BJT Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am probably dreadfully behind the curve as I just considered this over the weekend. A TO should count shots. It might also be helpful if the TO looked on the last rifle shot to visually verify the last empty ejecting. I tried it this weekend. I never had a failure to eject but I could see the last spent shell coming out fairly easily. Might be tougher with lefties and some speed demons but in general, I think this could be helpful. What do you think? Cheers, BJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am probably dreadfully behind the curve as I just considered this over the weekend. A TO should count shots. It might also be helpful if the TO looked on the last rifle shot to visually verify the last empty ejecting. I tried it this weekend. I never had a failure to eject but I could see the last spent shell coming out fairly easily. Might be tougher with lefties and some speed demons but in general, I think this could be helpful. What do you think? Cheers, BJT I try and do that any way, for rifle and shotgun but it is difficult depending on your postion and their speed. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 A TO should count shots. It might also be helpful if the TO looked on the last rifle shot to visually verify the last empty ejecting. I tried it this weekend. I never had timed a shooter with a failure to eject but I could see the last spent shell coming out fairly easily. Might be tougher with lefties and some speed demons but in general, I think this could be helpful. During a smooth run, it's relatively easy. When the shooter bobbles the last two or three rounds, maybe is fighting to get rounds to feed, ejects a live one, has an empty stick in the action and fights to get it out, then continues (or tries and fails to make any progress), then the TOs job of keeping track of whether the last round in the gun has been ejected becomes pretty tough. Especially if the shooter overloaded the number of rounds required, as the rules now do not penalize that, but they do still penallize leaving an unfired round in the gun. To be as helpful as TOs try to be, the TO now should ALSO be trying to get a glimpse of a round on or in the carrier - something that is really tough on toggle link rifles. Don't forget, we also want the TO to be making sure they caught the last shot of a stage on the timer, too. Hopefully, stage is not requiring rifle to be shot last. But you do see all these requirements if the shooter is using a magazine type shotgun (a 97 or an 87). All this makes for a really busy TO. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I always try to see the last round ejected from rifle or shotgun. Plus I'll glance into the action at the end of a string, or as the shooter is laying the gun down to see if there is a case or hull. Good Luck Jefro Realx-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 I am probably dreadfully behind the curve as I just considered this over the weekend. A TO should count shots. It might also be helpful if the TO looked on the last rifle shot to visually verify the last empty ejecting. I tried it this weekend. I never had a failure to eject but I could see the last spent shell coming out fairly easily. Might be tougher with lefties and some speed demons but in general, I think this could be helpful. What do you think? Cheers, BJT Would have saved me a safety, blowing a clean match, on the last stage of a two day shoot. Yeah, I know it was my fault and I earned it and I sure don't begrudge the TO one little bit, but he was looking at my rifle at the end of the rifle string cause he said "you didn't get that action open very far after the last shot". SG finished the stage so there was no way to clear it before the UL table. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Last two shots I'm looking at the clock to insure they are recorded I could put the left eye on the clock and the right on the chamber unless they are left handed then I'd stand on the left with the right eye on the clock and the left on chamber unless they were going to move to the left then right on the... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fillmore Coffins, SASS #7884 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I try to look in the "window" of a marlin or 97. I also check the doubles. At a recent annual the shooter and I both missed a split case that overcame the extractor of a Marlin. What I am going to try to do in the future is watch for the last spent case/hull COMING OUT of the firearm. This will save the step of checking the gun once it's down. Fillmore Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cheyenne Culpepper 32827 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 the rifle is tough, i usually watch it as it goes down,,,,i saved three shooters with their sg at GOA on one stage, yu cud say they were very thankful... I try to be one of the best, sometimes I fail, but I try... cheyenne Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Last two shots I'm looking at the clock to insure they are recorded This^^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snakebite Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I've been doing just that for a long time. It works best when the right handed shooter is using a Marlin. You can see if there are any cartridges left in the magazine. It shows up well due to the curve at the front of the loading gate. Snakebite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dash Caliber Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I think you got a good handle on it and I like the idea of looking for the last case...Now some people don't like anyone talking while they are shooting so I either know or find out about that...but I have have made a lot of friends calling out the last few shots of any dump targets...you know...7-8-9-10-open where they can hear it...I mean I'm counting them