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New Shooter (& ?'s about SASS & $$)


Grizhicks

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Good Morning to All -- New CAS shooter here; shot my first match this past Saturday (July 16th). Shooting Frontiersman and blackpowder is a BLAST !!!

 

BUT, I wondering what I've gotten myself into?? Been follwoing the WIRE for the past couple months, and after all the discussion on EOT and some of the stuff this past weekend, I have my concerns about the organization.

 

My biggest question is: Who owns SASS? In some of the EOT discussions there was a post about SASS being a business, and I understand that. But what type of business? While I realize there is a full-time staff, and paying for Founder's Ranch; BUT, are any profits going into someone's pockets? OR back into the organization. In my opinion, any shooting organization should not have any profits; if all the profits are not going back into the sport, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

 

I'm not porting this as an arguement, but really want to know what is going on? And, if it something I want to continure being part of?

 

Thanks, Grizhicks

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Good Morning to All -- New CAS shooter here; shot my first match this past Saturday (July 16th). Shooting Frontiersman and blackpowder is a BLAST !!!

 

BUT, I wondering what I've gotten myself into?? Been follwoing the WIRE for the past couple months, and after all the discussion on EOT and some of the stuff this past weekend, I have my concerns about the organization.

 

My biggest question is: Who owns SASS? In some of the EOT discussions there was a post about SASS being a business, and I understand that. But what type of business? While I realize there is a full-time staff, and paying for Founder's Ranch; BUT, are any profits going into someone's pockets? OR back into the organization. In my opinion, any shooting organization should not have any profits; if all the profits are not going back into the sport, WHAT ARE THEY DOING?

 

I'm not porting this as an arguement, but really want to know what is going on? And, if it something I want to continure being part of?

 

Thanks, Grizhicks

 

Don't be concerned about stuff ya see on the the Wire - The Wire ain't SASS and SASS ain't the Wire they say.

 

SASS is owned by a group called the Wild Bunch, but to get more honest information about it please call the SASS Headquarters.

 

SASS is a GREAT society of folks and it's at the matches that you will see what it's all about.

 

Good job on your first shoot and it's hoped that you continue in this sport.

 

 

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Nothing wrong with making a profit, but I'm interested in what the percentage is and who is making it. In my opinion, there is a big difference between an organization promoting a sport or activity, that is collecting dues from its members; and a true for-profit business. Just my 2-cents.... Grizhicks

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Just enjoy the shoots.

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I've been involved at some level or another with multiple local clubs, a state championship and even larger matches. Each of these clubs operates just as you say - profits are put back into the club, the shoot, the community. All the board members of these clubs are volunteers, and if we're lucky, we might get dinner out of a year's worth of effort. Beyond that, I really don't worry. I'd rather be concerned about how I'm going to pull another 0.25 out of my shotgun reload rather than whether my SASS dues ended up in someone's pocket.

 

And from your enthusiasm about shooting, this IS something you want to continue being a part of.

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Local clubs are independent and most if not all operate on a close budget, facility rental/lease/whatever, insurance, props. targets, supplies, etc eat up all the income and volunteer labor keep things running.

 

As stated, SASS itself is a business with employees and overhead. Much of the hoohaa about EOT is folks questioning the amount of money generated and how any excess funds are spent. At a club match those funds would go back into the range, at EOT people wonder. Founders ranch is still evolving and developing. It takes time for everything to develop. Don't judge SASS by the scuttlebutt about one match.

 

I guess what it comes down to me is value for the dollar. Does the money I spend on my membership return enough value to me to justify the expenditure. In my mind, yes it does. Do I always agree with everything SASS does? Heck no, but then again I don't always agree with everything I do either.

