Official horse cavalry reloading technique

[J-BAR #18287]

A fellow shooter demonstrated how the Army supposedly taught its cavalry troops to unload and reload the 1873 Colt...maintain your grip on the revolver butt with the right hand and manipulate the cylinder and ejector rod with the left hand. Looks cool, takes a bit of practice.

 

Can any of you historians confirm that this technique was taught to soldiers as the "official" way to do it?

[Noz]

Don't tell me you're buying a horse!

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

Gotta ask... by chance are you two pards related...?

[Jack Houston # 35508]

That's why they tried the Schofield for awhile.

[J-BAR #18287]

Gotta ask... by chance are you two pards related...?

 

 

Yes, he's my father...

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

Hey J-Bar

 

Every body knows ya hold a SAA in your left hand ,by the grip and run the ejector and load with your right , if ya are left handed , that is .

 

CB

[Bodine]

I've pondered for years why Colt made the loading gate on the right instead of the left. It sure would make things simpler and safer to keep hold of the gun with the right hand and do all the unloading/reloading with the left. But then I'm just weird I guess.

 

Bodine

[Subdeacon Joe]

Yes, he's my father...

 

I read your post, then saw the post by Noz. Just barely noticed the avatars and wondered "Why is he answering himself?" Then I checked the names and really looked at the avatars.

 

Do the two of you sound alike?

[J-BAR #18287]

I read your post, then saw the post by Noz. Just barely noticed the avatars and wondered "Why is he answering himself?" Then I checked the names and really looked at the avatars.

 

Do the two of you sound alike?

 

 

Yes, we both shoot Frontiersman, so we sound a lot alike on the shooting line.

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

Folks

 

I am of the opunion that the SAA was designed by a SOUTH PAW , due to its release some 10 years after SAM COLT's death , It was most likely designed by some one else .

One Great peice of engenerring and manfacture , only thing that comes close is JM Browning's 1911 .

 

CB

[Noz]

Yes, we both shoot Frontiersman, so we sound a lot alike on the shooting line.

 

Now son, I'll let your indescretions(shooting ROOgers) go for now but don't be spreading the fact that we're related. Doesn't do anything for either of our reputations.

 

 

By the way, when are you coming home for supper?

 

 

For those concerned about me and my look alike, here's how to tell us apart.

I'm 6'3" and 260 pounds of blue twisted steel.

When me and J-Bar stand together, I'm the little one. He's lost a lot of weight but he's still bigger.

[Train Robber 13659]

The loading gate is on the right due to the direction of the cylinders rotation !

 

Do you really want to pass 5 live cartridges under the hammer while loading ?!!

 

FWIW I do spin the cylinder to double check for a high primer :-)

 

Train Robber

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Folks

 

I am of the opunion that the SAA was designed by a SOUTH PAW , due to its release some 10 years after SAM COLT's death , It was most likely designed by some one else .

One Great peice of engenerring and manfacture , only thing that comes close is JM Browning's 1911 .

 

CB

If it's designed for a left handed shooter, the why is the trigger offset in the WRONG direction?

 

Check it out, the trigger is offset towards the left on a SAA and clones. For the right handed shooter, that makes it easier to get the trigger finger in the right spot for a clean trigger pull. for a left handed shooter, it actually makes it HARDER to do so.

 

To load while mounted, you were to put the gun in your reins (left) hand and do all the fine manipulation like ejection of empties and reloading with your dominant(right) hand.

[J-BAR #18287]

To load while mounted, you were to put the gun in your reins (left) hand and do all the fine manipulation like ejection of empties and reloading with your dominant(right) hand.

 

Hi SJ;

 

Do you have a reference for that, like an old army manual or something?

[Alpo]

The loading gate of a Single Action Army is on the right side because the capping notch or a cap-n-ball revolver is on the right side.

 

For the 90% of the world that is right handed, you take the big hunk of iron and hold it in your left hand. Then you take the itty bitty percussion caps and, using your dextrous right hand, put them on the nipple.

 

That worked so well that they continued it when they went to cartridges. You hold the big heavy hunk of iron in your left hand while manipulating the much smaller cartridges into the little holes, with your dexterous right hand.

