PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Thanks PWB. Always good to get the other side of the story. ...as opposed to the many variations posted here by persons getting their info "first hand" directly from the shooter. As I stated, there were a number of MISunderstandings (on both sides) at the time. If anyone has a problem with the way this issue was addressed ON THE LINE & in the heat of the day, feel free to PM/email me directly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Just don't reload from the illegal location unless you want to get a procedural plus misses This was the quote I was referring to, reloading from an illegal location is a SDQ, not a procedural. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The SDQ for the use or presence of illegal/outlawed items overrides the "use of illegally acquired ammo" rule (which was originally written to cover handing a shooter SG ammo, but now also applies to the rescinding of the "overload" MSV). Chronologically speaking, the act of carrying the ammo to the line in an illegal manner occurs before it is actually used. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 29, 2011 Author Share Posted June 29, 2011 Palewolf. Just so I clear on your call. And correct me if I wrong..... The presence of the ammo loops make this setup a Bandoleer....... Therefor it cannot be used "tied down" regardless of the presence of ammo or its location on the belt or holster. (What I don't understand is - How does the removal of ammo remove the definition of Bandoleer?) The removal of the loops would allow the "tying down" of the Holster as then it would no longer be a Bandoleer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 Palewolf. Just so I clear on your call. And correct me if I wrong..... The presence of the ammo loops make this setup a Bandoleer....... Therefor it cannot be used "tied down" regardless of the presence of ammo or its location on the belt or holster. The removal of the loops would allow the "tying down" of the Holster as then it would no longer be a Bandoleer? PWB's answer was pretty clear... If the ammo in the loops was NOT being carried for stage reloads, he could leave the holsters tied down. 2) Simply remove the ammo from the loops while 'on the line' (another option would have been to remove the loops, but the rig COULD be worn "off the line" with ammo in them) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 The SDQ for the use or presence of illegal/outlawed items overrides the "use of illegally acquired ammo" rule (which was originally written to cover handing a shooter SG ammo, but now also applies to the rescinding of the "overload" MSV). Chronologically speaking, the act of carrying the ammo to the line in an illegal manner occurs before it is actually used. Interesting. ROI page 27 ILLEGAL ITEMS The following are examples of SASS “illegal” items. The current version of the SASS Handbook should always be used as an additional reference for illegal items. The use or presence of any outlawed item is a Stage Disqualification. • Shotgun belts not worn just above the pistol belt or touching the belly button. • Holsters departing from the vertical by more than 30 degrees when worn • Two main match revolvers worn on the same side of the body • Loading during the stage from bandoleers that are tied down in any manner • Modern shooting gloves • Short sleeve shirts (Male competitors only) • Short sleeved tee shirts, long sleeved tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. (Long sleeved Henley type shirts with buttons are allowed.) • Modern feathered cowboy hats • Designer jeans • Ball caps • Tennis, running, jogging, aerobic or other modern athletic shoes, combat boots • Apparel displaying manufacturer’s, sponsor’s or team logos. Manufacturer’s labels on such apparel or equipment are acceptable. • Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments. • Wearing a shotgun slide over shotgun loops on an ammo belt. Then it stands to reason that a shooter that engages a stage with ammunition in his hat band would also earn a stage DQ, even though it was not used and there was no intention to use it. Is that correct? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 ... Then it stands to reason that a shooter that engages a stage with ammunition in his hat band would also earn a stage DQ, even though it was not used and there was no intention to use it. Is that correct? YES. I would suggest that inert/dummy rounds be used if a shooter insists on wearing them "for show only". (there's yet another solution for Buck) The approved methods for carrying ammo for stage reloads are listed. (reference previously cited) Why even risk the call at all by forcing a match official to ASK about an equipment issue.?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 YES. Thanks. Why even risk the call at all by forcing a match official to ASK about an equipment issue.?? It was a trick question... sort of. I just wanted to be certain... because I've seen all sorts of creative solutions for carrying an extra round when a stage called for a reload or in the event that an extra round might be needed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted June 29, 2011 Share Posted June 29, 2011 There has been so much discussion on this rig, I have lost the forest for all the trees. For the rig at EOT assuming it has to be tied down to draw from holsters, please clear up the following: 1. Can shooter use live ammo in the loops, even if they are never used for the match-assumes shooter has a shotgun belt with reload pistol/rifle loops on it for reloads if required? 2. How does the shooter have to identify dummy ammo so it won't be confused as live ammo by match officials? 3. Can shooter leave ammo loops empty and be legal? If holsters are NOT tied down, I assume the rig is perfectly legal?? If shooter has a medical condition that requires modified dress, guns or leather rigs, will a doctors written directive be required in the future? Lets say shooter has a severe foot issue and has to wear certain footwear that would not normally be legal, does shooters word count or is a doctors written order required? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 If shooter has a medical condition that requires modified dress, guns or leather rigs, will a doctors written directive be required in the future? Lets say shooter has a severe foot issue and has to wear certain footwear that would not normally be legal, does shooters word count or is a doctors written order required? Due to an injury, I must wear orthopedic shoes, I've shot in local, annual, state, regional, and WR, without anyone questioning or complaining. But I guess that people can just tell by looking that they don't give me a competitive advantage. OTOH, I've seen shooters in running shoes and I'm curious what condition would require wearing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 There has been so much discussion on this rig, I have lost the forest for all the trees. For the rig at EOT assuming it has to be tied down to draw from holsters, please clear up the following: 1. Can shooter use live ammo in the loops, even if they are never used for the match-assumes shooter has a shotgun belt with reload pistol/rifle loops on it for reloads if required? 2. How does the shooter have to identify dummy ammo so it won't be confused as live ammo by match officials? 3. Can shooter leave ammo loops empty and be legal? 4. If holsters are NOT tied down, I assume the rig is perfectly legal?? 1. If the rig is tied down, no. 2. No primer or fired primer. 3. Yes. 4. Yes. IMO... if you're going to push the equipment envelope you should probably come with some documentation supporting your need for such and run it by the MD before you drop your gold dust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyatt Earp SASS#1628L Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Did ANY of the stages at EOT this year REQUIRE a reload? From looking at the shooter's handbook, I can't find any. So, why does a shooter get DQ'd for wearing a "bandoleer" tied down if the ammo in the loops was not going to be used for a reload? If I decide to go to a match dressed as Mexican bandido and wear crossed bandoleers loaded with 45-70 and tie them down so they don't flop around, am I DQ'd? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 Did ANY of the stages at EOT this year REQUIRE a reload? From looking at the shooter's handbook, I can't find any. So, why does a shooter get DQ'd for wearing a "bandoleer" tied down if the ammo in the loops was not going to be used for a reload? A stage does not have to call for a reload for a shooter to need to reload. Jack a round out of the rifle and need to reload it to avoid a miss??? That happens all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 oh for git it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 30, 2011 Share Posted June 30, 2011 oh for git it good idea...I'm workin' on that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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