Smoked Fish , SASS # 52621 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I have the Cowboy 338 in 38-55 caliber. I have put a vernier sight on it. I would like to shoot some long range [500 yards or less ?] targets. Can it be reasonably used beyond 500 yards? What is the highest weight bullet that will cycle though my lever action? I realize that it is probably length and not weight, but assume there is some upper limit. I assume barrel length/rifling will limit the upper end of the bullet weight [case pressure/velocity/bullet spin]. What are some of the bullets and loads that any of you are using for long or longer range shooting? Any info on this subject will be appreciated. Thanks Smoked Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Fill 'Em 67797 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Lots of info here Type "38-55" in the box. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 You can use bullets up to around 290gr. if they are RNFP bullets with a big flat nose,but "Lyman" lists a fine mould that casts bullets weighing around 272gr. when cast from a 1-20 tin/lead mix ... It is listed as 2660449 and needs top-punch #449 for sizing... Hope this is helpful... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scratch, SASS #5245 Posted August 27, 2011 Share Posted August 27, 2011 Lots of info here Type "38-55" in the box. Yup +1 on this site...see what Wet Dog is doing with the 38-55 336 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crosscut hardy Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 A good load for up to 500 yards is 330gr (lyman) using FFF Black. Got this from friend and long range guru Dogie Jones, works good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Gentlemen, I have a favorite 38-55 bullet that is very accurate. Let me tell you the story behind it: Back in 2007, I read an article in The Blackpowder Cartridge News that was a reformulated calculation of the Greenhill Formula specifically for original gunpowder loads. The article calculated that the out of production Ideal 375166 bullet calculated a 17.65 ratio for a 1:18 twist barrel which is the usual 38-55 twist. I had to have the bullet. It took me 2 years putting a group buy together, obtaining the dimensions of the bullet because the mold is near extinct and Lyman to remake the mold. Finally in 2009, I had the mold, ran the proposed reload through the Powley Stability Calculator, loaded some up and here are the results of the first range test ... http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13911 Then this May, was at the Ridgway R&P Club for a week, shooting many caliber rifles out to 1000 yds and the 200 to 500 meter steel silhouettes. I took 50 rounds of the 375166 and my Uberti HiWall. The rounds were loaded with the new 2010 lot of KIK powder. Here is the results of choreographing the rounds and shooting the silhouettes from 500m to 200m ... http://www.schuetzenpowder.com/forum/index.php?topic=107.0 The remake of the Ideal 375-166 bullet is without a doubt ... A Winner Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Pards; That "Lyman" bullet is to long ant pointy for use where the action limits COL to a MAX of 2.576 for proper function .... And I have yet to see a Marlin Lever that will stabilise this bullet even loaded singley..... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 And I have yet to see a Marlin Lever that will stabilise this bullet even loaded singley..... Jabez, interesting. Have facts for this statement, ie targets? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted August 28, 2011 Share Posted August 28, 2011 Yes I have ... And Like you I have seen that bullet shot out of Highwalls with good sucess but not out of Marlin Lever-actions .... That bullet seated to 2.576 inches to function in the Marlin in question leaves less than one third of an inch space in the case for powder.......... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Thanks Jabez. I'll take your words as gospel related to Marlins & the 375166 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 John Boy; Pard several of my pards have used this bullet in the .38-55 in Sharps,Highwalls,Rollers and A "Peabody" with stunning sugcess, it is just not a good bullet in levers where action lenght curtails over-all seated lenght ... Canada's BAT 44 has won the B.C. provincials with this bullet at least twice, "Nuet Reno" won this years B.C. provincial longrange side match with a "Uberti" Highwall (I spotted for him) Bat used a custom barreled Roller ... "Territorial Rider" from Orygun (USA) also uses a Browning Highwall in .38-55 with good sucess ... I have two .38-55s lever guns both made by Winchester (79 years apart), and both will shoot my custom .380 bullets from a NEC mould that casts bullets with a big flat point weighing 290 grains ,,,,,, but these bullets are a full 1/2 shorter than the Lyman bullet..... And even these bullets give up a lot of speed over the lighter bullets in my guns and ARE extreemly fussy as to loads that will make them shoot .... I have to use "Reloader 7 at a minium of 21,000 psi. but groups don't really start to close-up till presure levels get in the 35,000 psi. range ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted August 29, 2011 Share Posted August 29, 2011 Lyman bullet #2660248 when cast from 1-20 alloy weighs in at 253 grains and I push this bullet out of the muzzles of my Winchesters at 1,900 Fps. for a dandy Elk/Deer load ... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked Fish , SASS # 52621 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 You can use bullets up to around 290gr. if they are RNFP bullets with a big flat nose,but "Lyman" lists a fine mould that casts bullets weighing around 272gr. when cast from a 1-20 tin/lead mix ... It is listed as 2660449 and needs top-punch #449 for sizing... Hope this is helpful... Jabez Cowboy Where would I get bullets that size 290 gr ? Thanks Smoked Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 Where would I get bullets that size 290 gr ? Fish, I know of only one current production non-tapered 38-55 bullet for fixed cartridge reloads that weighs close to 290grs. It is the Lyman 379449 that weighs a nominal 278grs http://www.unobtainamite.com/ http://www.unobtainamite.com/pdf/WhatWeCast2011.pdf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoked Fish , SASS # 52621 Posted September 21, 2011 Author Share Posted September 21, 2011 Fish, I know of only one current production non-tapered 38-55 bullet for fixed cartridge reloads that weighs close to 290grs. It is the Lyman 379449 that weighs a nominal 278grs http://www.unobtainamite.com/ http://www.unobtainamite.com/pdf/WhatWeCast2011.pdf With the Marlin lever gun how heavy a bullet can you go and still get distance. By that I mean , the heavier the bullet the better it carries, but with the lever action and the 24 inch barrel there is a point where you can not get the velocity/weight of bullet and you actually loose more from the bullet weight than you gain. Hope that makes some sense to you. I assume the 278 gr bullet is about as large as a lever can handle anyway, even single feed. What bullet size do you use for longer ranges with your lever guns? Powder? Have you ever gotten good groups with H4895 ? This is what I am using with poor results and I am not sure why [yet]. Thanks Smoked Fish Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 21, 2011 Share Posted September 21, 2011 What bullet size do you use for longer ranges with your lever guns? Powder?Have you ever gotten good groups with H4895 ? This is what I am using with poor results and I am not sure why [yet]. Fish, if you are asking me, your going to be totally disappointed: * I don't own a 38-55 lever action rifle * I shoot, as stated in the post in this thread, the Ideal 375166, 320gr bullet in Single Shot Rifles with 30" barrels using Black Powder only with vernier and globed sights Presume a 24" barreled level MAY reach 500yds depending on the skills of the owner with a properly made reload and IMR 4895. For the average shooter, accuracy at 300yds, being the nominal maximum range for the caliber, again depends on the skills of the shooter. Here's some other loading data ... http://www.handloads.com/loaddata/default.asp?Caliber=38-55&Weight=All&type=rifle&Order=Powder&Source= http://www.reloadbench.com/cartridges/3855w.html ... Got to the vendors website for the data related to the powders mentioned Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Bill, SASS #28783 Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 John Boy, I would like to try the 375166 bullet in my highwall. I have not seen them listed. Where can I go to get the mold and top punch? Thanks, Yankee Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Boy Posted September 24, 2011 Share Posted September 24, 2011 Bill, Lou Sellman (a Lyman distributor) paid for the cherries and sells the mold and top punch. The reason you haven't seen it listed is because it is a custom made mold and took 2 years to get a group buy and then Lyman cut the molds. There are only 3 original Ideal 375166 that I have determined: 2 unknown owners and 1 known Here you go ... Best to call Lou: Ordering Instructions: Order By Mail, Check or Money Order … Price of the Mold - $75 Shipping - $10.00 plus $1.70 Insurance ($11.70) Price of Top Punch - $8.50 (Optional) Price of the Sizing Die - $19.95 (Optional Send a letter with your shipping information and a check or money for your total purchase to: Lou Sellman 2003 Ewings Mill Rd Corapolis, PA 15108-3311 Order By Credit Card Call Lou at (412) 299-0412 Lou Sellman email address … reloadersequipmentonline.com or customcastbullets@yahoo.com Here's my 1st range test with the bullet ... http://www.shilohrifle.