Is this rig legal? You make the call.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Gosh, Doc if'n ye are handicapped enuff to need such a rig just where else would ye grab yer reloads from? Yer pockets?

 

Remember, the idea of the rig is for pards who CANNOT wear a pistol belt around the waist due to surgery, etc.

 

To allow the rig and deny the use of the loops would be mean-spirited.

 

I am astonished if it really was deemed illegal.

[Doc Shapiro]

Gosh, Doc if'n ye are handicapped enuff to need such a rig just where else would ye grab yer reloads from? Yer pockets?

 

Remember, the idea of the rig is for pards who CANNOT wear a pistol belt around the waist due to surgery, etc.

 

To allow the rig and deny the use of the loops would be mean-spirited.

 

I am astonished if it really was deemed illegal.

 

If yer disabled, I've no problem with making allowances - matter of fact, we should. For someone without any issues, reloads from it would be wrong. But we don't know the state of the person who wore it at EOT.

 

 

 

[Smoken D]

I agree with the physical handicapped problem. Someone who could not wear around the waist because of a handicap and was able to shoot with this rig I would allow. Heck of a cowboy way ta tell a pardner he could not shoot because they have a handicap not allowing them to wear waist rig and this rig would allow them to join in our cowboy fun. Price is probably right with all the extra materal and design. Have ya priced a wheel chair lift for a van, add another $20,000 to the price of a new vehicle.

[Shakey Shooter, SASS# 33849]

I believe the ruling was if it has ammo loops it is a bandoleer and can not be tied down. Solution is to remove the ammo loops and tie it down or just not tie it down.

I might be mistaken but that was my understanding. I think there will be an official posting .

 

SS

[Linn Keller, SASS 27332, BOLD 103]

I won't speculate on its legality ...

I will say instead that I am ugly enough the way it is ...

...and I can't afford the asking price ...

[Flint McCloud 3103L]

I met the guy that designed this rig for himself at Convention last December... It was, plain and simple, designed as he had a handicap that would not allow him to comfortably wear a traditional gunbelt... I have no dog in this fight, and the design is not for me (although I walk with the use of a cane), but this gent believed he had a winner that would allow him to continue to play the game... He wasn't looking for an advantage, he just wanted to compete...

 

 

Vaya con Dios

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Frankly, so long as reloads don't come from that rig, I don't see why it would be ruled illegal as a means to carry/draw/holster yer pistols. Interested in details.

 

 

I believe the ruling was if it has ammo loops it is a bandoleer and can not be tied down. Solution is to remove the ammo loops and tie it down or just not tie it down.

I might be mistaken but that was my understanding. I think there will be an official posting .

 

SS

That's what I was thinking when I saw it last night. The feller in the picture had his tied down but no ammo in the loops (remove the loops?), the lady has ammo in the loops but is not tied down. And if I remember correctly you cannot have ammo loops on suspenders either.

 

An option I've seen several times for the physically challanged is a traditional style gunbelt with shotgun slide/loops, and suspenders attached to the gun belt for support.

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

[Buckhorn Woodie]

I know the question was "is it legal?" but I am going to through my .02 in on having trouble keeping a gun belt on when you have more belly then butt.

 

my body is kind of weird shaped I am 5'9" with a 27 or 28" inseam...no legs, butt or hips and a bit of a belly keeping my gun belt up has been a pain...I had the same problem when I was working with my tools and had to wear loaded nail bags...back then I had a set of bags made with suspenders made on to them to keep them up and they were very comfortable...I have been considering doing the same thing for a gun belt...I have been wearing jeans and I would sench my paints down tight then putting on my gun belt and kind of hooking the gun belt over a large belt buckle on my paints to keep it up...needless to say by the end of a match I am hurting.

 

Least week I picked up a pair of Wamaker gun fighter paints and I'll be darnded when I tried them on with my gun belt if it did not feel 100% better and the gun belt seems to stay put...I am looking forward to next weeks match to see how I feel after the match...I know it will be an improvement and at this point I do not think I will need a gun belt with suspenders to keep it up.

