Close targets and lawsuits

[Widder, SASS #59054]

I think of all my good SASS friends that have left this earth...just goes to show ya.

 

 

 

'........the GOOD leave us much too soon.'

 

 

..........Widder

[Brother King, SASS #69031]

As a party to civil suit in which a former distributor lost an eye while operating a product on my premises in an unsafe manner, I can tell you that in the end, right/wrong/indifferent the insurance company will most likely write the injured party a settlement check.

 

I our case the litigation lasted almost 10 years and cost well over $75,000. And, while we had done everything in our power in accordance with all standards properly; while the defendant and one of my dearest friends (then) ignored all instructions including those given to him by spectators who watched him doing it wrong, told him not to do it that way, provided him with additional devices to prevent injury which he ALSO ignored, refused and even bragged that he was "a professional" who didn't need it: He still sued for damages, injury, claimed negligence, etc. etc.

 

Insure yourself against the liability of the requirement to pay for the legal costs. Then do you best to use signs, waivers, instructions, shooter's meetings, member vigilance and show real concern in all ways for safety at your club NO EXCEPTIONS. At least that will prevent an award of "negligence".

 

But absolutely nothing will prevent a lawsuit from someone who is really harmed nor prevent lengthy litigation or an award in the end. That's why you buy the insurance and do your very best to limit your liability.

 

After all of it the insurance company paid him $250k. His attorneys got 40%.

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

As a party to civil suit in which a former distributor lost an eye while operating a product on my premises in an unsafe manner, I can tell you that in the end, right/wrong/indifferent the insurance company will most likely write the injured party a settlement check.

 

I our case the litigation lasted almost 10 years and cost well over $75,000. And, while we had done everything in our power in accordance with all standards properly; while the defendant and one of my dearest friends (then) ignored all instructions including those given to him by spectators who watched him doing it wrong, told him not to do it that way, provided him with additional devices to prevent injury which he ALSO ignored, refused and even bragged that he was "a professional" who didn't need it: He still sued for damages, injury, claimed negligence, etc. etc.

 

Insure yourself against the liability of the requirement to pay for the legal costs. Then do you best to use signs, waivers, instructions, shooter's meetings, member vigilance and show real concern in all ways for safety at your club NO EXCEPTIONS. At least that will prevent an award of "negligence".

 

But absolutely nothing will prevent a lawsuit from someone who is really harmed nor prevent lengthy litigation or an award in the end. That's why you buy the insurance and do your very best to limit your liability.

 

After all of it the insurance company paid him $250k. His attorneys got 40%.

 

 

HOW DARE YOU agree with TJB !!! We must NEVER NEVER do this as it would suggest he and others MAY be right. BAD,BAD Brother King you are not following the onointed one

 

T J B

[Phantom, SASS #54973]

HOW DARE YOU agree with TJB !!! We must NEVER NEVER do this as it would suggest he and others MAY be right. BAD,BAD Brother King you are not following the onointed one

 

T J B

 

So...what have you done for the game...lately?

 

It sucks that you've got good genes.

 

[Deacon Will]

I believe the Bevel Brothers (NMLRA) did an experiment(s) on/with steel targets. They used I believe a straight hanging steel plate or gong. It was printed in the Muzzle Blasts magazine.

 

The Brothers placed a box, as I recall over the steel plate and shot through the box, noting the pattern(s) the splatted lead took as it exited the box. They then added card board around the box and noted how many layers of cardboard the broken projectile could penetrate. They noted the size and weight of the splatted material.

 

They then set up cardboard and at the same distance shot the new card board with a variety of bullets, such as a .22 short with the lead cut/snipped to measure the weight of the splatted lead and started shooting at different ranges until penetration of the cardboard was achieved. They then could chronograph the projectile(s). If I remember correctly, they got up to 400-600 fps reading with 17 to 47+ grain projectiles.

 

I was given a 'copy' of this article yesterday at a match, but the ink had really deteriorated to the point the text could hardly be made out.

 

NO, this was not a scientific test, but still something to consider. The Brothers seemed to show that splatted projectile could in some cases produce injury or possibly worse.

 

If any one has this article, I would love to have a clean copy. NO, they didn't use cowboy type targets, but this might be fun to try with SASS 16" X 16" targets (AR450) at the varying ranges we shoot our matches at.

[Guest Texas Jack Black]

So...what have you done for the game...lately?

 

It sucks that you've got good genes.

 

 

 

I pay my dues just LIKE YOU. I must admit I can not walk on water like YOU. :lol: and even though you have wished me ill health or even that I die by your statement that it is too bad I have good genes .I would NEVER wish that on another human being. YOU have shown your true colors.

 

 

 

T J B

[J. Mark Flint #31954 LIFE]

When was the last time a ricochet of a lead bullet at a SASS match resulted in a major injury?

 

I spent the first ten years of my professional life worrying about "what if" sorts of torts. You see, I am smarter than a 5th grader and I am a practicing lawyer and have been for nearly 40 years. At some point I realized that if I allowed tort lawyers to rule my decision making process I would accomplish nothing in life. You try your best to avoid anybody being injured not out of fear of lawsuit, but because it is just right to try to keep people safe. If you think you have a risk, buy insurance. Let the insurance company lawyers lose sleep. If you are too stupid to buy insurance you deserve what you get.

 

Their is a world of difference between being sued and being liable. In the hypothetical postulated the parent club would probably be sued, but I can imagine all sorts of defenses. The insurance company lawyers would probably settle the case not because they thought they wouldn't win, but because they would conclude it is just cheaper and safter to pay some bucks. If the case is totally bogus and they have a really strong defense they will crush the plaintiff's lawyer. This thread is boring unless somebody can point to a ricochet of a lead bullet off a steel target that has resulted in a major injury.

 

 

As I said in my first post, a Wisconsin shooter lost an eye to a shotgun pellet ricochet five or six years ago. I would consider that major, then there was the kid that had ad's with both guns in the holsters at the loading table uin Indiana I believe, and while he was very lucky, his injuries were still significant.