Colt Lightning Advice

[Sagerider]

During my last match, my Win 1873 gave me enough problems to cause me to leave the stage. Without knowing if I could continue, a Pard offered me the use for his 1885 Colt Lightning for the remainder of the match. Had my doubts about shooting a rifle I had never fired before but things went surprisingly well. In fact, the Lightning performed flawlessly. As to model, manufacturer or work, I have no clue. Too busy shooting and enjoying myself to look or ask. I will correct that at our next match if the Pard returns. But, I believe I have seen more that one comment regarding the Lightning that was less than complementary. Are there lingering concerns about this rifle in any specific caliber? I could be interested in a Lightning but want to know a little more about them before becoming serious. Thanks for the advice. Sagerider

[Dubious Don #56333]

I'm surprised there aren't any responses yet!

 

Ok, here's the skinny;

Don't think I've seen any original Colt rifles out there. Probably are but shooting a 100+ year old rifle is a labor of love. Heavy underscore on the labor if you get my drift.

 

Modern reproductions are made by a number of companies, Beretta, AWA and of course Taurus among others. I'm sure eventually enough pards with personal experience will chime in on their experiences; I have none with the beretta or AWA but I know several pards that have them and they seem reliable enough. The only one of these I have had personal experience with is the Taurus Thunderbolt and to that I can only say...just say no.

 

The Beretta's and AWA's will run ya around a grand. The T-bolt was less than 500 bucks. Worth every penny. The first one I got didn't work very well, jammed more than it shot. Taurus took their sweet time getting the rifle back to me and the one I eventually got back was a different gun. It worked a bit better than the first but not by much. Of my close pards who bought one, they learned the same lesson I did; it's a turkey and unless you want to spend money tinkering and fussing with the real possibility it might not ever be right, just say no.

 

There are a few pards on this here wire who seem to have had good success tuning this rifle but I'd have to say, you get what you pay for!

[Tom Bullweed]

The Lightning (like the '92) was designed to lift a bottleneck cartridge at an angle into the chamber. The replicas made today all use straight-wall cartridges which bring some new issues. Three choices:

1) Original running $1200 and up. Reload the original .32, .38 or .44 WCF bottleneck cartridge. Not so difficult, but more so than our .38 Specials and .45 Colts.

2) The Beretta, AWA, USFA and other $1000+ guns can be made to run by a very limited number of smiths. No top gunners that I ahve seen are using these guns.

3) Taurus (or the #2 guns without a reliability job) and know thee limitations.

This could be an exciting adventure. We have a shooter in NC that does well with a smithed AWA. The higher placing shooters are still firing toggle-lock Ubertis and Marlin cowboys.

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

For a while, I was considering getting a Lighting.

 

For a long time, I had seen the following opinions of various Lightnings on the Wire.

 

AWA: Works really well.

 

USFA: Works well, but hard to come by.

 

Beretta: Not seen much commentary

 

Taurus: Useful as a tomato stake, but not much more

 

Orignal Colts: A mixed bag. Some praise them, some say they are prone to problems.

 

When it came time for me to finally get one, I had a chance to handle an AWA, a Beretta, and a Taurus.

 

I found the AWA to be smooth and got the impression that it was a good gun.

 

The Beretta, by comparison, seemed kinda klunky to me.

 

The Taurus then felt like it's action was klunk, rough and like it was lined with sandpaper.

 

I bought the AWA.

 

It was a used gun, and as far as I know, is as it was when it came from the factory. Caliber is .45 Colt. I have shot 3 matches with it, and it has worked flawlessly every time. Never had any issues with it of any kind. And, I can run it REALLY fast.

 

Bottom line, if you wanna get one, go with the AWA.

[Deadeye Dallas, SASS #60249]

For a while, I was considering getting a Lighting.

 

For a long time, I had seen the following opinions of various Lightnings on the Wire.

 

AWA: Works really well.

 

USFA: Works well, but hard to come by.