anyway. DC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Max Montana, SASS #23907 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 BJT It can be if you want it to be. While you're at it look for lever, and remember which target the shooter is on and which is next in case he needs a reminder. Anticipate his gun changes in case again if he needs a reminder. It would also be helpful while looking at the gun to be able to see right down the length of the barrel just in case an edge hit needs confirmation. Lastly, make sure a glance at the timer on the last shot to verify correct time. That being said, I personally don't want to hear a constant play by play while shooting, I tend to block that out just as I do posse "noise". What I do want to hear is words like "LEVER!", "HULL", "again or UP" for SG targets. "That's 10" or "you're empty" are good when I lose count. In relation to targets and depending on target layount, I prefer to hear "Target 2" or "Middle target" or "Far right target' or "Red Target" etc. whatever is most efficient and easy to recognize. When I have to move to the next shooting position, I prefer to hear "Next Window" or "Next opening" again whichever is most logical instead of a panicked scream in my ear to "MOVE!", just in case I've already cocked, pumped, or levered, that helps keep presence of mind to make gun in movable condition. And if a long gun needs to go down vertical after being picked up from the horizontal a simple "VERTICAl" works just fine. BJT, you can be my TO any time! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 A few years ago I was asked, "How do I learn to 'run the clock' like you?" The following is what I put together for him. ================================================================================================== You MUST know the stage. Spotters: - Make sure you have three. - Poll all of them after the shooter is done. Learn to anticipate trouble spots in the stage. Such as: - Dump targets. Especially important to count shots. - When the second scenario on a berm reverses the target sequence that was in the first scenario. - Shoot pistol from one position, move, then shoot other pistol… particularly windows. - Sweep left, then right, double-tapping the end. - When a typical sweep is reversed (i.e., progressive) - When returning guns to a place different from where they were retrieved (i.e.: get pistols from prop & return to holster; shooting long gun and “taking it with you”) Once you’ve identified a trouble spot, know what you’re going to say to the shooter when he gets in trouble there… so you can do something besides stand there with you mouth hanging open making squeaking noises. Know where the shooter is in the target sequence. This helps you direct the shooter to the proper target in the event of a gun malfunction mid-sequence. - If the sequence is specific, know what target the shooter is supposed to hit next. - If the sequence is not specific (i.e., 5-on-3), know what targets the shooter has hit. Watch the ’97 port for hull that doesn’t eject. Watch the SxS chamber for the hull that doesn’t slide out. Watch the long gun down. Watch the pistol in. If the shooter needs to be stopped (for a squib or to “open the lever”, for example) you need to be close enough to do that, but not so close you interfere. The shooter doesn’t need to feel you breathing. When a stage requires movement, and the shooter begins to move, don’t be there. Again, know the stage. The clock: - Direct the pickup toward the shooter. - Hold it over & behind the shooter’s head/shoulder not under the arm or at waist level. - Glance at it during the course of fire to make sure it’s working. - Don’t hold it so close to the shooter as to interfere or have it in his peripheral vision. - Move it in to make sure you get the last shot and look at it for the last shot. - “Imprint” the final time as you cover the pickup. At the end of the scenario, once you’ve “imprinted & covered up”, turn your attention back to the shooter to make sure he gets safely off of the stage. Poll the spotters. Then go to the scorekeeper and announce the shooters time and penalties while showing the scorekeeper the clock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GW Ryder, SASS #50690 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 The command I used the most last weekend was "Muzzle!". Some folks just can't get the hang of moving with a shotgun. Lot's of good info in this post. GW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted August 25, 2011 Share Posted August 25, 2011 Stump covered it pretty well. KNOW the stage and be moving through it without waiting to react to the shooter's movement. ANTICIPATE. When stage offers options (Start at "A" and EITHER move down range and right or left to position B or C), ask before you start he shooter "which way we goin?".... When a shooter is gonna move after shooting a gun (especially to the right, which is where most TO's will be for a right-handed shooter) ANTICIPATE and get the heck outta the way before he moves. As A shooter, when I wheel to the right (or left, as applicable) the last thing I want is the danged timer to be in my face. A GOOD TO is like a "voice in my head" I can't see him, but I know he's there because he speaks when I hesitate, and otherwise he just ANTICIPATES and moves with me. Yer never gonna save all the folks with a round left in the rifle but if ya can see a case (Marlins are easier), sure, sing out. But if I dump the empty rifle on a "NY hay bale" (plywood bale covered with carpet) in great haste and move to the right, you ought to be stepping back and turning to your right to follow me, so you likely ain't got time to see that rifle, especially if we have several steps to the next shooting position, because I be "gone" and you best be comin' with me 'cuz we ain't done yet..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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