Smithy Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 First off I want to thank all the folks that I've ran into in this sport. It's been a real blast and even though I'm probably a few dollars down, I wouldn't have passed it up for anything. It has been a real learning experience and fun to boot. I've met a lot of really nice folks at the ranges and here on the Wire and even though a few feathers got ruffled at times it all came out good in the end. I really want to thank the pards that helped me when I was selling out my gear. You don't know how much that helped around the house and got me started into my next endeavor of 44 magnum smokeless. A round that I'll be able to load and shoot locally so I'm definitely looking forward to it. Now as you all know, I had a thing for Ruger Bisley Vaquero's. In SASS it was 45 LC. Out of SASS to go 44 mag I had to go to an Old Model Bisley Vaquero to get one in 44 magnum. I've done just that, but with the sales and the purchase I never had the two guns in my hands at the same time. The old model does appear to be a bit larger with a slightly longer grip, but it's anyone's guess as I couldn't tell you for sure and my dealer doesn't know either. Does anyone know for sure what the difference is between a new model 45 LC Ruger Bisley Vaquero and an Old Model 44 Magnum Ruger Bisley Vaquero, besides the obvious caliber differences? Thanks in advance and I'll see all you folks down the trail sometime, it sure has been fun. Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Main Frame is smaller on New Vaquero, grip frame is the same as the old model. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Your terminology is wrong and confusing. There are NO Old Model Vaqueros. There are NO Old Model Bisleys. Never has been, never will be, can never be. There are only Vaqueros and New Vaqueros. There are only Bisley Vaqueros and Bisley New Vaqueros. All four guns are New Model Rugers. None are Old Model anything. The Bisley Vaquero is on the New Model Blackhawk size frame. The Bisley New Vaquero is on the mid-size New Vaquero frame. Yes of course, one is bigger than the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Your terminology is wrong and confusing. There are NO Old Model Vaqueros. There are NO Old Model Bisleys. Never has been, never will be, can never be. There are only Vaqueros and New Vaqueros. There are only Bisley Vaqueros and Bisley New Vaqueros. All four guns are New Model Rugers. None are Old Model anything. The Bisley Vaquero is on the New Model Blackhawk size frame. The Bisley New Vaquero is on the mid-size New Vaquero frame. Yes of course, one is bigger than the other. Get over it! Why don't you argue the point with Long Hunter, here's the note he includes with his Ruger springs http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/LoneRiderLeather/longhunterinstructions.jpg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc McGee, SASS #51213 Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Smithy, Take at least one of the above posts with a grain of salt. Don't matter what ya call em. MOST of us know what yer talkin 'bout. I like the Old Model Vaquero Bisleys , all of mine either were purchased that way or I've converted them to Bisley grips. I especially like the weight and strength. The weight both adds stability and reduces muzzle flip a little. The frame strength means I don't need to be AS concerned about heavy hunting loads separating the top strap from the revolver. As was stated, the grips are the same, it is only the frames on the OMV and NMV that are different. Doc McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hand Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 I have an Original Bisley Vaquero, a new Bisley vaquero, and a single-six bisley, the grips interchange on all 5 of mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Main Frame is smaller on New Vaquero, grip frame is the same as the old model. X2 that IS the only difference between the two. Lone Dog GET OVER IT WE ALL knew what the OP was speaking of Cheers, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smithy Posted June 25, 2011 Author Share Posted June 25, 2011 Sorry about my terminology, and to add to the confusion I wanted to pick up a Wolff spring kit for my Bisly Vaquero in 44 magnum (I used to say Old Model) from Brownells. They had a kit that was listed part n parcel with the Old Army, one and the same! A 19# main spring, reduced trigger, and beefier cylinder rod retention spring whereas the same kit for the new model had a 17# mainspring. I was trying to figure out why the big difference in poundage between the two? Unless it was a length of spring type of thing? Being longer ie. more poundage on the first model and shorter ie. less poundage on the new model? And where does this place the Bisley Hunter in 44 magnum? Would that be an Old or New model design? Smithy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Original Lumpy Gritz Posted June 25, 2011 Share Posted June 25, 2011 Go to the Wolff Gunsprings site. It has more detail. Look at stock # 30395 and #17103, then you could "tune" as you like. You could call'em too. 1 800 545 0077 Cheers, LG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchum Quick, SASS #72923 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Your terminology is wrong and confusing. There are NO Old Model Vaqueros. There are NO Old Model Bisleys. Never has been, never will be, can never be. There are only Vaqueros and New Vaqueros. There are only Bisley Vaqueros and Bisley