 

With that being said the over the shoulder rig is just butt ugly and does not look comfortable in the least and having the problem of keeping a gun belt up I would definitely recommend a belt with suspenders vs the over the shoulder rig...one could wear the belt lose if one could not stand the pressure of a belt around the middle and distribute the waite of the guns & ammo better not to mention there would be no question of weather it was legal or illegal...just my .02

 

http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee14/wc321/Cowboy/?action=view&current=IMG_0420k.jpg

 

http://s235.photobucket.com/albums/ee14/wc321/Cowboy/?action=view&current=IMG_0420k-1.jpg

[Sgt. C.J. Sabre, SASS #46770]

I would call it illeagal. From the shooter's handbook, page 11;

 

Bandoleers, cartridge belts, and pouches must be of traditional design.

 

Nothing traditional about this rig no matter what you call it.

 

Neither is the rig that Tupalo Flash wears, but a lot of Pards seem to like it.

[Doc Coles SASS 1188]

Forget legal, its just plain ugly and I would imagine that actually wearing it would be a problem (it essentially ties your thigh to the opposite shoulder so its always going to be binding or flopping around). It looks like something some modern Hollywood type would make up cause it looks "cool" (in a fantasy sort of way). The $1,100 price tag is just the kicker!

[Griff]

If yer disabled, I've no problem with making allowances - matter of fact, we should. For someone without any issues, reloads from it would be wrong. But we don't know the state of the person who wore it at EOT.

Doc, again, we're in agreement. My only reservation would be in Classic Cowboy. I must be missing something... didn't know it had been ruled illegal, but it wouldn't surprise me. Many, many years ago, a clear departure from the norm was also ruled illegal, but I've long since forgotten those details.

 

Lone Dog, I could assume the same, but you know what they say about that habit. Henry R.A. and a number of Ruger original Old Army owners assumed their guns were legal also.

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

One of the Italian Spaghetti depicted Lee Van Cleef as a Bounty Hunter pardnered up with Clint Eastwood. He is after a villain who has a Pocket watch that belonged to some(?) woman and if memory serves me right the villain always just draped his gunbelt over his shoulder for a gunfight. No dogs in this fight and accept that all rules are not about advantage but I would say that this one does not seem to offer any. Hmmm I certainly thought that it made no sense to outlaw the the practice of wearing a crossdraw under a shoulder holster, seemed much like throwing the baby out with the bath water the way they wrote the rule.

[Charlie Whiskers]

That's what I was thinking when I saw it last night. The feller in the picture had his tied down but no ammo in the loops (remove the loops?), the lady has ammo in the loops but is not tied down. And if I remember correctly you cannot have ammo loops on suspenders either.

 

An option I've seen several times for the physically challanged is a traditional style gunbelt with shotgun slide/loops, and suspenders attached to the gun belt for support.

 

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

 

I looked at the pic of the rig the lady was wearing and it does have tie downs for the holsters.She just didn't have them tied down in the pic.Does that mean it's legal because she hadn't tied them down for the pic and if she does it's illegal?I know Buck and like was said;He just likes to shoot and have fun.Buck's idea of getting an advantage is joking and heckling,not using what may be illegal equipment.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Just as further input.

 

Buck, The shooter in the advertisement, wears an insulin pump. Although he can wear a regular rig around his waist, it is more comfortable to wear this shoulder rig, as he doesn't have to remove the rig to operate the pump. He wears his shotgun shell belt at the waist, but it comes off and goes back on a lot quicker.

I'm inclined to make ALLOWANCES for this shooter due to his medical condition even though he can wear standard gear.

The lady in the advertisement is Buck's mother and the only reason it isn't tied down is because she is wearing a skirt.

[Charlie Whiskers]

Just as further input.

 

Buck, The shooter in the advertisement, wears an insulin pump. Although he can wear a regular rig around his waist, it is more comfortable to wear this shoulder rig, as he doesn't have to remove the rig to operate the pump. He wears his shotgun shell belt at the waist, but it comes off and goes back on a lot quicker.