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=13911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dutch Al #22045 Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Before you get too involved with what bullet to shoot in your 38-55, have the barrel slugged to determine the actual bore diameter. Unfortunately Marlin bore sizes varied somewhat. Nominal bore size (for a Marlin) was .379, plus or minus .0015. One of my Marlin 336s slugged out at .382. Conventional wisdom says (for best results) bullets should be bore size or .001 over. Believe me, it isn't easy to find cast bullets sized .383. Worse yet, a cartridge loaded with a .382 bullet wouldn't fit in the chamber of that barrel. I had to send the rifle out to Old Scout, a gunsmith in California, to have the chamber recut. Unfortunately Old Scout has passed away, and I don't know if there are any other gunsmiths currently doing that work. Sadly, Marlin's combination of a larger bore and a tight chamber caused many of their 38-55s to have accuracy problems. There are several cast bullet makers who stock 265 grain gas check bullets. For lever guns, that weight seems to work well. I don't recall seeing any cast bullet makers selling a bullet larger than .379. I have three 38-55 lever rifles. One was rebarreled with an after market barrel from Badger (available through Buffalo Arms) sold with a .375 bore diameter, and a 1 in 15" twist. The other two have 30-30 barrels, bored out to 375 bore diameter, also with a 1 in 15 twist. All these rifles shoot quite well, with 3" groups (at 100 yards, using iron sights) being the norm. That's been my experience with 38-55 lever rifles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Reno Posted September 25, 2011 Share Posted September 25, 2011 Before you get too involved with what bullet to shoot in your 38-55, have the barrel slugged to determine the actual bore diameter. Unfortunately Marlin bore sizes varied somewhat. Nominal bore size (for a Marlin) was .379, plus or minus .0015. One of my Marlin 336s slugged out at .382. Conventional wisdom says (for best results) bullets should be bore size or .001 over. Believe me, it isn't easy to find cast bullets sized .383. Worse yet, a cartridge loaded with a .382 bullet wouldn't fit in the chamber of that barrel. I had to send the rifle out to Old Scout, a gunsmith in California, to have the chamber recut. Unfortunately Old Scout has passed away, and I don't know if there are any other gunsmiths currently doing that work. Sadly, Marlin's combination of a larger bore and a tight chamber caused many of their 38-55s to have accuracy problems. There are several cast bullet makers who stock 265 grain gas check bullets. For lever guns, that weight seems to work well. I don't recall seeing any cast bullet makers selling a bullet larger than .379. I have three 38-55 lever rifles. One was rebarreled with an after market barrel from Badger (available through Buffalo Arms) sold with a .375 bore diameter, and a 1 in 15" twist. The other two have 30-30 barrels, bored out to 375 bore diameter, also with a 1 in 15 twist. All these rifles shoot quite well, with 3" groups (at 100 yards, using iron sights) being the norm. That's been my experience with 38-55 lever rifles. Hey Dutch, Try Hunters Supply bullets in N.M.,they sell a cast 260gr.in .381dia. that shoots great in my Marlin. John reno Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yankee Bill, SASS #28783 Posted September 26, 2011 Share Posted September 26, 2011 Thanks, John Boy The mold is ordered and should ship today. I have 13 rifles in 38-55. Some are lever action, some are single action. Some are originals, some are new. Bore diameters from .375 to .380. I'll try the Ideal in my Uberti and Taditional Hunter highwalls. Yankee Bill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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