New Vaqueros. All four guns are New Model Rugers. None are Old Model anything. The Bisley Vaquero is on the New Model Blackhawk size frame. The Bisley New Vaquero is on the mid-size New Vaquero frame. Yes of course, one is bigger than the other. There was an old model Vaquero and a old model Bisley Vaqueros. You are confusing Old Model Blackhawks and New Model Blackhawks with Vaqueros, Bisley Vaqueros. Old Model Blackhawks refer to the lockwork inside of the "original" Blackhawks. I just can't understand why you guys who jump on this get your panties in such a wad. Do you lie awake at night worring about this. You can't be so friggin anal that you don't understand or can not relate to what the term old model Vaquero and old model Bilsey Vaquero are refering too can you???? I would bet that if you polled a thousand CAS folks who shoot Rugers you would not find more than 50 who understood your arguement for the "correct" nomenclature and I bet most of the rest would know what old model Vaquero means. Meaning they last model before the current. You should hang out at rugerforum.com there are some anal retentive folks over there that would appreciate your diatribe to the fullest extent. KQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Get over it! Why don't you argue the point with Long Hunter, here's the note he includes with his Ruger springs http://i222.photobucket.com/albums/dd133/LoneRiderLeather/longhunterinstructions.jpg +1 GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 There was an old model Vaquero and a old model Bisley Vaqueros. You are confusing Old Model Blackhawks and New Model Blackhawks with Vaqueros, Bisley Vaqueros. Old Model Blackhawks refer to the lockwork inside of the "original" Blackhawks. I just can't understand why you guys who jump on this get your panties in such a wad. Do you lie awake at night worring about this. You can't be so friggin anal that you don't understand or can not relate to what the term old model Vaquero and old model Bilsey Vaquero are refering too can you???? I would bet that if you polled a thousand CAS folks who shoot Rugers you would not find more than 50 who understood your arguement for the "correct" nomenclature and I bet most of the rest would know what old model Vaquero means. Meaning they last model before the current. You should hang out at rugerforum.com there are some anal retentive folks over there that would appreciate your diatribe to the fullest extent. KQ GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Sorry about my terminology, and to add to the confusion I wanted to pick up a Wolff spring kit for my Bisly Vaquero in 44 magnum (I used to say Old Model) from Brownells. They had a kit that was listed part n parcel with the Old Army, one and the same! A 19# main spring, reduced trigger, and beefier cylinder rod retention spring whereas the same kit for the new model had a 17# mainspring. I was trying to figure out why the big difference in poundage between the two? Unless it was a length of spring type of thing? Being longer ie. more poundage on the first model and shorter ie. less poundage on the new model? And where does this place the Bisley Hunter in 44 magnum? Would that be an Old or New model design? Smithy. There was an old model Vaquero and a old model Bisley Vaqueros. You are confusing Old Model Blackhawks and New Model Blackhawks with Vaqueros, Bisley Vaqueros. Old Model Blackhawks refer to the lockwork inside of the "original" Blackhawks. I just can't understand why you guys who jump on this get your panties in such a wad. Do you lie awake at night worring about this. You can't be so friggin anal that you don't understand or can not relate to what the term old model Vaquero and old model Bilsey Vaquero are refering too can you???? I would bet that if you polled a thousand CAS folks who shoot Rugers you would not find more than 50 who understood your arguement for the "correct" nomenclature and I bet most of the rest would know what old model Vaquero means. Meaning they last model before the current. You should hang out at rugerforum.com there are some anal retentive folks over there that would appreciate your diatribe to the fullest extent. KQ Smithy, of course you are confused, hanging out here with cowboys who think there is such a thing as an Old Model Vaquero. The Bisley Hunter is a New Model Ruger. As are all Ruger single action revolvers made since 1973. That includes ALL Bisleys, fixed sight and adjustable sight. And All Vaqueros, original/old/big what we used to call RVs and New Vaqueros are New Model Rugers. Any single action Ruger revolver made with pins and incorporating a transfer bar are New Model Rugers. Old Model Rugers use screws and have no transfer bar, the last ones were made in 1973. KQ, I am not confusing anything. I KNOW the difference. But the cowboys here persist in their folly. The worst thing Ruger could have possibly done is call the new fixed sight mid-size frame revolver the New Vaquero. Why cowboys want to put that word Model in descriptions is beyond me. Everyone used to refer to the original Vaquero with the abbreviation RV. Now RV has been supplanted by the misnomer OMV. One more letter to type and it's an impossible thing to be. And why stick the word Model in a description when doing so makes it wrong? Just say old Vaquero or original Vaquero. Why say New Model Vaquero which is redundant (ALL Vaqueros, new and old are New Model Rugers) when you can just say New Vaquero? One word less. The gamer way. Old Vaquero and New Vaquero, leave out the Model. RVs and