I'm inclined to make ALLOWANCES for this shooter due to his medical condition even though he can wear standard gear.

The lady in the advertisement is Buck's mother and the only reason it isn't tied down is because she is wearing a skirt.

 

 

HI ACE....I knew about the insulin pump and I know Buck's mom and his whole family.All very GOOD people.I guess the point I was trying to make the the whole "tie down thing".What gets me is that Hipshot said it's ok....and it was later declared illegal?????What brilliant minds came up with that over-ruling of an already OK'd rig?I'd bet if one of the "Wild Bunch" saw it 1st and liked it,it'd be classified as a legal rig.One question.....IF he chooses NOT to carry ammo in the loops....is it legal then?

[Slowhand Bob, 24229]

I'm thinking that the powers that be are a bit busy this week but perhaps we can get some guidance be mid week coming. Sometimes we can all make a good faith response a bit to quickly, only to later find out we were incorrect.

[Ace_of_Hearts]

If the definition of Bandoleer is - a wide belt hung over the shoulder with pockets for ammunition - then it is a bandoleer and therefore cannot be tied down.

If the ammunition is removed then is it still what it is?

If the ammunition is left in place but not used, is it still illegal? (one ponders dummy rounds in a hatband)(What if I put bullets in my ears because I forgot my earplugs).

 

Typically, Bandoleers are used for shotgun shells, not rifle or pistol reloads, but the rules are not specific. It also says that they must be of TYPICAL design. This rig is not TYPICAL.

 

It's just a shame that such a nice kid get's DQ'd when he thought he was doing everything correctly. He has even spent days at the convention modeling the rig in the Mernickle booth without so much as a peep from anyone.

 

I am sure that Mernickle will make it right as the family is good friends with the company.

[Rube Burrows]

I think its U G L Y.....and way too expensive for a rig.

[Creeker, SASS #43022]

It's just a shame that such a nice kid get's DQ'd when he thought he was doing everything correctly. He has even spent days at the convention modeling the rig in the Mernickle booth without so much as a peep from anyone.

 

That's the part that gets me.

Buck is good guy and would never knowingly go outside the boundaries of the rules.

Buck spent EVERYDAY at the SASS convention wearing that rig and no one from the SASS elite ever looked at it?

 

One also must keep in mind the old adage "No one in cowboy cares about what you're doing until you start beating them"

Makes ya wonder who protested the rig...

[Bad Bascomb, SASS # 47,494]

The gentleman in question (and he is in every sense of the word) was on my

posse at one of our shoots. I guess we weren't bothered by his rig because

there were no reloads required during the match.....

Actually, I personally never gave it a thought. Holsters weren't tied down,

and no one was bothered by its unusual nature in that it was safe, and was

used safely.

Now, perhaps if he had been tearing up the match and threatening to win a

category, there might have been more attention paid. But I suspect it would

have been in the form of immitation......

 

At any rate, he's welcome to shoot on my posse any time.

[Marshal Mo Hare, SASS #45984]

Perfectly legal. Not a "Bandoleer." Poor choice of models though. I'd have preferred Raquel.

 

Coffinmaker

 

Raquel wouldn't need it. She has, mmmmmm, hips. :o

[Presidio]

Personally, I ain't got a use for it and believe it to be too dang unconfortable to wear all day at a shoot. Legally perspective...keep it tied down and use it to your liking as a NON-bandolier. I would think a rig like that would fall easily under "B" Western.

 

Ain't got a dog in this here fight, and I live in a short tree if'n someone cares to bark up at it.

[Olen Rugged]

Two observations here:

 

Cartridge loops in general are decorative (especially those on the back of the belt).

 

When was the last time you reloaded a revolver on the clock?

 

Shotgun loops are an altogether different story, and I don't see any on this rig.

 

Without loops, no call; with loops, just a reminder from the TO, RO or Posse Marshal.

