Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 The SASS Shooter's Handbook has the following on page 22. "2. Muzzle direction is important between, before, during, and after shooting a stage. A muzzle must not be allowed to “sweep” the other participants at any time. Long guns shall have their actions open with chambers and magazines empty and muzzles pointed in a safe direction when transported at a match. A holstered revolver (loaded or empty) with the hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended case is considered safe and may not be interpreted as sweeping another shooter while safely secured in the holster.' I'm curious as to what actually constitutes "sweeping". I checked out the glossary in the RO1 handbook but there is no definition of what a "sweep" is. Also, what constitutes "transporting" a firearm. Is it having the muzzle pointed at someone while being in the hands of a person or is it having the muzzle pointed at another person at any time at all. For example, are long guns with their actions open horizontal in a wagon considered to be sweeping people when they walk by the wagon? Are revolvers empty with the hammer down on an empty chamber sweeping someone if they are lying in a gun cart? It was always my understanding that it was only considered "sweeping" if the firearm was being handled by someone when the muzzle was pointed at a person. It was not sweeping if the firearm was in a safe condition and pointed at someone while stored in some way. Sage Creek Gus Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 ... It was always my understanding that it was only considered "sweeping" if the firearm was being handled by someone when the muzzle was pointed at a person. It was not sweeping if the firearm was in a safe condition and pointed at someone while stored in some way. Sage Creek Gus Hi Gus, That is my understanding too. Regards, Allie "who is wondering why you asked" Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 Allie "who is wondering why you asked" Mo One club I shoot at requires that you place your handguns in your cart if you are picking up brass. They are concerned that when you bend over to pick up brass your holstered handguns might sweep someone. I don't really mind this if I'm going to pick brass as it's not that big of a deal to walk over to my cart and put my handguns in it. But I'm concerned I might just be standing watching the match with my holstered handguns and without thinking bend over to pick up an empty case, or something else, and be called for sweeping someone. SCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oliver Loving Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 I believe that is close. THe implication for sweeping is did the weapon get pointed at the person thourgh your impetus while holding, carring, or placing the weapon into any position. Once you safely stored or staged and someone walks in front of the weapon then they virtually sweep themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 One club I shoot at requires that you place your handguns in your cart if you are picking up brass. They are concerned that when you bend over to pick up brass your holstered handguns might sweep someone. I don't really mind this if I'm going to pick brass as it's not that big of a deal to walk over to my cart and put my handguns in it. But I'm concerned I might just be standing watching the match with my holstered handguns and without thinking bend over to pick up an empty case, or something else, and be called for sweeping someone. SCG I would imagine a lot of brass gets left on the ground at that club. I haven't seen many unloaded guns go off in holsters for whatever it is worth. Under SASS rules you are not sweeping anyone with your pistols in their holsters, when bending over for example. I would hope the club with the odd rule publishes it so everyone can decide if they really want to shoot there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 I would imagine a lot of brass gets left on the ground at that club. I haven't seen many unloaded guns go off in holsters for whatever it is worth. Under SASS rules you are not sweeping anyone with your pistols in their holsters, when bending over for example. I would hope the club with the odd rule publishes it so everyone can decide if they really want to shoot there. Maybe I'm missing it somewhere but I can't find in any of the handbooks where the term "sweep" or "sweeping" is defined. SCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
August West, SASS #45079 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 RO I Handbook, Appendix A, Range Safety Rules, Section 2. A holstered revolver (loaded or empty) with the hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended case is considered safe and may not be interpreted as sweeping another shooter while safely secured in the holster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 RO I Handbook, Appendix A, Range Safety Rules, Section 2. A holstered revolver (loaded or empty) with the hammer fully down on an empty chamber or expended case is considered safe and may not be interpreted as sweeping another shooter while safely secured in the holster. Yeah, seems pretty clear to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Henry T Harrison Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 This is a post I made on another thread It kind of amazes me how paranoid we can get about how we carry empty guns with open actions in a gun cart, and I say this because five minutes after the match the guns are put in the car or truck actions closed. Then here is where it gets wierd, we all repair to the local restaurant sit around a table or in a booth with a pocket pistol in a front pocket sweeping everyone in the place with a LOADED gun and the scary part is a lot of those pocket pistols are striker fired. Anyone else see a little incongruity here? I am in favor of strict safety policies but sometimes enough is enough and common sense needs to prevail Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sage Creek Gus SASS #64320 Posted June 28, 2011 Author Share Posted June 28, 2011 This is a post I made on another thread It kind of amazes me how paranoid we can get about how we carry empty guns with open actions in a gun cart, and I say this because five minutes after the match the guns are put in the car or truck actions closed. Then here is where it gets wierd, we all repair to the local restaurant sit around a table or in a booth with a pocket pistol in a front pocket sweeping everyone in the place with a LOADED gun and the scary part is a lot of those pocket pistols are striker fired. Anyone else see a little incongruity here? I am in favor of strict safety policies but sometimes enough is enough and common sense needs to prevail I agree. Some people are paranoid about empty holstered handguns which have been checked at the unloading table as being safe or a long gun with it's action open in a wagon but give no concern to firearms which may be stored in vehicles parked right beside the range which may contain loaded firearms stored horizontally which are pointing at people as they walk by. SCG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holden A. Grudge Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 This reminds me of my first trip to the sand box. There was a fellow officer who expressed concern during a staff meeting, that he felt it was unsafe to allow the SEALS (or anyone else for that matter but the SEALS were the most prodiminent at this) to wear their horizontal hang shoulder holsters in the chow hall because they were sweeping the guys sitting behind them. (all weapons had to be cleared before entering the chow hall to begin with) The whole thing just struck me with kind of a dumbfounded feeling. My thought is that a gun cannot sweep anyone. A person holding a gun can sweep others but the gun itself isn't sweeping diddly. Kinda like a hammer can only drive a nail if someone swings it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Shoer 27979 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 This is a post I made on another thread It kind of amazes me how paranoid we can get about how we carry empty guns with open actions in a gun cart, and I say this because five minutes after the match the guns are put in the car or truck actions closed. Then here is where it gets wierd, we all repair to the local restaurant sit around a table or in a booth with a pocket pistol in a front pocket sweeping everyone in the place with a LOADED gun and the scary part is a lot of those pocket pistols are striker fired. Anyone else see a little incongruity here? I am in favor of strict safety policies but sometimes enough is enough and common sense needs to prevail What is this common sense you talk of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Three Fingered Fred 59408 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 ** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Beady Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 This is a post I made on another thread It kind of amazes me how paranoid we can get about how we carry empty guns with open actions in a gun cart, and I say this because five minutes after the match the guns are put in the car or truck actions closed. Then here is where it gets wierd, we all repair to the local restaurant sit around a table or in a booth with a pocket pistol in a front pocket sweeping everyone in the place with a LOADED gun and the scary part is a lot of those pocket pistols are striker fired. Anyone else see a little incongruity here? I am in favor of strict safety policies but sometimes enough is enough and common sense needs to prevail True enough, but it's also true that there are some situations you can't control so there's no point in wasting the effort. A club can control what happens on/near the firing line, but it can't control what happens in a person's car or in a restaurant. About the most we can reasonably hope for is that the safety rules become so familiar that they carry over when the match is done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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