 

Grizz

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SASS/the Wild Bunch is an umbrella organization that makes rules, and holds EOT etc. They collect dues from "members" (customers) and from affiliated clubs. They print the Cowboy Chronicle and so forth. Currently SASS dues are like $45 a year. Really and truely members are customers, as we have no voting rights beyond the advisory capacity the WB allows through the Territorial Governor system. "Membership" in SASS is like membership in Sams Club, it (in most cases) gets ya discounted shooting fees at local sass-affiliate clubs, and is required to shoot SASS matches (state and above championships) your membership is NOT "collective ownership" like say members of a local fish and game who vote and can vote out the board. The WB OWNS SASS. It is their basketball.

 

Beyond that, your local club collects shooting fees and perhaps annual dues to operate the shoots you go wo monthly, and perhaps an annual or state shoot. That's where yer gonna see a brick and mortar or wood and steel return on YOUR investment. Most shooting clubs are non-profit, and may well deliver a portion of their proceeds to charity as well.

 

The SASS Wire is a place where we hash things out, including lots of dirty laundry. BUT at a shoot, you'd never know the wire existed. 99% of shooters are friendly and will do anything for ya..... WE kinda save the "ugly" for the wire.

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The SASS Wire is a place where we hash things out, including lots of dirty laundry. BUT at a shoot, you'd never know the wire existed. 99% of shooters are friendly and will do anything for ya..... WE kinda save the "ugly" for the wire.

 

And that is the name of that tune... :huh:

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If SASS and the Wild Bunch.. turns a profit.. Hurrah!! Yippee!! :rolleyes:

 

That means WE as members of SASS get to keep the SASS wire, the Chronicle, the rules :wacko: we shoot by for our local, state, regional matches so we all have a kinda fair (level) playing field..

 

If they didn't turn a profit.. I might not have been able to post this answer.. or.. you may not have been able to ask your question''

 

Ranc <_<

 

Thinkin' profit is not a nasty word :blush:

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The SASS Wire is a place where we hash things out, including lots of dirty laundry. BUT at a shoot, you'd never know the wire existed. 99% of shooters are friendly and will do anything for ya..... WE kinda save the "ugly" for the wire.

 

 

Yup - on the Wire some thin-skinned folks may get offended, or feel one was 'rude' and may personally take offense and whine about whatever...but overall I chalk up the 'ugly' as 'entertainment'...well, I try at least :lol: .

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Sounds like I've been mis-understood; I'm referring to profit, after all those things are considered. Maybe wrongly, but I've gotten the impression that there is a considerable profit being made by SASS. IF, there are any profits left after all the expenses and they are being used as someone's retirement account, then I have a problem; but, if there is anything left and it is being put back into the organization, I'm good with it.

 

just trying to " get a handle" on what is going on... Grizhicks

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The profits are going to pay the staff, pay the mortgage on Founder's Ranch, pay for EOT, pay for publishing the Chronicle.

 

To be honest, don't worry about it. If it is that big a concern, start running your own club and you will find out where the money goes real fast.

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Sounds like I've been mis-understood; I'm referring to profit, after all those things are considered. Maybe wrongly, but I've gotten the impression that there is a considerable profit being made by SASS. IF, there are any profits left after all the expenses and they are being used as someone's retirement account, then I have a problem; but, if there is anything left and it is being put back into the organization, I'm good with it.

 

just trying to " get a handle" on what is going on... Grizhicks

 

So the founders/owners of SASS can take a salary but they can't have a 401k? I don't think anyone is getting rich off our members dues. But it is a business with employees who earn their living working for SASS. I wouldn't let any of that get in the way of me having a good time.

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I'm thinking that ifn you have a problem with the owners of SASS/CAS making a profit, then you must have a problem with Pepsi, Coke, Budweiser, Proctor & Gamble, guns made in China and ammo made in Russia.

 

Pepsi is not a sports company but they sponsor NASCAR races, advertise on TV for sporting events, etc..

 

Coke does not make cars but they also get into sponsorship of racing.

 

Proctor & Gamble could probably care less about football but they initiate their fair share of advertising on TV which allows us to view our favorite games.

 

And even some of our guns/ammo have helped SOMEBODY earn a profit in China and Russia. :o

 

And get this.....everyone of them have made a profit and somebody put some of that money in their pocket. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME!