 

Beretta: Not seen much commentary

 

Taurus: Useful as a tomato stake, but not much more

 

Orignal Colts: A mixed bag. Some praise them, some say they are prone to problems.

 

When it came time for me to finally get one, I had a chance to handle an AWA, a Beretta, and a Taurus.

 

I found the AWA to be smooth and got the impression that it was a good gun.

 

The Beretta, by comparison, seemed kinda klunky to me.

 

The Taurus then felt like it's action was klunk, rough and like it was lined with sandpaper.

 

I bought the AWA.

 

It was a used gun, and as far as I know, is as it was when it came from the factory. Caliber is .45 Colt. I have shot 3 matches with it, and it has worked flawlessly every time. Never had any issues with it of any kind. And, I can run it REALLY fast.

 

Bottom line, if you wanna get one, go with the AWA.

Where are all these bargin priced Taurus tomato stakes I keep hearing about? With a little work they work as good as or better than other Lightnings.

 

 

AWA is a good rifle and I own one. But go figure on this, I have a box full of parts from Taurus and I can't get a single washer from AWA.

 

Dallas

[H. K. Uriah, SASS #74619]

Where are all these bargin priced Taurus tomato stakes I keep hearing about? With a little work they work as good as or better than other Lightnings.

 

AWA is a good rifle and I own one. But go figure on this, I have a box full of parts from Taurus and I can't get a single washer from AWA.

 

Dallas

 

Let me amend my original comments by saying I have recently seen posts by several people saying that a fellow name of Deadeye Dallas can work magic on the Tauruses to make them work right.

 

The above video proves the truth of these comments.

[Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933]

If you want to run a Lightning and you are into serious competition then the gun needs to become a second hobby for you and you need to learn how to repair it and keep it running yourself. A Lightning will never be as reliable as a 73. Doesn't matter if it is an original or one of the various clones (some of which have actions that have been "updated" by the manufacturers). The basic design simply will never be as reliable as a toggle link gun. They run like scalded dogs when set up right, but you have to be prepared and know what to do when they wear a bit and start having problems. There are lots of people that can work on a 73. There are very few people that can work on a Lightning.

[Red Hooker]

I haven't got a Lightning, but have been watching posts about Lightnings since they came out, as I was interested in an alternative/backup to my '92 (not that I think I'll need a backup, ten or so years and no problems yet).Lack of $$$ the last few years has forestalled any plans to aquire.

What I've heard is:

Pedersoli (why has no-one mentioned them yet??) and AWA-USA- best.

Others, except Taurus- OK or can be made to work.

Taurus- run like #&!! the other way!!

[Marshal TKD, Sass # 36984L]

I have a AWA in 45 colt. The gun gets dirty and gums up after about 150 rounds. Box stock gun with no work to it. Runs like a scalded dog when off the clock. When the buzzer goes of the shooter has a disconnect that effects the timing of the rifle.

[John Boy]

Deadeye Dallas worked the innards of the Thunderbolt over doing many modifications. He told me that he opened and closed the rifle about 30 times working on it. I ran 50 Ideal 454190 RNFP reloads through the rifle when it came home with several different COL's. The rounds were magazine loaded in 5 and 10 round batches. All rounds were shot Slam Fired with the rifle in a HORIZONTAL POSITION. That means the rifle was not vertical, I turned it over on it's side

 

To those that shoot levers ... let me know if 50 rounds can be shot Slam Fired with the receiver in a horizontal position!

 

I had 4 rounds that stove piped when they went up against the top of the chamber. I hand extracted them and put in my pocket. ALL rounds stayed on the carrier, none dropped below the carrier and the 46 that were shot extracted perfectly. The COL of the 4 rounds out of 50 were:

1.60 – can understand

1.595 – can understand

1.580 (2 rounds) … ?

 

To have 4 rounds malfunction out of 50, being slam fired in a horizontal position, I believe it to be a NO Big Deal. Have to understand, the 50 round box was multiples of other 1.60 -1.595 – 1.590 – 1.585 – 1.580 – 1.575 – 1.570 and 1.565 COL reloads.

