taper and a sharp shoulder ..... (think .375 Ruger necked to 35, but developed 85 years sooner)...

 

 

Jabez Cowboy

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I can't remember now where I read it (possibly in "Handloading" magazine), but a fellow said he liked to have bragging rights around the campfire as much as anyone else, so he told people he shot ".300 Whelen -- the .35 Whelen necked down to .30 caliber.

 

 

I love it! :lol:

 

Snakebite

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we built an M1 garand for a guy in Alaska in 35 whalen. Dont know why, but thats what he wanted

hud

 

Howdy, Pard,

The reason for going to the 35 Whelen would (at least in the shooter's opinion) be to have heavier bullet weight. Why? He's up in Alaska. They have these great big "teddy bears" up there, and sometimes a heavier slug will be a bit more effective.

 

How can Hornady, et al, get higher velocities than a handloader, without exceeding safe pressure levels? "Simple". They use powders that aren't available to the handloader, dispite the introduction of so many new powders in recent years.

 

Ride easy, but stay alert! Godspeed to those still in harm's way in the defense of Freedom everywhere! God Bless America!

 

Your Pard,

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I believe that the lower pressures are created with bigger bores. The 35 2" down the bore has created more volume than the 30 two inches down for expansion of the gases.

 

Another pard brought up section density and don't forget ballistic coefficient.

Yes, all kinds of compromise.

I believe the optimum bore diameter to take advantage of velocity(squared in the energy equation), bullet weight, SD and BC are the 40 bores.

lots of knock down power and shoots flatter than the 45's.

 

But the all around use of the 30-06 is only equalled by the 308.

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