 

I'm curious: are you trying to say that the folks who bought the property to Founders Ranch, Built on it, invested in Copyrights, and have spent the last 30 years traveling from coast to coast to help grow this sport/game, do not have a right to earn a profit for their endeavors?

 

Quite frankly, the owners of SASS/CAS don't owe us any explaination as to how much (or how little) they make on their investment. It not our business. We didn't buy into having stock in a corporation. They don't have to produce a quarterly earnings report.

 

About the only earthly thing they have to answer to is the IRS.

 

So whether the Wild Bunch makes mucho bucks or not, it ain't our business. And it ain't our business ifn they spend it on liquor, cold Pepsi, cigars, wild women, or vacations to a nude beach in France. Heck, some of them may even contribute $$$ to the Nancy Pelosi reelection fund.

 

 

..........Widder

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The profits are going to pay the staff, pay the mortgage on Founder's Ranch, pay for EOT, pay for publishing the Chronicle.

 

To be honest, don't worry about it. If it is that big a concern, start running your own club and you will find out where the money goes real fast.

 

You'll find out where a lot of your own money goes real fast. :blush: I don't begrudge the Wild Bunch a single dime. They don't owe us anything other than what we already have.

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IF, there are any profits left after all the expenses and they are being used as someone's retirement account, then I have a problem;

 

 

Then it looks like you have a problem. The Wild Bunch invented this game. They're the ones who took the risk and created the business. They own it. If it had failed, they'd be the ones who would have lost their money. Thankfully it flourished and has become a world wide phenomenon. It's exactly the same as someone else pointed out, Sam Walton "invented" Sam's Club. Sam Walton kept his profits, The Wild Bunch keeps theirs.

 

You can focus on this one tiny aspect and let it bother you if you want but, I think you'd be missing out on a great sport and the great people who participate in it.

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You'll find out where a lot of your own money goes real fast. :blush: I don't begrudge the Wild Bunch a single dime. They don't owe us anything other than what we already have.

 

 

If anything we owe the WB a debt of gratitude for making this great game possible ;)

 

GG ~ :FlagAm:

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Heck, some of them may even contribute $$$ to the Nancy Pelosi reelection fund.

 

 

..........Widder

 

I will withdraw my membership immediately!!!

 

 

 

Naw, ain't no cowboy that dumb.

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Heck, some of them may even contribute $$$ to the Nancy Pelosi reelection fund.

 

 

..........Widder

 

 

I'm trying to think of a funny comeback but DANG Widder, that cuts right to the bone. :o

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If what they make or spend the money from your dues on bothers you need to not pay your dues next year. If you dont feel like you get you moneys worth, dont pay next year.It is worth the dues just for the CC and the wire that I am on now.

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Bottom line - SASS gets what, $45 bucks a year from me directly? I spend more than that a year on toilet paper, and I know how that gets used and where it goes.

 

If I was dropping several thousand dollars a year or more on an ongoing basis directly with SASS, sure I might be a bit more inclined to care and find out how the money is spent, but I don't, none of use do.

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The Wild Bunch is not making a killing off of SASS. The only one with any kind of walkin' around money is SASS #2 U.S. Grant. He made his off of his business EMF not SASS. Our founder and ambassador SASS #1 is not rich by my measure of rich in monetary terms. But he is very rich in all of us his loyal followers who love cherish and adore him. He earns every penny traveling around the world being our good will ambassador and spreading the word.

 

No, I assure you no one is getting rich off of SASS. Most of the profits are plowed back into the good and welfare of the organization. Founder's Ranch is a money pit and I guarantee you if SASS had any real trough of extra money there would be water piped into that place already.

 

SASS has probably already started to LOSE money on my paltry $400 life membership I ante-ed up way back when. Best bargain I ever got. Second best was conventioneer passes at the first two EOTs at FR.