So there were other rounds, the same length of the ones that stove piped … that didn’t. And am sure if the 4 misfits were shot with the gun in a vertical position – all rounds would have chambered – fired and extracted

 

Dallas recommends that the COL should be 1.575

 

Now for the words of warning to the BP shooters:

If you plan on using PRS Big Lube bullets ... Forget it! Because the bullets have a short ogive and large wide metplat, there is a good possibility they will jam up in the 'J' portion of the guides. This 'J' part is 70 thousands long before the guides are completely straight. I calculated that the COL of the PRS rounds would have to be in the neighborhood of 1.545 ... too short. I manually fed the Big Lubes with a COL of 1.570 - 1.590 and 1.60. With out firing them, tried to extract them and they all jammed up in the 'J' part of the guides. Had to dig them out with a screwdriver.

You need a bullet that has a longer tapered ogive and a small metplat like the Lyman 454190

http://www.three-peaks.net/images/454190_250g.gif

Bottom Line – I am 100% Satisfied. Dallas did a Great Job!

[Dalton Masterson, SASS #51139]

I recommend the Pedersoli version. Mine came from Cimarron, but I think someone else imports it now too. No troubles yet after several years of use.

 

Pedersoli does not have the ability to slam fire, some of the others and the originals do. This may not matter to you.

 

IF you do plan on shooting black, get a bottleneck caliber though. Lots of blowback leads to a dirty action, which is probably the only problem mine has.

 

As far as the Big LUbes in my Lightning, they work fine. I shoot the 250s and the 200s.

 

DM

[Filthy Lucre, 55674L]

I have 2 originals, both shooters. After a trip to El Rod about 6 years ago I have never had any problems with them mechanically. Getting the correct OAL is the key, cause they are picky.Great gun, There is a reason they made the originals in bottleneck calibers.

[Badlands Beady]

I recommend the Pedersoli version. Mine came from Cimarron, but I think someone else imports it now too.

 

The Pedersolis from EMF are on sale, kinda. That's where I got mine.

[NV Turtle, SASS 16150]

I too, have an original, 1899, 32-20, "built" by El Rod. It's a shooter but I don't like loading 32-20, so I don't shoot it much. It really likes BP. I'd sell it, but I have $2400 in it.

 

NV Turtle

[Fingers McGee]

I have an AWA limited edition in 44-40. Once I got the die adjusted down enough to set the shoulder back and got the COL right, it runs just fine with BP and subs and a 200 gr. big lube bullet.

 

Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee

[Gunstock Smith]

I, too, have a Pedersoli in 44/40. It is a shooting machine right outta the box!! It is also extremely accurate.

 

Gunstock Smith

[Go West]

Momma shoots an AWA lightning and it's been maintained. I had the guides & carrier replaced once. Last time w/ issues, the pivot hole in the bottom of the bolt elongated causing the firing pin to retract into the bolt just before pulling the trigger. Had someone tig the hole and I redrilled it. It's going fast and strong. Come out to Bordertown this year and watch it run. Had issues with her backup gun that allows cartridges to slip under the carrier. I'm told it's fixed now, so she can test it as soon as next weekend. It's true that not everyone can work on these. I can replace guides, but much more complicated than that, I need to call someone.

[Blackey Cole]

As farv as customer support for SASS AWA is the way to go but you may pay twice that of the Taurus. I have the latter and while I don't shoot it much I have found that if I do my part and do everything smoothly it runs fine but, and it is a big but. I had to remove some of the parts that Taurus added to the Original design and polish the He double toothpicks out of everything. I haven't went as far with it as some to check torrences at key plasces and correct them to assist in reliable operation. If you can tinker on a gun and make it work and understand what everything is doing then the Taurus may be the option but if you are not mechanically inclined then get the AWA and have chuck get it race ready.