BJT Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I found myself short of ammo by twenty rounds for FCGF yesterday. I found my C&B Rugers and used them for two stages. I forgot my custom long rammers and so loaded full loads. I had caps fragmenting and making operation less than smooth. Has any front stuffers noticed better reliability with light loads? A fellow came by and watched me load and asked about my choice of components. I use 777 and .457 balls. No lube and no wad. I think this may have scared him. Am I the only one to do this? Incidently, C&B GF is the most fun you can have with a trigger!!!!!! Cheers, BJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 The hammer spring serves two functions. It sets off the cap and it also seals the breach to keep hot gases going forward as much as possible. Depending on hammer tension, hot loads can blow the hammer back and cap frags can jam the action. A full load of 777 in a Ruger can be a pretty stout load. As an example. I chono'd 28 grains by volume of APP and the muzzle velocity out of a 5 1/2" barrel was a little over 600 fps. I dumped the powder out of the flask and refilled it with 777. The same volume of powder gave a muzzle velocity of over 1000 fps. The extra grunt can certainly blow the hammer back enough to cause cap frags to jam the action. As to question two, I don't use lube or a wad with the subs. (Except Pyrodex, which I don't use in a C&B anymore.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wasatch Lawman Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 C&Bs are scary to some, they just don't take the time to leearn about them. I myself use ROAs no lube or wad. I have extended rammers and use 25 grns of Goex Pennacle. Wasatch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yusta B. Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 The hammer spring serves two functions. It sets off the cap and it also seals the breach to keep hot gases going forward as much as possible. Depending on hammer tension, hot loads can blow the hammer back and cap frags can jam the action. A full load of 777 in a Ruger can be a pretty stout load. As an example. I chono'd 28 grains by volume of APP and the muzzle velocity out of a 5 1/2" barrel was a little over 600 fps. I dumped the powder out of the flask and refilled it with 777. The same volume of powder gave a muzzle velocity of over 1000 fps. The extra grunt can certainly blow the hammer back enough to cause cap frags to jam the action. As to question two, I don't use lube or a wad with the subs. (Except Pyrodex, which I don't use in a C&B anymore.) +1 - You're gonna be a lot happier with APP or, if you can find some, Pinnacle. I shoot .454 balls in my ROAs with a cardboard wad on top of the powder. No lube. Works great.(about 25 gr vol.) When/if it starts to get a little hard to seat ball, I take the cyl out (after powder is loaded & wad seated)& clean chamber with a bore brush with just a little moose milk dribbled on it. Usually have to swab them out once during a match. YMMV PS - or carry a little cornmeal with ya for just such an occasion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicken Coop SASS 5791 L Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I cannot speak for "LIGHT LOADS". Never used them. Never used fillers either. When I shot my Remmies and my ROAs the cylinder chambers were always loaded to the max (appx. 40 gr.) Anything less was "not full". Therefore, I have no experience with "light loads". Chicken Coop Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trueno del Diablo, SASS#22364L Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 As far as light loads fragging caps, it depends. . The factory nipples did work better with lighter loads. Haven't had any issues with heavy loads since I switched to Treso nipples. Sometimes get a small sliver of cap blown right out of the center that gets caught in the notch in the hammer. Tryed the Hellgate mod and filled in the notch. Seems to have eliminated that little glitch. Need to make it a more permanent fix as I'm not sure how long the JB weld is going to hold up. As for lube, the original Colt loading instructions that came with the pistols did not call for lube or wads of any kind. It's strictly a modern loading practice and really isn't necessary from a safety standpoint, assuming the balls fit correctly. That said, I do lube the chamber mouths, mostly to help keep things turning for 30 rounds. Don't think Colt intended his pistols to be loaded and fired as much in one sitting as we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Loving Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I found myself short of ammo by twenty rounds for FCGF yesterday. I found my C&B Rugers and used them for two stages. I forgot my custom long rammers and so loaded full loads. I had caps fragmenting and making operation less than smooth. Has any front stuffers noticed better reliability with light loads? A fellow came by and watched me load and asked about my choice of components. I use 777 and .457 balls. No lube and no wad. I think this may have scared him. Am I the only one to do this? Incidently, C&B GF is the most fun you can have with a trigger!!!!!! Cheers, BJT First the light load topic: I do light load the cyclinder. Piette says 19grns FFF min in their .44 cal. I'm loading about 15grns n my C&B's are plenty load n smoke a lot n have never had a squib in them. It will help some as far a caps dislodging but sometimes that's just part of the game reguardless of what brand revolver or loads. Caps aren't closely inspected at the factory thay well. Fact is the manufacture I spoke with about caps stated they can't tell from packaging just how old the tin of caps are. I try not to get the hammer spring too light cause as mentioned above IMHO is the biggest problem with too much flash back. Baring a cap failure my guns run pretty good. Additionally, I cast my own deep grove bullet n don't use round balls. Never use a wad. I use the EPP-UG mold sold by Dick Dastardly. I also have 14 cyclinders so they are fresh each stage. On a six stage day I don't have to swab out the barrell, but do wipe down the base pin n quickly wipe the cone after each stage. I only shoot Holy Black, but did try all the other in the early days. I use a Magma Lubersizer to size n lubing. I also like to shoot them GF when practising. It is a hoot. Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 When you actually use a cap & ball pistol, not the abomination of a Ruger, along with the one true powder, THEN you'll know the joy and satisfaction of firing a gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Rick, SASS #49739L Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I had the mainspring tensioner screw back out on one of my 58 Remies. Usually shoot 26 gr, but had the 30gr spout, so I used it this time. Two quick shots with one trigger pull (both hit the double tap target). More pressure on the hammer will send a C&B with weak springs into full auto! CR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 My ROA's are stock except for Tresco nipples. With the long loading rams I load 18grains Goex FFG, wonder wad with 50/50 beeswax and Crisco and. .454 ball.. Meets the smoke req. And the recoil is enough to help cycle the hammer. I find it comfortable to shoot and faster. With the wads I don't touch them for 6 stages. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider, SASS #72622 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 When you actually use a cap & ball pistol, not the abomination of a Ruger, along with the one true powder, THEN you'll know the joy and satisfaction of firing a gun. It is a joy...except when only three or four of the five loaded cylinders go off! Then, you start pricing the abominations... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chantry Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 I normally run 2 5.5" Remington 58 Pietta's with .454 cast round ball, no lube and either 25 or 30 grains of 2F Triple 777. After 2 years I have not had a chain fire or failed to have a knock down stay up and I find the recoil fairly mild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fordyce Beals Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 BJT asks 2 questions: I had caps fragmenting. At the unloading table I find none, one or two caps jamed in to the cylinder cone window and the rest gone (or on the right hand between the grip and palm, they are hot!). They are always fragmented and never stay on the cone. (Remington NMA) I use 777 and .457 balls. No lube and no wad. Am I the only one to do this? I do all the same except for .454 dia pure lead ball. Incidently, C&B GF is the most fun you can have with a trigger!!!!!! You got that correct. Fordyce Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdy Doody Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 BJT. Since I am danged sure I will be seeing you in a couple weeks, just ask me over lunch. I can at least let you know what I know after these many years of experimenting with those most enjoyable six shooters. However, I will be shooting Vaqueros this time around to game it up a bit. I think I might be responsible, since I got you into 777 and away from RWS and what about those cool rammers? Yup, I am looking forward to shooting with you once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BJT Posted August 1, 2011 Author Share Posted August 1, 2011 When you actually use a cap & ball pistol, not the abomination of a Ruger, along with the one true powder, THEN you'll know the joy and satisfaction of firing a gun. You can make an argument about nostalgia but there are two things that are absolutley true. ROA are C&B revolvers. ROA are the best built ones on the planet. I shot Remmies for a couple of years. Seers wore away, the grip was way too small for normal hands, the cylinder pin allowed way too much junk in and the metal around the cones were a pain in the butt. Oh yeah and caps fell into my gripping hand. Don't even get me started on Colt pattern revolvers. They need an expensive mod just to keep caps out of the lock work. History is all fine and good but I will take superior engineering every day of the week. But I am happy you enjoy crappy cap guns. The market for ROAs is way too short on supply and way to long on demand. Very Best Regards, BJT Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
irish ike, SASS #43615 Posted August 1, 2011 Share Posted August 1, 2011 If you're shooting for a buckle or something else then you want an ROA in your hand. I shot 8" and 5 1/2" Remmie's for 9 years. I did get them to shoot consistent, but in a big match seems a cap problem or something else would happen. They are now my backup guns. Even with all of Larsen Pettifoggers tips on how to get the colts to work they are still the least dependable.. Shooting the ROA's all I have to do is worry about my shooting ability. Ike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mason Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 When I shoot ROA's I only load between 18 and 22 grains ( measured) of FFFG Real Black. Varies with 18 for my 150 gr big lube boolits or 22 grains for a round ball. No wads . Mercy what a great load for those ROA's. Almost no recoil ( just enough to help with cocking) and hits the target just fine. When I am rich and famous I'll load full house loads and burn that powder outside the end of the barrel. LOL Just my $0.02 worth. Mason Stillwell BP C&B shooter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sgt. Hochbauer, SASS #64409 Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 I have a pair of 51 Navies in 44 cal.Having switched over to Tresso nipples they are very reliable.I use about 20 gr of 2ff Goex.Also use the lubed wads from circle fly rather than wonder wads.Being frugal I cut then in 3rds so a bag goes a long way for me as I do not shoot them as often as I should. Sgt. H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted August 2, 2011 Share Posted August 2, 2011 My ROAs are boxed stock except for the nipples which I swap the OEM ones for Treso nipples and never had a problem with loads between 15 and 25gns By Volume. I pour the powder in set the ball and use a loading press to seat the ball. You need to take them apart every stage and wipe the residue off with Windex with Viniger. I doubt I have ever shot them with full powder loads in them. My ROAs do not have the loading rams installed in case the lever ever drops I can finish shooting before having to reseat it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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