Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The target is pretty much a basic large target that can be used for rifle or pistol, distance optional. The wild card is that there is a hole in the center of the target and the ability to mount a clay target behind the hole, almost all of the clay is visible. The target is set at a distance normally used by your club and as normal a miss is a miss BUT if the clay is broken the shooter gets a ten second bonus. We all know that there will be shooters who will get a lucky hit, which could add pressure to the idea of making it a must address shot. What say you, great fun or has no place in SASS, and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The target is pretty much a basic large target that can be used for rifle or pistol, distance optional. The wild card is that there is a hole in the center of the target and the ability to mount a clay target behind the hole, almost all of the clay is visible. The target is set at a distance normally used by your club and as normal a miss is a miss BUT if the clay is broken the shooter gets a ten second bonus. We all know that there will be shooters who will get a lucky hit, which could add pressure to the idea of making it a must address shot. What say you, great fun or has no place in SASS, and why? we already have something similar with a heart cutout and a plate behind it. Its fun! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sounds like fun to me! There are those who don't like bonuses, as once the first person gets it, if you don't you in effect are getting a deduction or penalty for not getting it. Me, I like mixing in things like this now and then, makes it fun. go for it! Grizz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 we already have something similar with a heart cutout and a plate behind it. Its fun! Bar 3 has some like that also. Don't always use them. But they do now and then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 How did you decide on a 10 second bonus value? For many shooters that is a half a stage of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLACKFOOT SASS #11947 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not a problem for occasional use but 10 seconds is HUGE. Drifter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Creeker, SASS #43022 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 No problem, sounds like fun. Question is, say they bust out the clay target on their first shot. Is there any way to score rounds that go thru the hole (the more difficult shot) after that point? Or does the target just convert to a "Don't go thru the hole or it's a miss target" then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I enjoy things like this, but 10 seconds is way to much! Go with 3 or 5 at most. Next please make the rules very simple and clear. If the clay is broken, cracked, chipped, Etc. Give the shooter the bonus!If the clay has no damage it's simple "no bonus". I was at a match where they where using this target. And the RO was deciding what a hit was and what was an edger crack was? And some shooters damaged the clay but didn't get the bonus? I didnt care for that. At least with a faller style target if it goes down you get a bonus and if it's an edger and dosnt go down, simple no bonus. You could consider the plate that has a knock down steel plate in the center.(W3GUN style) Just my 2 cents. Lead Ringer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hi Bob, Just for you, I came to see what you were doing. I've seen targets like that and thought they were fun. I really like just about anything that adds variety. Due to the hole, I'd recommend only using this target once per shooter. I've also seen targets like Jack mentions. Those are fun too. They can be reengaged by the same shooter. I'm not a fan of bonus scoring; but, it seems reasonable for this type of target. (Similar to the W3G bonuses.) If the targets are at normal distances, I think a five second bonus is plenty. If quite a bit farther out, then you could go to ten, as aiming time could be greatly increased for shooters at the bottom of the pack. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I like this kind of target as a variety. When used for a dump of 5, we usually say that it is a bonus when the clay is broken, and a miss if a shot passes through the hole where clay was without touching any of the remnants of the clay. if it touches a remnant of the clay it counts as a hit. My 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Rather than a time bonus, we enter the shooter who successfully hits the bonus target in a drawing for a prize. As already mentioned, have the shooters engage that target once only. Simplifies scoring. Have fun, Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I like things like this, but 10 seconds is way to much! Go with 3 or 5 at most. We have one at Mima, but we only give a 5-second bonus. The trouble with the target is that sometimes an obvious shot on the plate (not the bird) causes vibrations which will cause the plate to crack, then people try to claim the bonus, which is not in the spirit of the game. I always try to tell the spotters to pay close attention to the bonus shot. We first saw this target at the OR State Match, and like any good cowpoke, we stole the idea. We took one of our 16" round targets up to a machine shop and had them cut a hole a little smaller than the standard White Flyer, welded two cup hooks on either side of the hole, then hold the bird in place by a thin rubber band stretched between the hooks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think that is great!...and if everyone has a chance to get the bonus...no problem. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickahominy Charlie Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Don't forget about the (1) time involved with changing out the clay for each (potentially) shooter and (2) the "cold range" issues of having to do that when setting up the scenarios/range. I like shooting these though! My local club has a tube (3 or 4" I think) that has a flap at the end with a little flaggie thing that let's the spotters know whether the round passed through or not. It's fun to shoot! Chick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spittoon O Tool SASS #62053 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The target is pretty much a basic large target that can be used for rifle or pistol, distance optional. The wild card is that there is a hole in the center of the target and the ability to mount a clay target behind the hole, almost all of the clay is visible. The target is set at a distance normally used by your club and as normal a miss is a miss BUT if the clay is broken the shooter gets a ten second bonus. We all know that there will be shooters who will get a lucky hit, which could add pressure to the idea of making it a must address shot. What say you, great fun or has no place in SASS, and why? Sure it's fun except that someone has to go down range to replace the clay, plus when the down range is called, all loading and unloading has to stop. That can be a pain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Hi Bob, Just for you, I came to see what you were doing. I've seen targets like that and thought they were fun. I really like just about anything that adds variety. Due to the hole, I'd recommend only using this target once per shooter. I've also seen targets like Jack mentions. Those are fun too. They can be reengaged by the same shooter. I'm not a fan of bonus scoring; but, it seems reasonable for this type of target. (Similar to the W3G bonuses.) If the targets are at normal distances, I think a five second bonus is plenty. If quite a bit farther out, then you could go to ten, as aiming time could be greatly increased for shooters at the bottom of the pack. Regards, Allie Mo Allie is correct about changing the clay after any damage befor the next shooter gets to the line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sure it's fun except that someone has to go down range to replace the clay, plus when the down range is called, all loading and unloading has to stop. That can be a pain. That would depend on how your loading and unloading tables are set up, wouldn't it? Our loading and unloading tables are set at a 90 degree angle from the firing line, facing a berm wall. We enforce the 170 at the tables. We have to go down range anyway to reset our shotgun targets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lead Ringer Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 We have one at Mima, but we only give a 5-second bonus. The trouble with the target is that sometimes an obvious shot on the plate (not the bird) causes vibrations which will cause the plate to crack, then people try to claim the bonus, which is not in the spirit of the game. I always try to tell the spotters to pay close attention to the bonus shot. We first saw this target at the OR State Match, and like any good cowpoke, we stole the idea. We took one of our 16" round targets up to a machine shop and had them cut a hole a little smaller than the standard White Flyer, welded two cup hooks on either side of the hole, then hold the bird in place by a thin rubber band stretched between the hooks. Okie, I can understand the crack from vibration. how do you call the bounus if a slice of lead passes through the clay, but it only leaves a pin hole? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 I think that is great!...and if everyone has a chance to get the bonus...no problem. GG ~ The way I wrote the stage was four pistol targets, P1, P2, P3, P4, with P4 having the clay bird. At the beep draw your first pistol and alternate four shots on P2 and P3, with the fifth shot on P1. Draw your second pistol and alternate four shots on P2 and P3, with the fifth shot on P4. If you hit the bird, you get a five second bonus. One tip if anyone wants to use this target, put down a large canvas paint drop cloth. At the end of the match, the clay bird fragments are easily removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Okie, I can understand the crack from vibration. how do you call the bounus if a slice of lead passes through the clay, but it only leaves a pin hole? IMHO, that would not be a bonus, since it would be lead splatter from a hit on the steel, not the clay bird. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Barleycorn, SASS #76982 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Sounds like fun, I'd go with a 5 second bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Have at it. 5 seconds is plenty. two small strips on angle iron in a shallow "V" (eave the middle of the V missing, so crumbs fall out), tack welded to the back of the steel will hold the clay in a quick-to-reset fashion. Ya slide the clay in the slot and yer done. Using it as a dump would be intersting For the first shot ya wanna hit the bonus, "hole", then ya focus on the donut instead..... Make it so a bonus ONLY counts on the first shot, and subsequent shots through (even if they take out the clay) are a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Don't forget about the (1) time involved with changing out the clay for each (potentially) shooter and (2) the "cold range" issues of having to do that when setting up the scenarios/range. I like shooting these though! My local club has a tube (3 or 4" I think) that has a flap at the end with a little flaggie thing that let's the spotters know whether the round passed through or not. It's fun to shoot! Chick Hi Chick, I built that tube. For some clubs this resetting the clay will really slow things down. To eliminate resetting clays the better plan is a target with a hole but instead of a clay use a smaller round target steel on a hinge to fill the hole. To this smaller plate weld a wire for a flag that pops up over the big target went the small center target is hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Threebars, SASS #35671 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Not a problem for occasional use but 10 seconds is HUGE. Drifter I like the idea, but 10 seconds might be a bit much...not for me, but then they times me wid a sundial. R3B Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 we already have something similar with a heart cutout and a plate behind it. Its fun! in the case of the heart shape hole we had a 1 second bonus fro every time you hit the plate behind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cash Duckett Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 We do this with a hole in the target and a "flapper" that rings n swings when hit. Makes a completly different sound than the rest of the target. It is on a rifle target and it ain't easy to hit. Flapper is hinged at the top of hole in target. No resetting, no cold range. Cash Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cliff Hanger #3720LR Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Two thoughts. 