Military etiquette

[Old Scatterbrain]

I was taught, in navy basic training circa 1989, that personnel in civilian clothes should face the flag (or music) at attention. This is what I did and observed others doing for 12 years.

 

Recently I was at a mobilization ceremony and received much flak from my fellow soldiers for not placing my hand over my heart. Since then I have conversed with several navy vets, and every single one of them has said protocol is hand over the heart, and I must be making this up, or I am some sort of godless pinko who hates America.

 

Is there any other vet out there who recalls being instructed to stand at attention in civilian clothes?

[The Shoer 27979]

you know it has been 27 years since I was in the Army so I just do not remember

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

I was taught, in navy basic training circa 1989, that personnel in civilian clothes should face the flag (or music) at attention. This is what I did and observed others doing for 12 years.

 

Recently I was at a mobilization ceremony and received much flak from my fellow soldiers for not placing my hand over my heart. Since then I have conversed with several navy vets, and every single one of them has said protocol is hand over the heart, and I must be making this up, or I am some sort of godless pinko who hates America.

 

Is there any other vet out there who recalls being instructed to stand at attention in civilian clothes?

 

 

 

National Anthem, hand over heart.

 

THE UNITED STATES CODE title 36 subtitle I part A chapter 3 (subsection ?) 301.

 

The composition consisting of the words and music known as the Star-Spangled Banner is the national anthem.

 

Conduct During Playing.- During a rendition of the national anthem-

(1) when the flag is displayed-

(A) all present except those in uniform should stand at attention facing the flag with the right hand over the heart;

 

men not in uniform should remove their headdress with their right hand and hold the headdress at the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart; and individuals in uniform should give the military salute at the first note of the anthem and maintain that position until the last note; and 2) when the flag is not displayed, all present should face toward the music and act in the same manner they would if the flag were displayed.

 

 

 

 

[Bama Red]

This federal law was just passed in 2008. It allows any veteran to render the military hand salute during the playing of the National Anthem, and most any other event involving the flag:

 

Vets Can Salute Flag

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

This federal law was just passed in 2008. It allows any veteran to render the military hand salute during the playing of the National Anthem, and most any other event involving the flag:

 

Vets Can Salute Flag

 

 

 

I notice a number of SASS pards at shoots also will do the hand salute during the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

...and thank you for your service Old Scatterbrain

 

GG ~

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

The code specifies a hand salute during national anthem and flag passing in a parade but not during Pledge of Allegiance.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

The code specifies a hand salute during national anthem and flag passing in a parade but not during Pledge of Allegiance.

 

 

 

Thats what I understand under:

 

Soldiers may recite the Pledge of Allegiance as noted below in accordance with Section 4, Title 4, United States Code (4 USC 4):

 

1. During military ceremonies, soldiers will not recite the Pledge of Allegiance.
2. At official functions, social events, and sporting events, soldiers should:
   1. When in uniform, outdoors, stand at attention, remain silent, face the flag, and render the hand salute.
   2. When in uniform, indoors, stand at attention, remain silent, and face the flag.
   3. When in civilian attire, stand at attention, face the flag with the right hand over the heart and recite the Pledge of Allegiance. Headgear should be removed with the right hand and held over the left shoulder, the hand being over the heart.

But since I did not serve and honor those that did....any service memeber can do as he feels cause I ain't gonna verse them either way

 

 

GG ~

 

 

[Bama Red]

If I'm not mistaken, a provision regarding the Pledge was added either in 2010 or this year. Possibly not to the Flag Code - might have been a separate piece of legislation. Quick search didn't find proof, but I'm sure I remember seeing something about it.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

If I'm not mistaken, a provision regarding the Pledge was added either in 2010 or this year. Possibly not to the Flag Code - might have been a separate piece of legislation. Quick search didn't find proof, but I'm sure I remember seeing something about it.

 

 

I would think so too cause there are a number of service folks out here that are practicing the hand -salute...CAS and general public.

 

 

GG ~

[Jittery Jim Jonah, SASS #64913L]

Here ya go gentlemen.....