 

If, as people keep saying, the Colt was designed by a left-handed person, why does the Remington work the same way?

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953]

A fellow shooter demonstrated how the Army supposedly taught its cavalry troops to unload and reload the 1873 Colt...maintain your grip on the revolver butt with the right hand and manipulate the cylinder and ejector rod with the left hand. Looks cool, takes a bit of practice.

 

Can any of you historians confirm that this technique was taught to soldiers as the "official" way to do it?

 

This is an intersting question and I posted it in two places where folks who should know hang out. I got one answer from a very knowledgeable and helpful gentleman named Drydock:

 

Reins in left hand, revolver in right hand, open loading gate with right thumb. Use left palm heel to advance cylinder, left pointer/index finger to eject. Transfer empty revolver to left hand, go to pouch with right hand and reload.

 

This was how it was described to me. I've never found a published Milspec "Method" for either weapon, and I tend to think that it was assumed the troops would figure out the best method that worked for them. It really seems that specific reload drill died with muzzleloaders. I do have an 1861 manual of arms for the percussion colt revolver thats quite involved!

 

Note that the left hand is also the bridle hand. That means it normally carries the reins. So perhaps the loading gate arrangement has nothing to do with anyone being a "southpaw" and everthing to do with the way riders are taught to handle the reins.

 

He further went on to note:

 

It must also be remembered that US Cavalry was trained to fight dismounted. A mounted charge in the face of rifled weapons was considered unwise, and discouraged. Movies aside, indians fought dismounted for the most part as well.

 

This little bit of history is very important.

 

The last field manual I can find that considered mounted use of the M1911 says:

 

42. To LOAD PISTOL.—The commands are: 1. LOAD, 2. PISTOL.

At the command PISTOL, lower the pistol into the bridle hand.

If a loaded magazine is not already in the pistol, insert one.

Grasp the stock with the right hand, back of the hand down,

and thrust upward and to the left front; release the slide and

engage the safety lock.

 

So now you're ready for mounted shooting in any era (assuming, of course, you master that 1861 manual).

 

SQQ

[Bodine]

The loading gate is on the right due to the direction of the cylinders rotation !

 

Do you really want to pass 5 live cartridges under the hammer while loading ?!!

 

FWIW I do spin the cylinder to double check for a high primer :-)

 

Train Robber

 

Nope, I figger if they woulda put the loading gate on the left, the cylinder would spin counter-clockwise too. But like I said, I'm just plain weird and sometimes I think too much.

 

 

Bodine

[Bodine]

The loading gate of a Single Action Army is on the right side because the capping notch or a cap-n-ball revolver is on the right side.

 

For the 90% of the world that is right handed, you take the big hunk of iron and hold it in your left hand. Then you take the itty bitty percussion caps and, using your dextrous right hand, put them on the nipple.

 

That worked so well that they continued it when they went to cartridges. You hold the big heavy hunk of iron in your left hand while manipulating the much smaller cartridges into the little holes, with your dexterous right hand.

 

If, as people keep saying, the Colt was designed by a left-handed person, why does the Remington work the same way?

 

But then they made capper devices so you wouldn't have to fish them itty-bitty caps out of a small pouch and drop 'em all over creation. Most fellers in my neck of the woods had three to eight pistols and/or multiple cylinders pre-loaded. Missourah Partisans had it figgered out pretty well, and wreaked havoc on dismounted cavalry with single shot rifles from horse back with pistols. Changing cylinders was done with the left hand while holding the frame in the right hand. Done this a time or two. Mosby and his Rangers operated much the same way. All those fellers learned to use both hands and were pretty dang good at it. Too bad the U.S. Army never learned to use those tactics.

 

Anyhow, doesn't change what is and what was, I just wonder why it didn't happen differently is all. Sometimes I have too much time on my hands I reckon.

 

Respectfully submitted.

 

Bodine

[Subdeacon Joe]

Most fellers in my neck of the woods had three to eight pistols and/or multiple cylinders pre-loaded. Missourah Partisans had it figgered out pretty well, and wreaked havoc on dismounted cavalry with single shot rifles from horse back with pistols. Changing cylinders was done with the left hand while holding the frame in the right hand.