1. I do not like bonus targets. The reasons have been said. Once hit, it is no longer a bonus but a MUST HIT to keep up on that stage. So instead make this target if hit a ticket earned for a drawing of some sort of simple prize. 2. Clay birds cost the club money. Not much but some. I would be for the hinged flapper target behind the hole. Then you could actually earn more than one ticket for the drawing. Maybe a free lunch, if you have lunch at your range. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The Thunder Mountain Shootists have a target like this. We also have a large cowboy with 3 holes/hinged plates that are each held in place by a piece of rubber. For a monthly match I like these and the bonuses that go with them. (first hit is a bonus and anything through the hole after that is a miss) That said I am opposed to using any bonuses for a state or higher match. I just cannot reconcile a shooting event being decided on the basis of an optional/luck of the draw/did the other guy get it or not? type of target. I have seen a number of good fast shooters hit the bird on the first shot and because they are shooting quickly and to a specific point on the target not be able to pull off of the bird and get 1, 2 or even 3 misses through the (now empty) hole. One who comes immediately to mind typically puts a five shot burst on a dump target under two secs and all hits could be covered by a half dollar. To have to re-aim for another section of the target after taking out the bird is chancy (and slow) to say the least. of course YMMV Regards Gateway (who needs to practice) Kid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 I'm one of those that don't like bonus shots. However, if you did a bank of 5 targets like this, and each clay carried a 1 second bonus, I think it would work out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 Sounds like fun to me too! If'n I miss that there clay, can I make it up with the SxS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smokin Gator SASS #29736 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 "That said I am opposed to using any bonuses for a state or higher match. I just cannot reconcile a shooting event being decided on the basis of an optional/luck of the draw/did the other guy get it or not? type of target. I have seen a number of good fast shooters hit the bird on the first shot and because they are shooting quickly and to a specific point on the target not be able to pull off of the bird and get 1, 2 or even 3 misses through the (now empty) hole. One who comes immediately to mind typically puts a five shot burst on a dump target under two secs and all hits could be covered by a half dollar. To have to re-aim for another section of the target after taking out the bird is chancy (and slow) to say the least. of course YMMV" I find it difficult to believe that a shooter good enough to fire 5 shots under 2 seconds that would be covered by a half dollar wouldn't have the ability to move his sights to hit another spot on the steel or the next target. This is the kind of thinking that makes any series of targets, that may require the shooter to hesitate for even a split second, before pulling the trigger after cycling whatever gun he's using, to be considered too difficult. I sure wouldn't want SASS to be a bullseye game, but is taking a split second more than it takes to cock your revolver or lever your rifle to be sure your sights are on target really that difficult? Just don't get it. Smokin Gator Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowhand Bob, 24229 Posted August 26, 2011 Author Share Posted August 26, 2011 WOW, good thoughts and ideas. I agree with Allie on the fact that this would be best used as a one round target part of an array or better yet, coupled with a fair sized dump target. I see no problem with the 'bonus' target used properly at a big match but do feel that ten seconds would be high but less than five just does not carry enough value to keep it honest. My thought on most bonus targets is that it is never, ever an optional target for the top shooters and only actually becomes one for the very bottom rung of shooters. If the reigning world champion must shoot the stage first and faces this target, he knows the score and fully realizes that it is a must make target as does every other wannabe contender. Optional or luck is only a perk for those of us who think it is about desert time. If it is a target and it is presented to every shooter in the same manner then luck plays no part in it. Any clay that can be picked up without coming apart and does not allow light to pass through is a hit for me BUT I am not making the rules here. Most of our stages require at least one shooter to go forward to perform some sort of reset anyway so I see no delay unless the hit is questionable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfgang, SASS #53480 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 The target is pretty much a basic large target that can be used for rifle or pistol, distance optional. The wild card is that there is a hole in the center of the target and the ability to mount a clay target behind the hole, almost all of the clay is visible. The target is set at a distance normally used by your club and as normal a miss is a miss BUT if the clay is broken the shooter gets a ten second bonus. We all know that there will be shooters who will get a lucky hit, which could add pressure to the idea of making it a must address shot. What say you, great fun or has no place in SASS, and why? Sounds great. I think I have heered of something lik it befur,.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 We use one like it occasionally. It is a 16" round steel tqarget with a 3.5" holeounted behind. and a clay bird is mounted behind. Any hit is a hit, but minus 5 sec for busting the bird. Worst part is taking the time to put in a new bird after busting it. Mustang Gregg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted August 26, 2011 Share Posted August 26, 2011 We use one like it occasionally. It is a 16" round steel tqarget with a 3.5" holeounted behind. and a clay bird is mounted behind. Any hit is a hit, but minus 5 sec for busting the bird. Worst part is taking the time to put in a new bird after busting it. Mustang Gregg Hey, I like that! A penalty for HITTING the bird. I'm shamelessly stealing your idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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