Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 LOOSE or NOT I have recently over the last month (4 matches) had some problems with my 73 not cycling properly. (5 gen SS kit installed at Winter Range from a 3rd gen) It is not an AOL problem nor an ammo issue but rather a mechanical problem. It worked great and I adjusted to the 5th generation SS fairly quick with no issues. After completing a shooting string at my last match I realized it might very well be an issue with the extractor because I found a spent casing still in place on the lifter being held by the extractor . I pulled the bolt assembly apart and found the extractor was quite sloppy as it sat in the bolt. I knocked out the holding pin and compared the old extractor to a new one I had ready to replace but observed it was in good condition with no obvious signs of wear. I cleaned out the seating area in the bolt and after cleaning everything properly put it back together and now found the extractor sat in place firmly with no wiggle. I reassembled the gun and cycled a few rounds with it finding the rounds were extracted with a lot more "snap" than before and no issues. My question is this - should that extractor be loose or firm as it sits in the bolt. I'm thinking it should be firm and my cleaning repaired the problem with it. I would appreciate an answer from those that know. The more I seem to learn - the less I seem to know!! Thanks Colt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 If the gun didn't kick the empty, ya didn't rack it fully. Mine's a LITTLE loose, but works every time. When it failed to EXTRACT (not eject) it was a headspace issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deuce Stevens SASS#55996 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Extractor should be firm, many guys will try to tune the extractor to within inch of it's life to get a better feeling gun. I prefer things to work all the time and when the adreline is going I will NEVER fell a tight extractor snapping over the catridge rim. Also unless you are anal about your headstamps with a loose extractor you will eventually have a split case that will not come out and you will get a double feed and thats a toough one to fix on the clock. Colt Mcalister and I believe Marshal Harland Wolff has been coil springing the extractor for years and I think it's a good compromise between a good feel and reliable extraction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 I'm no gunsmith, but my 73 was locking up on the last round, and the loose extractor was part of the problem. The last empty was pinched between the extractor and the carrier, cost me a safety at a big match. With a round on the carrier, the empty would be pushed out far enough to eject, but the last round didn't get the bump up. Manatee noted that my carrier was worn at the top enough to let the round slip down just a touch. New extractor helped, but the new carrier fixed it. The several knowledgeable 73 folks I asked agreed that the extractor should be firm in the bolt to insure reliable operation. Probably should have a good smith look it over. CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrison Joe, SASS #60708 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 "Sloppy in the bolt" and yet after cleaning the sloppiness went away? That is a little odd. Crud usually collects UNDER the front section of the extractor, which holds the hook of the extractor farther away from the rim than it normally would be. This weakens the grasp the extractor has on the rim, and results in the gun leaving spent cases in the chamber (usually on a split-case situation). However, with your reported problem, the extractor not letting the carrier eject the spent shell, sounds more like a poorly shaped extractor hook (grabbing too tightly) or a really badly worn carrier (as Cowboy Rick told you about). But, the crud under the front section holding the hook too high up could mean the carrier just was not pushing the case far enough to snap it out of the extractor hook, and cleaning brought the hook back down to the correct location, and ejection fixed itself. Point 1) you DO have to clean out the crud under the extractor sometimes. .45 Colt is one chambering that needs cleaning every year or so. With most other chamberings in 73 or 66 or Henry guns, the crud does not build up very fast. Point 2) the extractors do get soft and weak with use. Open the lever most of the way, and lightly pull up on the extractor hook with your finger tip or a piece of bent wire. There should be some resistance (that is the spring action of the extractor trying to hold it down on the rim of the case). A really easy pull means it's time for a new extractor, usually. Check the clearance side to side - the extractor should not be dragging on the side of the slot, nor wobbling visibly. And check the fit of the extractor hook over the rim of the case, and as the nose of the hook slides into the rear of the barrel (into the notch there). You don't want to see the extractor releasing itself from the rim (popping up) as the round chambers - that means the extractor is being given more chance to fail to pickup the rim as the bolt comes back. That problem is caused by the nose of the extractor being too large, pushing itself up as the bolt closes. Point 3) Some 0.069 "baling wire" makes a good replacement pin. The itty-bitty pin in the extractor from the factory almost always gets bent or lost during maintenance on the extractor. File it smooth with the bolt surface when you finish up. Point 4) Don't let any burrs develop on the hook of the extractor where they can lock onto the rim of cases. Stone it to have smooth contact surfaces - not changing shapes, just smoothing it. Good luck, GJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted August 19, 2011 Author Share Posted August 19, 2011 Thank you all for the replies and the information. Garrison Joe - I shall re-examine the extractor and check on the areas you pointed out, including the carrier. Deuce - I'll have things ready to make a respectble showing at Range War - see you there!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 The extractor should be more firm than loose because if it is loose, it may bounce over the rim and you'll be trying to rectify a double feed or two on the clock. Been there, done that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Kiowa Jones #6765 Posted August 19, 2011 Share Posted August 19, 2011 Extractor should be firm, many guys will try to tune the extractor to within inch of it's life to get a better feeling gun. I prefer things to work all the time and when the adreline is going I will NEVER fell a tight extractor snapping over the catridge rim. Also unless you are anal about your headstamps with a loose extractor you will eventually have a split case that will not come out and you will get a double feed and thats a toough one to fix on the clock. Colt Mcalister and I believe Marshal Harland Wolff has been coil springing the extractor for years and I think it's a good compromise between a good feel and reliable extraction. There's most of your answer. The rest is too many time folks do the short stroke kits timing them so they eject but that's as far as they get never noticing how much of a bind the SS kit has now put on the extractor. The simple answer is in a gun that has not been SS-ed pay attention to the angle of the spent cart as the carrier pushes it up. Now, time the SS gun to do the same. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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