 

Hand Salute

 

JJJ-D

:ph34r:

[Harvey Mushman]

This federal law was just passed in 2008. It allows any veteran to render the military hand salute during the playing of the National Anthem, and most any other event involving the flag:

 

Vets Can Salute Flag

 

 

As I understand it, this is correct except for Navy and Marine Corps Vets in civvies. Even though the federal law changed, both the CNO and the CMC subsequently published orders that require their vets in civvies to do as previously required - hand over heart at attention (uncovered) - salute not authorized except in uniform, and covered.

 

Apparently the wording made it optional among the services, and the CNO and CMC both exercised their option consistently within the Department of the Navy!

 

Personally, I'm fine with their decision - I'm just not comfortable saluting unless in full uniform! Then again, I was 34 years Navy, and regs also required that we did NOT salute when uncovered nor indoors (unless under arms such as while on watch) - much different than the Army (and AF, to my knowledge)? Led to more than one discussion with some senior Army types indoors when I did not salute while uncovered (used respectful verbal greeting instead).

 

The Navy has always been just a little independent (alone at sea out of comms makes you that way), and as the oldest and ONLY constitutionally authorized standing service, deserves to be!

 

Cheers,

Harvey

[Utah Bob #35998]

Lots of confusion resulting from that change. Maybe they should have left well enough alone.

[DocWard]

Lots of confusion resulting from that change. Maybe they should have left well enough alone.

 

Sometimes I think that, but I have found myself at a couple of high school football games, and it felt good... even "right" to be able to snap a salute. Part of that feeling comes from the feeling of rendering the salute, but also there is knowing I am part of a small percentage of the populace with the ability to do so. Even smaller given the Marine and Navy directives.

[Alpo]

Old Scatterbrain, it appears they all went off on tangents about "saluting". But you are correct. You stand at attention for the Anthem, and salute the Flag. If the Flag is not present, you do not salute.

 

As to whether you use the civilian salute - hand over heart, or the military salute - I'll leave that up to you. But if the Flag is not present you stand at attention. You do not salute.

[Ugly, SASS #18106]

Okay, at a match, with cowboy hat on, hand salute or, remove said hat and hold over left shoulder?

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Okay, at a match, with cowboy hat on, hand salute or, remove said hat and hold over left shoulder?

 

For the Pledge of Allegiance, remove hat, hand over heart. If your hat is over your left shoulder, so be it.

[Aunt Jen]

As I understand it, this is correct except for Navy and Marine Corps Vets in civvies. Even though the federal law changed, both the CNO and the CMC subsequently published orders that require their vets in civvies to do as previously required - hand over heart at attention (uncovered) - salute not authorized except in uniform, and covered.

 

Apparently the wording made it optional among the services, and the CNO and CMC both exercised their option consistently within the Department of the Navy!

 

Personally, I'm fine with their decision - I'm just not comfortable saluting unless in full uniform! Then again, I was 34 years Navy, and regs also required that we did NOT salute when uncovered nor indoors (unless under arms such as while on watch) - much different than the Army (and AF, to my knowledge)? Led to more than one discussion with some senior Army types indoors when I did not salute while uncovered (used respectful verbal greeting instead).

 

The Navy has always been just a little independent (alone at sea out of comms makes you that way), and as the oldest and ONLY constitutionally authorized standing service, deserves to be!

 

Cheers,

Harvey

I know for me: When I'm at the Rose Bowl or something, during the National Anthem, I have saluted while it's played. But people look at me funny.

 

(I was in the Navy, and most of my family was in one branch or another.)

 

I've explained that the law was changed to permit it, but the impression I've gotten is that they still feel it's out of place with someone in civilian clothes.

 

I've done it, anyway.

 

Last year, there were two rows of brass, a few rows behind me, including some admirals and generals, and also enlisted folks. I went back there with the drinks guy and bought any of them a bottle of water who wanted one. About half took me up on it. It was just a nice gesture; I wasn't asking for anything. Just a "Thanks," to them. Then I went back to my seat. Then a lieutenant came up to me and told me the Admiral and a General would like me to have their medalions, mementos given out to mark an occasion, I guess.

 

I accepted them, and I have them on the table by the front door.

 

It was my favorite Rose Bowl.

 

AJ

[Utah Bob #35998]

I know for me: When I'm at the Rose Bowl or something, during the National Anthem, I have saluted while it's played. But people look at me funny.

 

(I was in the Navy, and most of my family was in one branch or another.)