Respectfully submitted.

 

Bodine

 

Sir, I have been trying to find letters, diaries, any sort of account that confirms that more than one extra cylinder was carried, especially after the advent of the loading lever.

 

The only referneces I have been able to find about extra cylinders is that the TX Rangers were issued two Patterson Revolvers and two extra cylinders (one for each gun?) since the Patterson didn't have a way to reload it without breaking down the gun. And one memo about some troops at the Presidio in San Francisco were issued a revolver with one extra cylinder. I've lost the link to that second one, but I think it was from the early 1850s.

[Bodine]

Without digging out my books and going to the library, the first best reference can think of is the most recent study on the border war in Kansas and Missourah. I don't have my own copy yet, I'm trying to remember the full title and authors name... I'll have to look it up. For another source, try the Bushwhacker museum in Nevada Mo. They had a good reference library there at one time. The Partisan rangers were not your usual breed, they spent most of their time on the hoof and didn't do a lot of writing about it. I can tell you that I had in my posession a cylinder from my G Grandpa's farm in Cass County, Mo. found when I was seven or eight years old in one of their old campsites outside of Pleasant Hill,Mo. It had three broken nipples and two lead bullets still in it. It came up missing when I was sharing a trailer with an old runnin mate. I will spend some time going through my notes and books because have studied this intensively for my self and for my Bachelors in social studies. I wrote some papers for a couple of my history classes on the subject. I am nuts about it, but have been busy with other areas of history in preparation for beginning my teaching career. It was more common to have multiple pistols, but there were those who carried cylinders as well. The Bushwhacker shirts had pockets sewn on them for the express purpose of carrying them. They were sewn at angles (Think cross-draw) and lower than a standard pocket. Anyhow, I'll dig around and come up with the information as soon as I get the chance to. Getting ready for a float trip and we are leaving in the morning.

 

Bodine

 

*edited* well of course as soon as i hit the post I remebered the book and author:

 

http://www.amazon.com/Civil-Missouri-Kansas-Border-Donald-Gilmore/dp/1589803299

 

This is the best I've ever read on the subject. It's the first truly objective study I know of.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Thank you, sir. I've passed on the "they carried extra cylinders" line at reenactments, but got to thinking about it and other than passing on what someone else told me, and what is a common practice now, I don't have any solid documentation for it being a common practice back in the day. I like to have some sort of solid doc for things I pass on.

 

A few months ago someone asked me "What kind of grease did they use on the axles of wagons and gun carriages?" To which I had to say, "Uh....Good question! I have no idea." We then had about a five minute discussion on what might have been used during the Civil War as axle grease. My guess, and I emphasized that it was only a guess, was that it was animal fat of some sort since there really wasn't a petroleum industry then. Some research (asking on various fora) got me references to the 1862 US and 1863 CS Ordnance Manuals, which call for rendered lard. Tallow may be used to.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Yes, he's my father...

 

I see you inherited his looks.

[J-BAR #18287]

For those concerned about me and my look alike, here's how to tell us apart.

I'm 6'3" and 260 pounds of blue twisted steel.

When me and J-Bar stand together, I'm the little one. He's lost a lot of weight but he's still bigger.

 

 

Well, taller at least...

[Bodine]

Thank you, sir. I've passed on the "they carried extra cylinders" line at reenactments, but got to thinking about it and other than passing on what someone else told me, and what is a common practice now, I don't have any solid documentation for it being a common practice back in the day. I like to have some sort of solid doc for things I pass on.

 

A few months ago someone asked me "What kind of grease did they use on the axles of wagons and gun carriages?" To which I had to say, "Uh....Good question! I have no idea." We then had about a five minute discussion on what might have been used during the Civil War as axle grease. My guess, and I emphasized that it was only a guess, was that it was animal fat of some sort since there really wasn't a petroleum industry then. Some research (asking on various fora) got me references to the 1862 US and 1863 CS Ordnance Manuals, which call for rendered lard. Tallow may be used to.

