Shooting required with off or weak hand

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I'm the match director and I mulled this one over a while back. I thought about setting up a really easy stage and have everyone shoot it gunfighter style. Just alternate between two big targets with the pistols. I thought it would be fun but then I started thinking about the weakest link in the chain and reconsidered. Not everyone shooting at our club is able to shoot with both hands. Several of them are using all available dexterity and strength to safely shoot using two hands. The result would be trying to unsafely shoot the stage, take a penalty or not shoot the stage at all. Now how much fun is that?

 

I remind myself that I'm not writing stages for the top guns. They can shoot anything. I write them for the average shooter who is not there for a memory test or a marathon.

[owen judice]

Here is the part of the email I received.

 

We will also have special stage [corral] that everyone will have to shoot "Gunfighter"

That is both pistols out at the same time. one with each hand...will explain rules at shooter meeting.

 

I am not a member of this club, I may shoot there a couple of times a year, but I would not try to shoot gunfighter. "A man must know his limitations".

[Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381]

So I guess that stage I wrote where you have to shoot with your feet is out, eh? :unsure:

[The Shoer 27979]

So I guess that stage I wrote where you have to shoot with your feet is out, eh? :unsure:

 

Only after I watch you shoot it with your feet but you have to shoot it gunfighter :lol:

[Guest diablo slim shootist]

Reason I asked was I got an email telling about an up coming match and on one stage they are going to require EVERY ONE to shoot the stage Gunfighter, I won't be at that match. I don't shoot Gunfighter or any thing else that requires me to shoot with my weak hand.

I have seen Owen shoot and no one would want to be anywhere near him

if he was shooting with his weak hand.

 

Diablo Slim -who can miss equally fast with both hands

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Not reading any posts...

 

I've seen a duelist stage required (1999 IIRC). I would never do that to someone. IT IS NOT SAFE FOR ALL!So the simple answer is

 

NO! Hope I made that clear.

[Ventura Slim, SASS #35690]

Must be a Texas kind of thing...

So why not

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Here is the part of the email I received.

 

We will also have special stage [corral] that everyone will have to shoot "Gunfighter"

That is both pistols out at the same time. one with each hand...will explain rules at shooter meeting.

 

I am not a member of this club, I may shoot there a couple of times a year, but I would not try to shoot gunfighter. "A man must know his limitations".

 

Okay, this is in the top 5 stoopidist things I've ever heard.

 

Is the person that thought of this idear on some kind of mind altering drug?

 

[Crosscut Jack, SASS #67759]

Reason I asked was I got an email telling about an up coming match and on one stage they are going to require EVERY ONE to shoot the stage Gunfighter, I won't be at that match. I don't shoot Gunfighter or any thing else that requires me to shoot with my weak hand.

 

Good for you. I shoot double duelest and would do like you and refuse to shoot gunfighter. It is really wrong to try and make someone shoot in manner that they are not comfortable with and have not practiced. Accident waiting to happen mand possible problems for the club

Crosscut Jack

[Cpt Dan Blodgett, SASS #75655]

Mid 90s at fort bliss was rather common. Lots of us sucked at it. On the whole it mattered not for score as those of us using a single vaquero could not reload with the folks using schofields.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

I did not believe the original poster said anything about two loaded guns out at once. Only to shoot with off hand duelist which is legal in all categories. Not illegal but sure pretty dumb and unsafe for folks that haven't practiced it a bunch.

 

Second post by the original poster!

 

Reason I asked was I got an email telling about an up coming match and on one stage they are going to require EVERY ONE to shoot the stage Gunfighter, I won't be at that match. I don't shoot Gunfighter or any thing else that requires me to shoot with my weak hand.

[Snakebite]

It is not proper to require any shooter to do anything that s/he can not do safely. On the flip side, it is not proper for any shooter to attempt to do something that they KNOW they can not do safely.

 

Snakebite

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

In this litigious society I can not imagine very many match directors, with even a little bit of common since, saying no to a shooter who asked for an exemption based on handicap or safety issues. I seriously doubt that there are many shooters posting here who could not actually out shoot me with their weak hand but this has become a stand on how much we resent anyone who thinks the game should be played in a way that is different from our way. Got where we have to many posts with people making threats about voting with their feet, but they never seem to disappear or stop threatening. I begin to think this is a good idea, just do not let the door whop you on the @$$ on your way to someone elses match that will let you dictate the terms of their game. Many of the older players accepted direction changes in the game through the years BUT we still play and accept that we do not have an exclusive right to dictate the terms of the game. If it is not illegal then practice for the possibility of it happening, ask your TGs to introduce a new rule, cry about it here some more or take that defiant walk, the choice is yours so do not make threats, just do it.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