 

I've explained that the law was changed to permit it, but the impression I've gotten is that they still feel it's out of place with someone in civilian clothes.

 

I've done it, anyway.

 

Last year, there were two rows of brass, a few rows behind me, including some admirals and generals, and also enlisted folks. I went back there with the drinks guy and bought any of them a bottle of water who wanted one. About half took me up on it. It was just a nice gesture; I wasn't asking for anything. Just a "Thanks," to them. Then I went back to my seat. Then a lieutenant came up to me and told me the Admiral and a General would like me to have their medalions, mementos given out to mark an occasion, I guess.

 

I accepted them, and I have them on the table by the front door.

 

It was my favorite Rose Bowl.

 

AJ

 

People look at you funny probably just because they're not used to seeing a lady salute.

 

BTW we are still waiting for your info, hmmmm?

[Pineywoods Jim,SASS#56822]

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, Signed by President Bush,inadvertantly left out the salute provisions for veterans during the Pledge of Allegiance, covering only raising or lowering the flag, it's passing, and the National Anthem. This was corrected in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, Sec 3001, sponsored by Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) and passed by congress...."veterans are now permitted to render a hand salute when the U.S. Flag is raised and lowered, passes in review, during the Pledge of Allegience, and during the playing of the National Anthem."

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

The National Defense Authorization Act of 2008, Signed by President Bush,inadvertantly left out the salute provisions for veterans during the Pledge of Allegiance, covering only raising or lowering the flag, it's passing, and the National Anthem. This was corrected in the National Defense Authorization Act for Fiscal Year 2009, Sec 3001, sponsored by Senator James Inhofe (R-Oklahoma) and passed by congress...."veterans are now permitted to render a hand salute when the U.S. Flag is raised and lowered, passes in review, during the Pledge of Allegience, and during the playing of the National Anthem."

 

I could not find that, however, I did find, under the112th Congress:

 

H.R.648 - To amend title 4, United States Code, to authorize members of the Armed Forces not in uniform and veterans to render a military salute during the recitation of the Pledge of Allegiance.

 

Which has not yet passed.

[Old Scatterbrain]

People look at you funny probably just because they're not used to seeing a lady salute.

 

BTW we are still waiting for your info, hmmmm?

She's not a lady, she worked for a living!

 

 

Wait... no- that's not... uh, nevermind...

[Utah Bob #35998]

She's not a lady, she worked for a living!

 

 

Wait... no- that's not... uh, nevermind...

 

I will back away and let you stew in yore own juices.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Now here's a tanget to go off on.

Remember back when they played Take Me Out to the Ball Game in the 7th inning?

I'm a traditionalist. I liked that.

Well now they almost always play God Bless America instead. I guess the national Anthem at the beginning of the game isn't enough. We have to re-enforce our patriotism in the 7th inning.

 

But here's the deal. If you look around you'll see everybody standing with their hands on their hearts. Confusing isn't it?

[Old Scatterbrain]

Now here's a tanget to go off on.

Remember back when they played Take Me Out to the Ball Game in the 7th inning?

I'm a traditionalist. I liked that.

Well now they almost always play God Bless America instead. I guess the national Anthem at the beginning of the game isn't enough. We have to re-enforce our patriotism in the 7th inning.

 

But here's the deal. If you look around you'll see everybody standing with their hands on their hearts. Confusing isn't it?

 

More so than during the anthem, oftentimes.

[Guest EL NEGRO GATO #8178]

My club say's the Pledge of Alligence at the beginning of each shoot, most of the vets stand at attention and salute OUR flag, I think if anyone has a problem with this practice I'm sure the paramedics can patch them up. Enough said.

ENG

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

My club say's the Pledge of Alligence at the beginning of each shoot, most of the vets stand at attention and salute OUR flag, I think if anyone has a problem with this practice I'm sure the paramedics can patch them up. Enough said.

ENG

 

No argument here pard!

 

 

 

GG ~

[Utah Bob #35998]

My club say's the Pledge of Alligence at the beginning of each shoot, most of the vets stand at attention and salute OUR flag, I think if anyone has a problem with this practice I'm sure the paramedics can patch them up. Enough said.

ENG

 

 

Never heard of anybody having a problem with it.