NVs. Leave out the M, the gamer way. One less letter to type. It is all about the lockwork. If a Ruger has pins and a transfer bar it canNOT be any kind of an Old Model, it is by defintion a New Model. Only if it has screws and NO transfer bar can it be called an Old Model. Last ones were made in 1973. The oldest Vaquero (RV) is twenty years too new to be an Old Model Ruger. Being right is not being anal. And yes the folks over at the Ruger forum know what is right. It's only here that it's like beating ye head agin a brick wall. For some mysterious perverse reason the cowfolks here insist on getting it wrong and refusing to listen or get it right like the rest of the world. No thanks, Jack I ain't ever gonna "get over it". The only causes worth fighting for are lost causes, don'tchaknow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchum Quick, SASS #72923 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Smithy, of course you are confused, hanging out here with cowboys who think there is such a thing as an Old Model Vaquero. The Bisley Hunter is a New Model Ruger. As are all Ruger single action revolvers made since 1973. That includes ALL Bisleys, fixed sight and adjustable sight. And All Vaqueros, original/old/big what we used to call RVs and New Vaqueros are New Model Rugers. Any single action Ruger revolver made with pins and incorporating a transfer bar are New Model Rugers. Old Model Rugers use screws and have no transfer bar, the last ones were made in 1973. KQ, I am not confusing anything. I KNOW the difference. But the cowboys here persist in their folly. The worst thing Ruger could have possibly done is call the new fixed sight mid-size frame revolver the New Vaquero. Why cowboys want to put that word Model in descriptions is beyond me. Everyone used to refer to the original Vaquero with the abbreviation RV. Now RV has been supplanted by the misnomer OMV. One more letter to type and it's an impossible thing to be. And why stick the word Model in a description when doing so makes it wrong? Just say old Vaquero or original Vaquero. Why say New Model Vaquero which is redundant (ALL Vaqueros, new and old are New Model Rugers) when you can just say New Vaquero? One word less. The gamer way. Old Vaquero and New Vaquero, leave out the Model. RVs and NVs. Leave out the M, the gamer way. One less letter to type. It is all about the lockwork. If a Ruger has pins and a transfer bar it canNOT be any kind of an Old Model, it is by defintion a New Model. Only if it has screws and NO transfer bar can it be called an Old Model. Last ones were made in 1973. The oldest Vaquero (RV) is twenty years too new to be an Old Model Ruger. Being right is not being anal. And yes the folks over at the Ruger forum know what is right. It's only here that it's like beating ye head agin a brick wall. For some mysterious perverse reason the cowfolks here insist on getting it wrong and refusing to listen or get it right like the rest of the world. No thanks, Jack I ain't ever gonna "get over it". The only causes worth fighting for are lost causes, don'tchaknow. Simple question for ya.... when anybody uses the term old model Vaquero, do you know what they are refering too? If you do then it is a moot point to point out the whole thing about the OM Blackhawks don't you think? It is just english, a screwed up language. Think of it this way Ruger never made any "Old Model" Blackhawks either. They just got labeled that way when someone at Ruger thought the original guns should have been recalled. The needed a name to keep the two very different types of Blackhawks sorted out in their minds. If the older or last model Vaqueros and Vaquero Bisleys were recalled today, I would bet they would from this day forward, refered to as Old Model Vaqueros by them. We can agree to disagree about the relevantness this if you would like but I believe it is a silly point to bring up everytime I see someone jump on the topic. Best Regards, KQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 Simple question for ya.... when anybody uses the term old model Vaquero, do you know what they are refering too? If you do then it is a moot point to point out the whole thing about the OM Blackhawks don't you think? It is just english, a screwed up language. Think of it this way Ruger never made any "Old Model" Blackhawks either. They just got labeled that way when someone at Ruger thought the original guns should have been recalled. The needed a name to keep the two very different types of Blackhawks sorted out in their minds. If the older or last model Vaqueros and Vaquero Bisleys were recalled today, I would bet they would from this day forward, refered to as Old Model Vaqueros by them. We can agree to disagree about the relevantness this if you would like but I believe it is a silly point to bring up everytime I see someone jump on the topic. Best Regards, KQ In the interest of relevantness (would that be anything like relevance?), Ruger most assuredly made a bunch of Old Model Blackhawks. All Blackhawks made from 1955 until the advent of the New Model Blackhawk in 1973 are Old Model Blackhawks. It doesn't distress me, but it certainly disheartens me that folks here want to characterize me and the fine folks at the Ruger forum as anal, pedantic dunderheads. We are not. I would never characterize the fine pards here so. Mostly, I think, it's a follow the leader thing. They see that OMV repeated over and over and think it is correct nomenclature when it never was, is not, and can never be. Type OMV over there and you will be politely corrected by knowledeable folks. Point it out here, best have asbestos long johns. Sigh... Ah well, I know I am beat and outnumbered manyfold. Everyone here is agin me except for Tucson Jim, who is much more knowledgable than I. I just wish he would chime in more as he is much more eloquent than my feeble efforts. Try to remember folks, ALL Vaqueros are New Models. Smithy, there are no 44 Mag New Vaqueros or New Vaquero Bisleys. Ruger has emphasized that they won't be making any, ever. There have been special runs of 44 Spcl New Vaqs for certain distributors, haven't heard of any 44 special New Vaquero Bisleys. If a Bisley Vaquero is chambered for 44 Mag, rest assured it is an old, big frame version. Or, as they say around here, "OMV" size. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchum Quick, SASS #72923 Posted June 26, 2011 Share Posted June 26, 2011 In the interest of relevantness (would that be anything like relevance?), Ruger most assuredly made a bunch of Old Model Blackhawks. All Blackhawks made from 1955 until the advent of the New Model Blackhawk in 1973 are Old Model Blackhawks. Lone Dog, I would have to challenge you on that. Show me one, just one, of the original Blackhawks with the cylinder frame stamped "Old Model Blackhawk" and factory original. I am sorry for the lashing but I do not see the importance of the argument here. This is not the rugerforum. I have been a long time member there and still frequent it almost every day. I believe that most of the shooters in SASS could care less about the OM nomenclature. Jumping on a poster when it is used is senseless. Everyone knows what is meant when the term old model Vaquero is used. If you are confused about whether or not Ruger made a gun with the lock work like the Old Model Blackhawks...... well they didn't. Have a great day, KQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 I am not the least bit confused about what Ruger has made and when they made it. There are certainly thousands of Old Model Blackhawks even tho they don't say Old Model Blackhawk on the side of the frame. Why would they? Until the New Model was introduced they were just Blackhawks. As soon as the New Model Blackhawk came out then they necessarily became Old Models. It is specifically BECAUSE of the type of lockwork used that there can be no Old Model Vaqueros. All Vaqueros are New Model Rugers, for the umpteenth time. It is that misnomer OMV that is confusing. Witness our pard Smithy. Why say OMV when it is wrong and unnecessary. Just say OV where the "O" stands for old or original. No need to put the wrong and unnecessary "M" or Model in there. Just say New Vaquero or NV not New Model Vaquero or NMV. It's wrong, a misnomer and confusing. Leaving the M or Model out is LESS confusing, faster and the gamer way to say or type it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bones McCracken SASS #46721 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 Your terminology is wrong and confusing. There are NO Old Model Vaqueros. There are NO Old Model Bisleys. Never has been, never will be, can never be. There are only Vaqueros and New Vaqueros. There are only Bisley Vaqueros and Bisley New Vaqueros. All four guns are New Model Rugers. None are Old Model anything. The Bisley Vaquero is on the New Model Blackhawk size frame. The Bisley New Vaquero is on the mid-size New Vaquero frame. Yes of course, one is bigger than the other. ... hair splitting reble rouser... if'n ya need a dog ta kick, Get One! Smithy asked an honest question, never heard a request in there for havin his head bit off. Ps. In the Classified section I currently have for sale a pair of OLD MODEL BISLEY VAQUERO'S in .45cal. 5 1/2" Blue/case-colored... damn straight they are OLD MODEL, that way NO ONE will think they are the Newer Model. I was once called a child, then I got older. I am now called Dad. And one day, when she is older I will be called Grandpa. Names Change with the times... you can too! (but me thinks you would rather be Right(eous) than Correct. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketchum Quick, SASS #72923 Posted June 27, 2011 Share Posted June 27, 2011 ... hair splitting reble rouser... if'n ya need a dog ta kick, Get One! Smithy asked an honest question, never heard a request in there for havin his head bit off. Ps. In the Classified section I currently have for sale a pair of OLD MODEL BISLEY VAQUERO'S in .45cal. 5 1/2" Blue/case-colored... damn straight they are OLD MODEL, that way NO ONE will think they are the Newer Model. I was once called a child, then I got older. I am now called Dad. And one day, when she is older I will be called Grandpa. Names Change with the times... you can too! (but me thinks you would rather be Right(eous) than Correct. That is all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Capt. Jack McQuesten 56937 Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 Personally, I think we ought to use the Colt method for identifying the different models of Ruger single actions, such as 1st Generation, 2nd Generation, 3rd, Generation, etc..... It would make identifying them a whole lot easier! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mustang Gregg Posted June 28, 2011 Share Posted June 28, 2011 There's another CAS forum you can get a load of Ruger info on. Go to www.cascity.com and make your way down to the RATS forum. R=Rugers A=Are the T=Toughest S=Six-shooters The part of the forum is moderated by yours truly. Mustang Gregg RATS #0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.