Doc Windshadow Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 This months Dillon catalog/magazine has a review of a new high tech Bullpup design pump shotgun with dual mag tubes providing 15 shots in a very compact package... in the review he says that all pump action shotguns have short stroke jamming problems... Not I can not speak to the 97 used in SASS as I have never had one (I shoot SxS for SASS) but I do own a Winchester Model 12 Black Diamond Grade Trap gun that My Grandfather won in major Trap shoot in the 1930s (straight stock[fantastic wood grain\ and full length vent rib with ivory beads) I shot trap with it a lot not sadly to the same high standard as Grand Dad Sadly but I did eventually shoot into class AA and must have put about 10,000 shells through it between 1970 and 1998 and I do not recall ever having a jam of any kind perhaps 20 or 30 duds that did not fire that were rapidly shucked except when the dud was the second shell but never a jam... So is what the Dillon reviewer said true? do all pump shotguns have a basic fault he called short stroke jamming? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you do NOT do a complete/full cycle of the action(s/gun, rifle & handgun)YEAH, it will hand up. NOT the fault of the firearm. Operator caused........ Not limited to just pump action weapons. Same goes for lever action, bolt action and SA revolvers Respectfully, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 If you do NOT do a complete/full cycle of the action(s/gun, rifle & handgun)YEAH, it will hand up. NOT the fault of the firearm. Operator caused........ Not limited to just pump action weapons. Same goes for lever action, bolt action and SA revolvers Respectfully, LG A perfect example of short stroking is what happens when you limp wrist a semi-auto. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Windshadow Posted August 23, 2011 Author Share Posted August 23, 2011 Then I wonder why the reviewer was making an issue out of it as I said I have never managed to jam my model 12 if it is only operator error I do nor see how it can be a fault of the gun... I have jammed my 73 by having one of the shucked empties bounce off of my hat brim and back into the open action and I can see how that could be considered a fault (fixed for example with a redesign by forcing an angled ejection or moving the ejection port to the side ) but not what this reviewer is talking about Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 Then I wonder why the reviewer was making an issue out of it as I said I have never managed to jam my model 12 if it is only operator error I do nor see how it can be a fault of the gun... I have jammed my 73 by having one of the shucked empties bounce off of my hat brim and back into the open action and I can see how that could be considered a fault (fixed for example with a redesign by forcing an angled ejection or moving the ejection port to the side ) but not what this reviewer is talking about Likely he just plain doesn't like pumps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 That would be the new KelTec shotgun. Interesting idea - twin mag tubes and the bullpup design. There was a review in Guns & Ammo last month, and there's a couple of YouTube videos too. Sounds like the author was just unfamiliar with the weapon and short-stroked it, and tried to mask that fact by making a blanket statement about all pumpers. Here's KelTec's site => http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg describing their latest offering. And the GunsAmerica video and review => http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-tec-ksg-pump-bull-pup-tactical-shotgun/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 That "writer" had a contract and a deadline which = $$$ in his pocket. That so-called "writer" didn't know one dang thing about what he spoke of. Respectfully, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 That would be the new KelTec shotgun. Interesting idea - twin mag tubes and the bullpup design. There was a review in Guns & Ammo last month, and there's a couple of YouTube videos too. Sounds like the author was just unfamiliar with the weapon and short-stroked it, and tried to mask that fact by making a blanket statement about all pumpers. Here's KelTec's site => http://www.keltecweapons.com/news/preview-kel-tec-shotgun-ksg describing their latest offering. And the GunsAmerica video and review => http://www.gunsamerica.com/blog/kel-tec-ksg-pump-bull-pup-tactical-shotgun/ ..... I didn't see it jam in that video ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Forty Rod SASS 3935 Posted August 23, 2011 Share Posted August 23, 2011 ..... I didn't see it jam in that video ...... Pending some experience to see if all the bugs have been stomped, I may be in love with a pump gun for the first time since the Ithaca M-37. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jacknife Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 "but I do own a Winchester Model 12 Black Diamond Grade Trap gun that My Grandfather won in major Trap shoot in the 1930s (straight stock[fantastic wood grain\ and full length vent rib with ivory beads) I shot trap with it a lot not sadly to the same high standard as Grand Dad Sadly but I did eventually shoot into class AA and must have put about 10,000 shells through it between 1970 and 1998 and I do not recall ever having a jam of any kind perhaps 20 or 30 duds that did not fire that were rapidly shucked except when the dud was the second shell but never a jam..." Doc, its hard to shortstroke a pump gun when ya only load one shell at a time. That's what they do it trap I hear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. James H. Callahan Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Only stands to reason. Short stroke ANY gun enough and it ain't gonna work. JHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363 Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 Pending some experience to see if all the bugs have been stomped, I may be in love with a pump gun for the first time since the Ithaca M-37. I'm with ya on this one FR. Granted, it looks like a Star Wars prop, but having 14+1 capability would have tactical advantages. Buckshot in one tube, slugs in the other, flip a lever to change ammo based on circumstances. Definitely a gamechanger. As with any new system, it's bound to have a few kinks to work out. Some people will probably razoo it because it is a Keltec, but I do recall Ruger rushing to market with a few designs that needed recalled & reworked. I'm also willing to bet we'll be seeing more of these bullpup designs in the future. They seem to be the way longarms are trending. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buckshot Frank Posted August 24, 2011 Share Posted August 24, 2011 I'm with ya on this one FR. Granted, it looks like a Star Wars prop, but having 14+1 capability would have tactical advantages. Buckshot in one tube, slugs in the other, flip a lever to change ammo based on circumstances. Definitely a gamechanger. As with any new system, it's bound to have a few kinks to work out. Some people will probably razoo it because it is a Keltec, but I do recall Ruger rushing to market with a few designs that needed recalled & reworked. I'm also willing to bet we'll be seeing more of these bullpup designs in the future. They seem to be the way longarms are trending. Agreed. It is a cool design. Keltec does have a tendancy to rush new products to market before completely ready (the PF9 is a good example), but they own up to their problems and take care of their customers, eventually ending up with a very nice product. Some people (like the folks on the KTOG forums) do not mind being beta testers for Keltec. I prefer to give them time to iron out the issues. I can see myself buying one of these down the road if it proves to be a reliable platform. It would make a heck of a home defense weapon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Windshadow Posted August 24, 2011 Author Share Posted August 24, 2011 Doc, its hard to shortstroke a pump gun when ya only load one shell at a time. That's what they do it trap I hear. not in doubles trap Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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