 

Nothin' hard about this as far as I can tell...

 

Olen

[Anvil Al #59168]

When was the last time you reloaded a revolver on the clock?

 

Texas State Championship. This year.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't matter what any of us think. I am sure it was looked at by some of the best

rules people we have, at EOT.

 

And if they say NOT legal. Then it is not. I am sure one of the rule folks like PaleWolf was there,

and would have stepped in if that was the wrong call.

 

Just a shame he was not told that sooner.

[Noz]

We had a shooter that used a gunbelt held up by suspenders because of a colostomy. Don't see a lot of difference between his rig and this one.

 

I see no competitive edge that might be gained so I'd say if you have a need for such a rig, wear it. You can shoot with us.

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Hello,

 

I find this to be a very sad situation.

 

Was he able to get/borrow...another rig and shoot? I found several Bucks in the scores and none were with the 999s (DQ, DNF...).

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Gold Canyon Kid #43974]

Well if the story is true that Hipshot had originally approved the gun belt(s), then if they gave him a match DQ lets hope the Wild Bunch also felt fit to refund his EOT entry fees. I have always believed rulings by Hipshot were as good as gold. Sure would like to hear the complete story-seems like we are only getting bits and pieces.

[Shooting Bull]

Hello,

 

I find this to be a very sad situation.

 

Was he able to get/borrow...another rig and shoot? I found several Bucks in the scores and none were with the 999s (DQ, DNF...).

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

Lightning Buck McGraw in Cowboy. If I'm reading the scores correctly, he got in 9 stages before getting handed an MDQ.

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

Deleted

[Filthy Harry, SASS #24924]

NOT B-Western. A Buscadero rig has a gun belt around the waist. Any other category, if medically needed, fine.

[Grizzly Dave]

Hello,

 

I find this to be a very sad situation.

 

...

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

 

It sure is, it sure appears that the feller did all he could do to try to play by the rules.

 

 

Well if the story is true that Hipshot had originally approved the gun belt(s), then if they gave him a match DQ lets hope the Wild Bunch also felt fit to refund his EOT entry fees. I have always believed rulings by Hipshot were as good as gold. Sure would like to hear the complete story-seems like we are only getting bits and pieces.

 

A big +1 to that.

[Jake Stoner , SASS # 28994]

Slowhand Bob's reference was in For A Few Dollars More. El Indio has a buscadero rig thrown over his shoulder and draws right hand crossdraw, no tiedown. The rig in question here gives no advantage in any way. Still, it's a gun belt worn differently. Bottom line - If the info is correct, why was he DQ'd after 9 stages?

 

The pocket watch was taken from Van Cleef's sister.

 

thats about 2 cents worth.....

[Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217]

Thanks Philly,

 

How very strange!

 

He shot for two days before getting a SDQ on the third day? We know everyone is a safety officer. However, not everone gets to be a judge of illegal equipment. So, someone on his posse waited until the third day to call illegal equipment?

 

Whatever, to be legit to me, this should have been called on the first stage, then the shooter could have taken action (borrowed something) to remedy the action.

 

Furthermore, two stage DQs, the scores show four, should equal a match DQ. He shows scores for eight stages. I would expect correct scoring at the World Championships, which would be all 999s.

 

One more thing, if he had a legitimate health reason, this stinks and if Hipshot gave him the okay, he should have appealed.

 

That said, I am waiting to hear more than "hearsay" about what happened.

 

Regards,

 

Allie Mo

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

legal or not - yuck!

 

GG ~

[Bad Hand]

Texas State Championship. This year.

 

 

 

 

 

Don't matter what any of us think. I am sure it was looked at by some of the best

rules people we have, at EOT.

 

And if they say NOT legal. Then it is not. I am sure one of the rule folks like PaleWolf was there,

and would have stepped in if that was the wrong call.

 

Just a shame he was not told that sooner.

 

 

I agree, this was apparently decided by the PTB at EOT, and our comments here are just a waste of band width. As they would say in court, "the question has been asked and answered" move on.