In this litigious society I can not imagine very many match directors, with even a little bit of common since, saying no to a shooter who asked for an exemption based on handicap or safety issues. I seriously doubt that there are many shooters posting here who could not actually out shoot me with their weak hand but this has become a stand on how much we resent anyone who thinks the game should be played in a way that is different from our way. Got where we have to many posts with people making threats about voting with their feet, but they never seem to disappear or stop threatening. I begin to think this is a good idea, just do not let the door whop you on the @$$ on your way to someone elses match that will let you dictate the terms of their game. Many of the older players accepted direction changes in the game through the years BUT we still play and accept that we do not have an exclusive right to dictate the terms of the game. If it is not illegal then practice for the possibility of it happening, ask your TGs to introduce a new rule, cry about it here some more or take that defiant walk, the choice is yours so do not make threats, just do it.

 

Well Bob, you seem to have overlooked those of us who feel we are unsafe trying this and are perfectly willing to accept what ever penalty the Match Director cares to assess for refusing to shoot in a manner we are not confident about.

[owen judice]

Many years ago when we first started our club I wrote a scenario that was just suppose to be fun and it was. Here is the story line. You are a drover on your way home from a cattle drive, you get amushed and your horse is killed. After shooting your rifle empty you draw your pistol about this time you get wounded. You were suppose to cover the wound with your off or weak hand and shoot the pistol Duelist Style, shooter chooses where you were hit. If the shooter did not feel comfortable shooting duelist you didn't have to. Most shooters did shoot the stage duelist and had a lot of fun picking where they got hit. We used this stage only a couple of times in 11 years and usually when we expect a low turn out. But again I would never write a stage that would require a stage to be shot with the weak hand on any gun.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

Personally it wouldn`t bother me one bit....

 

And I think most folks is smart enough that if they think it un-safe ,,,, they could just shoot it the regular way and take the `P` with good grace .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

[I. M. Crossdraw, SASS# 8321]

NO!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

Personally it wouldn`t bother me one bit....

 

And I think most folks is smart enough that if they think it un-safe ,,,, they could just shoot it the regular way and take the `P` with good grace .....

 

Jabez Cowboy

 

I see...it's alllll about you...can YOU do it. Hahahahahahha on the others that can't cuz they gunna get a P!

 

Yea...that's the COWBOY WAY.

 

[Muddy Creek Sam, SASS# 78004]

I would take a pass on that stage, I wouldn't take the chance.

 

Sam

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I would take a pass on that stage, I wouldn't take the chance.

 

Sam

 

And here is a perfect example of why you shouldn't do dumbass stages. Folks come out to get away from it all and have a good time...so why write stages that make folks feel that they can't even shoot the darn thing.

 

And don't go callin it "Dumbing Down SASS"!!!! It's one thing to have a stage that some may need to shoot a bit different then the rest 'cuz they can't quite do the stage as written (Physical limitations), and it a completely different thing when they say that they won't even participate in the stage.

 

Come on folks...it's about having FUN!!!!

 

[Charlie Whiskers]

FUN....really?????You mean I won't win a new Caddy doing this?Darn

[Granny Annie SASS #37063]

I see it as completely unsafe and we don't allow it on our range.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I do think that SASS has been dumbed down a lot and all sorts of excuses have been given but that is not what we are arguing here. The beast has once again gone beyond the original post, how do they always seem to do that? There was no mention of Gunfighter and a simple suggestion of asking for an exemption, on safety issues, should suffice for the handicapped and for those who are philosophically opposed to shooting in a manner that they do not prefer has the option to take the misses, not shoot at this range or lie about their ability to do the task safely. Even amongst the hard core WIRE posters only a handful of us have entered into this fray and we have decided to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Go to the match, ask for the safety exemption for goodness sake and if the MD doesn't grant it, then come back and post about it. If enough shooters get their panties in a rough over it, he will be embarrassed about it and not do it again but if everyone shoots it safely but you, then you should be embarrassed and accept that you are with a group that you do not fit in well with shooter elsewhere. Not all clubs are like minded, lets face it, we do not know for a fact that we on the WIRE even qualify as a representative microcosm of SASS shooters. Problem solved, but we can whip on it some more as I got nothing else to do today!

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

I do think that SASS has been dumbed down a lot and all sorts of excuses have been given but that is not what we are arguing here. The beast has once again gone beyond the original post, how do they always seem to do that? There was no mention of Gunfighter and a simple suggestion of asking for an exemption, on safety issues, should suffice for the handicapped and for those who are philosophically opposed to shooting in a manner that they do not prefer has the option to take the misses, not shoot at this range or lie about their ability to do the task safely. Even amongst the hard core WIRE posters only a handful of us have entered into this fray and we have decided to make a mountain out of a mole hill. Go to the match, ask for the safety exemption for goodness sake and if the MD doesn't grant it, then come back and post about it. If enough shooters get their panties in a rough over it, he will be embarrassed about it and not do it again but if everyone shoots it safely but you, then you should be embarrassed and accept that you are with a group that you do not fit in well with shooter elsewhere. Not all clubs are like minded, lets face it, we do not know for a fact that we on the WIRE even qualify as a representative microcosm of SASS shooters. Problem solved, but we can whip on it some more as I got nothing else to do today!

