GPG Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 After being very patient with my Henry big boy in 44mag and sending it in to the factory for repair because it would not feed I have decided to bring it to the next local match. I step up to the rifle portion of the stage and pulled the trigger and nothing! Live rounds were flying out as I tried to cycle another. It appears that the firing pin was left in New Jersey where the repair was made. Once again I contacted Henry and asked them to send out a firing pin and they said they would send a new bolt which I am waiting for now and have since got on line to buy a 1873 in 45 colt. The question that I have is short stroke kit or super short as I see Pioneer has both options. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kiowa Kid, SASS #69870L Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 After being very patient with my Henry big boy in 44mag and sending it in to the factory for repair because it would not feed I have decided to bring it to the next local match. I step up to the rifle portion of the stage and pulled the trigger and nothing! Live rounds were flying out as I tried to cycle another. It appears that the firing pin was left in New Jersey where the repair was made. Once again I contacted Henry and asked them to send out a firing pin and they said they would send a new bolt which I am waiting for now and have since got on line to buy a 1873 in 45 colt. The question that I have is short stroke kit or super short as I see Pioneer has both options. thanks Just short I think you will be very happy. KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 It is WAY more about the gunsmithing than it is about WHICH short stroke kit. Personally, of those available today, I'd prefer the Super Short kit from Pioneer or the 5th generation kit from Cowboys and Indians. The 4th generation from Cowboys and Indians (which is no longer made) is my overall favorite. Now, with all that said, I'd guess that better than 95% of shooters can shoot a 3rd generation short stroke (or a customized short stroke like Cody Conagher's) as fast as they can shoot any of the later short strokes. The best advice I can give you is to handle them for yourself rather than taking someon's opinion of what is best. We wouldn't buy a car based upon someone's opinion what of is best, we'd want to drive it. So, why would we be different about our guns? I'm a Chevy man...but dang if I haven't seen some fast Fords and even Mopars if you can believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Slim Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I started out a couple of years ago shooting a Henry Big Boy, (45colt). Now I ain't good and I ain't fast but I started outrunning my Henry. It got to the point it would jam on every stage. I finally broke down and bought a '66 from Cody Conhager. Man is it smooth, slick, purty, faster than me, etc. I highly recommend his work and his prices. If you talk to him tell him Chickamauga still can't get the grin offen his face! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I don't know from personal experience, but from what I've read from others, the 5th generation works better on 38 caliber. Many of the folks say they like the 4th generation for larger calibers. But your mileage may vary, so if possible try some out at your local match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Is there even a short stroke kit for a Henry Big Boy? All the kits I know are for the Winchester style Henry, or the '66 or '73 clones. The Big Boy is a different animal. Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 I would call and talk to Joe (Pioneer), Don (CodyMatic), or C&I and I can't think of the other 73 smiths right now, and see what they recommend. More often than not they will sell you a race ready rifle for just a few dollars more than you can buy one and all the trick stuff that goes into them........Just my personal experience................Mink............ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 It is a personal choice, not one is better than the other. The shortest takes more lever force to cycle the action. Some like it others don't. I like the longer short stroke as I can run it easy with one or two fingers, but the shortest always takes me 2 or even 3 fingers to reliably cycle without screwing up. I am sure with practice you can shoot both darn fast. If possible try each in the same caliber and see which you like best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted July 4, 2011 Share Posted July 4, 2011 Going from a Henry Big Boy to a tuned and short stroked 73 is like going from a scooter to a Corvette. You'll enjoy it. FWIW, another gunsmith that sells tuned and ready to run guns is Long Hunter. Long Hunter's guns...I like them. Jimmy Spurs' guns...I like them. Jim Bowie's guns (Cowboys and Indians)...I like them. Will Shootem's guns (Pioneer Gun Works)...I like them. Lassiter's guns...I like them. Squibber's guns...I like them. Cody Conagher's guns...I like them. (I've shot one of his rifles for a few years now) Bill English's guns...I like them. Manatee's guns...I like them. Huckleberry's guns...I like them. He is building my new rifle. He's one of many who I call "excellent but not famous gunsmiths." If you were to poll the world champions over the past few years, you would find their rifles have been tuned by a mixture of "famous" gunsmiths and a bunch of gunsmiths most of us have never heard of. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It is WAY more about the gunsmithing than it is about WHICH short stroke kit. Personally, of those available today, I'd prefer the Super Short kit from Pioneer or the 5th generation kit from Cowboys and Indians. The 4th generation from Cowboys and Indians (which is no longer made) is my overall favorite. Now, with all that said, I'd guess that better than 95% of shooters can shoot a 3rd generation short stroke (or a customized short stroke like Cody Conagher's) as fast as they can shoot any of the later short strokes. The best advice I can give you is to handle them for yourself rather than taking someon's opinion of what is best. We wouldn't buy a car based upon someone's opinion what of is best, we'd want to drive it. So, why would we be different about our guns? I'm a Chevy man...but dang if I haven't seen some fast Fords and even Mopars if you can believe it. GPG - I think you have a good start on replies offering you good advice. I can vouch for what Buck told you and can further confirm for you he had done a fair bit of homework on this subject. I met up with him at the Georgia State match and he looked over my 73 which had a new C&I kit in it recently installed at Winter Range. He also looked at my pard's 73 which had a new custom short stroke job done by Colt McCallister. He had been looking at others as well and as he said all are good when done by good gunsmiths.. Like Buck told you I would highly recommend you try some pards 73's and see what "feels good" for you then go from there. Good Luck Colt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 It is a personal choice, not one is better than the other. The shortest takes more lever force to cycle the action. Some like it others don't. I like the longer short stroke as I can run it easy with one or two fingers, but the shortest always takes me 2 or even 3 fingers to reliably cycle without screwing up. I am sure with practice you can shoot both darn fast. If possible try each in the same caliber and see which you like best. +1 I have shot em both on and off and the time isn't a factor IMO…. It’s too close to call. What’s more important is the style in which you shoot the rifle that "may" point you in the right direction. If you plant yer' thumb the harder stroke of the SS doesn't work as well for me because of the extra force to lever it. If you let yer hand ride free of the frame then it’s easier to overcome the extra force need at the begging of the stroke. Just something to think about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Is there even a short stroke kit for a Henry Big Boy? All the kits I know are for the Winchester style Henry, or the '66 or '73 clones. The Big Boy is a different animal. Howdy No, there is not. All the short stroke kits on the market are for toggle link rifles; '66, '73, and Uberti Henry. The links used for the various short stroke kits employ a slightly different geometry to take up some of the slack in the action to get the bolt moving before a stock bolt, and to shorten the stroke itself. The Henry Big Boy has a very different action, it does not have toggle links. It is similar to the action of a Marlin, where the front of the lever itself pushes the bolt back. I only know of one smith who shortens the stroke on a Marlin, I'm not exactly sure how he does it, but I'll bet some bending and/or grinding may be involved. There is not enough demand for anybody to have started doing this with the Henry Big Boy. The one thing to be aware of with all short stroke kits is you are working with a lever. Shorten the stroke, and you will increase the amount of effort needed to do the same amount of work. In other words, if your stroke is shorter, it WILL become harder to work the action. The shorter the stroke, the more effort is required to work the action, particularly to compress the main spring. That's why all short stroke jobs should be accompanied by a good action job to reduce the internal friction inside the gun as much as possible. Once the friction has been reduced, one can also lighten the springs a bit, because they have less friction to overcome in order to do their job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marshal Harland Wolff, SASS #5019 Posted July 5, 2011 Share Posted July 5, 2011 Cowboy & Indian Store 5th Gen kits work great in both .45 & .38. That's all I use in my guns and mine are .45s...it's all in HOW the springs are set up and WHO sets them up! I would use no other kits! HW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPG Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Is there even a short stroke kit for a Henry Big Boy? All the kits I know are for the Winchester style Henry, or the '66 or '73 clones. The Big Boy is a different animal. Buena suerte, eGG I haven't found anything for the Henry but am looking for my 1873 which I just purchased. thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPG Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 I haven't found anything for the Henry Big Boy but am looking for my new 1873. thanks Colt McCloud- I have handled a couple of 73's while getting to know the spirit of the game. I have shot a standard and a home installed short stroke kit where he had shortened the stock srpings and this was awesome. I will start with a standard setup and then see what I want from there. thanks for the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GPG Posted July 5, 2011 Author Share Posted July 5, 2011 Thanks to Buck and Colt for the helpful information. I just joined sass a short time ago and it is very comforting to have all of the great folks on this site help a fellow out that is just starting out. The local gun shops in Fargo ND should visit a match I think it would help them know what the folks are needing for firearms if looking at this type of shooting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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