 

Gettin' ready to load up the canoes and thought I'd pop in real quick. I want to be sure we are on the same page her. Are you loking for reference for Union cavalry/army carrying extra cylinders? If so then I can say I have nothing regarding that. All I ever found were two former guerillas and some scattered contemporary accounts of the guerillas sometimes carrying extras, but in no way am I trying to say it was "common" as in many did, only a few and even I will admit from my own "experimental archeology" practice, it is a poor substitute for carrying extra pistols and very impractcial from horseback.

 

It worked well with my Remingtons, but the Colts were darn near impossible because you have to hang on to the barrel and not lose the wedge while trying to change cylinders witout dropping anything. The common practice was, of course, multiple pistols. Where the extra cylinders came into play was when the guerillas were dismounted and either attcking or in defense on the ground.

 

The two skirmishes that come to mind are the one at Danville, where guerillas attacked the Union troops holed up in the courthouse unsuccessfully, and the one outside of Pleasant Hill known as the Battle of the Ravines. The guerillas were in a two hour battle with Union army and cavalry and used up darn near all their ammo before a few made a suicide charge to cover the escape of the survivors. This is not far from where I lved and also near where I found the discarded cylinder when I was a pup. Anyhow, next week I'll look for those refernces and I'll send what I have via PM.

 

Have a good weekend, we'll be swaeting and dragging canoes over sandbars it sounds like.

 

Bodine

[Subdeacon Joe]

Gettin' ready to load up the canoes and thought I'd pop in real quick. I want to be sure we are on the same page her. Are you loking for reference for Union cavalry/army carrying extra cylinders? If so then I can say I have nothing regarding that. All I ever found were two former guerillas and some scattered contemporary accounts of the guerillas sometimes carrying extras, but in no way am I trying to say it was "common" as in many did, only a few and even I will admit from my own "experimental archeology" practice, it is a poor substitute for carrying extra pistols and very impractcial from horseback.

 

It worked well with my Remingtons, but the Colts were darn near impossible because you have to hang on to the barrel and not lose the wedge while trying to change cylinders witout dropping anything. The common practice was, of course, multiple pistols. Where the extra cylinders came into play was when the guerillas were dismounted and either attcking or in defense on the ground.

 

The two skirmishes that come to mind are the one at Danville, where guerillas attacked the Union troops holed up in the courthouse unsuccessfully, and the one outside of Pleasant Hill known as the Battle of the Ravines. The guerillas were in a two hour battle with Union army and cavalry and used up darn near all their ammo before a few made a suicide charge to cover the escape of the survivors. This is not far from where I lved and also near where I found the discarded cylinder when I was a pup. Anyhow, next week I'll look for those refernces and I'll send what I have via PM.

 

Have a good weekend, we'll be swaeting and dragging canoes over sandbars it sounds like.

 

Bodine

 

That will be great, thank you. And that is pretty much what I'm looking for. When someone asks me "I saw in a movie a guy reloading his pistol. Didn't they just carry a bunch of extra cylinders?" I want to be on fairly solid ground when I say something like "Well, there are some accounts of some guerrillas and irregulars doing that, it doesn't seem to have been a common practice. If anything, extra pistols were carried, not just extra cylinders." It's hard enough to convince people that the studio photos showing a guy with a bayoneted musket in the crook of his arm, a revolver in one hand, bowie knife the size of a cutlass in the other, two or three more revolvers in his belt, along with one other knife and sword is not the typical soldier in the field.

 

Hope you have/had a great time on the river.

[Subdeacon Joe]

Found one of them!

 

From "Ten Years in the Saddle" (Memoirs of W. W. Averell, edited by E. K. Eckert and N. J. Amato: San Rafael CA, Presidio Press 1979:

 

“When the old dragoon revolver was first made, a dozen of them were sent to his regiment in for trial…each pistol had two cylinders, both of which were kept loaded so that when the one in the pistol had been exhausted it could be removed and replaced by the extra one in a moment. Now said the Colonel [named Harney] (warmly), “No man can be such a blankety-blank fool as not to see the importance of not losing the extra cylinder, for if lost you will have only six shots…” (88-89)

 

Presidio Press, not the SF Presidio.