 

Obviously it's a lot easier to pick fun at the beasts of the Wire...but did you read the Original Posters 2nd post? Here it is:

 

Reason I asked was I got an email telling about an up coming match and on one stage they are going to require EVERY ONE to shoot the stage Gunfighter, I won't be at that match. I don't shoot Gunfighter or any thing else that requires me to shoot with my weak hand.

[Mustang Gregg]

 

I went to a match once that required EVERYONE to shoot one stage gunfighter style.

I don't scare easily---But this really did.

Mustang Gregg

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

For those of you that keep implying shooters are wimps now or not the way we used to do these things, remember the path we have actually followed. SASS has gone from requiring anyone wanting to shoot gunfighter to be qualified off line to do so because of safety issues, to allowing anyone to shoot gunfighter style that wants to do so, to now having a match director requiring someone to shoot gunfighter whether they feel they are safe or not. Some would not believe this to be progress in the safety arena.

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

I can't remember being at a shoot that would require that. I have been to a fair number of shoots here and there. As mentioned by several others it is unsafe. This ranks up there with showing up at match and being told that on stage #3 you have borrow somebody else's pistols to shoot the stage. Last time this was done there was a match DQ shooter had a AD impacted 5 feet from the line. the stage writer should have got a match DQ also in my opion.

[Possum Skinner, SASS#60697]

Lots of things that sound fun, or even would be fun to some, end up to be bad ideas. A flame-thrower would be fun. Cannon sure. Grenade a blast. BUT, these are not practical or safe in a match. This has been proven. Hence the "we used to ...". Folks found out not everyone could do it anywhere close to safely and made adjustments.

[The Shoer 27979]

Like I said in an earlier post I shoot gunfighter shoot rifle right handed and shotgun left handed and I still think this is a stupid idea and very unsafe

[Cash Duckett]

Don't matter to me, keep it the way it is if you want. When I qualify I have to use off-hand, so I practice it. I understand that most don't, so I would never write it into a stage. The option is always there (gunfighter) if someone wants to shoot offhand. I've even shot whole stages offhand just for fun, but I have no handicap that would prevent it or make it a safety issue.

Gotta vote "NO".

Cash

[Cash Duckett]

Don't matter to me, keep it the way it is if you want. When I qualify I have to use off-hand, so I practice it. I understand that most don't, so I would never write it into a stage. The option is always there (gunfighter) if someone wants to shoot offhand. I've even shot whole stages offhand just for fun, but I have no handicap that would prevent it or make it a safety issue.

Gotta vote "NO".

Cash

 

That being said, if that's what the stage called for I'd happily do it and not complain. I like to shoot sh@%!

[Cypress Sun]

I'd say that if the match director wants to have a stage like that, make it a "for fun" stage. The stage would be optional, scored seperately and not count toward the rest of the stages of the match. It wouldn't satisfy everyone, but at least the shooters who didn't feel they could complete the stage safely wouldn't have to shoot it.

Heck, might even be more folks shoot it.

[Lou Graham, # 26112]

The first time I encountered a stage like that, I told the RO I couldn't do that as I had never even tried to shoot one-handed before. No problem, I cocked with my off hand and took it away to pull the trigger. I started practicing for the NEXT time it came up as it seemed like a SOG thing to me and I should at least make an honest effort to learn to do something that was being written into the stage. That was quite a few years ago...........

 

On the gunfighter-only stage, I would like to remind you that gunfighters can legally shoot double-duelist on any stage we want to. That might allow a few more folks to try it if they are so inclined.

 

I would think at a local club match, if the stage writer knows everybody, it might be OK. My worry is someone that wants to TRY and do it that really shouldn't, not those with enough sense to know they wouldn't be safe. You need to know your pards pretty well to do something like this.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

You are forcing EVERYONE who is not a GUNFIGHTER or B WESTERN to get a Procedural by shooting the stage as directed by the stage instructions.

[Tom Bullweed]

Reading this post made me realize how fortunate we are in NC to have very good stage writers. I have shot IPSC for years and am trained at shooting weak hand, strong hand or both hands, but throwing shooters on the line without practicing this would be too risky.

I have shot stages that allowed a 5 second bonus if shot outlaw-style. It was not required since some shooters may have been nervous about sending a round somewhere other than at a target.

I am far from being the best shooter and am game for about anything but requiring cowboys to shoot a style that is recognized as a special challenge is very questionable. I would probably not return to shoot at that club again.