 

If ye are worried that the WB is lining their pockets from SASS ye are barkin' up the wrong tree. We all ride for the brand here from the WB on down to us shooters and waddies. We all have the good and welfare of CAS at heart and nobody ever made any kind of real money puttin' on cowboy matches. Most clubs do good to break even and if SASS HQ has a black bottom line instead of red it ain't no huge amount and I for one and most of us don't begrudge 'em not one thin dime.

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Good answers and better understanding; seems like I may have gotten a wrong opinion from some of the discussions going on about EOT. No problems from here, and I will do my part, when I can, to help make it a better organization. THANKS to All .... Grizhicks

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Good answers and better understanding; seems like I may have gotten a wrong opinion from some of the discussions going on about EOT. No problems from here, and I will do my part, when I can, to help make it a better organization. THANKS to All .... Grizhicks

 

+1 for a smart decision. You will find traveling around the country shooting, there is not a BETTER or friendlier bunch of folks than all these great Cowboys and Cowgirls. What has been expressed here today, is just a small example of what you'll get, as far as loyalty to an organization. IMHO!!

 

Capt Stephen D. Hill (hooked for life)

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Good answers and better understanding; seems like I may have gotten a wrong opinion from some of the discussions going on about EOT. No problems from here, and I will do my part, when I can, to help make it a better organization. THANKS to All .... Grizhicks

 

 

 

It can't be said enough times

 

"The Wire ain't SASS" :excl:

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AS far as the profits go, think of it like bowling or softball or many other sports, ya usually have to join a league and/or pay dues & then it's so much a game to participate. The owners of the alley or baseball field gotta make a living too.

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Wihtout SASS we all wouldn't be doin this. I hope they make as much money as they can. All I know is I pay my dues and get a great newpaper every month and I can go to all the big matches around the country if'n I want to. SASS is a great organization and they're PRO GUN.!!!B)

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Let's see what I get for my paltry annual membership fee.....

 

1. The monthly Cowboy Chronicle magazine/newspaper covering worldwide events, rules, information, articles, reviews and other info including products and advertisers dedicated to supporting our hobby. :)

 

2. The SASS "Wahr" that we are all on. I and others can ask questions and get great (and some not-so), timely information that shortens the learning curve and keeps us abreast of daily issues, not to mention a source to buy/sell items from trustworthy sources. And that doesn't even include the "entertainment value" of some of the great stuff in the Saloon, or the sometimes cantankerous banter here. :o

 

3. ONE set of INTERNATIONAL rules so that I can go anywhere in the US or many foreign countries and compete on an even basis at great "events". (do NOT underestimate this one!) :excl:

 

4. The opportunity to meet, compete, share great times, and make long term friendships with some of the best, like-minded folks I've ever met (see #3 above) - priceless!!! :D

 

Thanks to the Wild Bunch for taking the risk to stand up this organization!!! They deserve anything they're makin' - it's the american capitalism way that made us great - and I know it ain't much in this case.

 

Harvey :FlagAm:

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Lets see. Dozens of State matches, Hundreds of affiliated clubs, Monthly News letter, SASS Wire, End of Trail, Tens of thousands of members, etc. Running the SASS organization is a full time job for several people. I sure hope their making a profit. Otherwise, they might not be around very long.

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Grizhicks, My old pappy use to say, Son they have people that would b---- if you hung them with new rope!! Grizz, I suggest that you lay low and see who makes the trouble and who tries to help others. We have plenty of both. Some of these people don't even shoot matches but then proceed to tell you what is wrong with SASS and it's make up. Just have fun and help others do the same and you will have much more returned to you than what you pay out.

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I think as long as SASS continues to accept new memberships, it owes the membership. They owe us continued efforts to keep the oranization growing. They owe us a continued effort to make the game more enjoyable...make the game a draw for younger folks...etc.

 

And, the Wire is SASS. You don't hear the types of arguements that you hear on the Wire when you're on the range because the Range ain't the place for it...duh.

 

Cheers!

Phantom

:FlagAm:

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