Afghanistan

[Trigger Mike]

Now that our leader has declared we will start pulling out our troops and made no mention of our victory over there, there is something besides the political and security ramifications to think about. Our Soldiers. No one seems to consider or care that perhaps some soldiers will come home feeling empty, lack of accomplishment for their time and loss of friends, a feeling like they left something unfinished, a feeling of being incomplete inside, A feeling that they wasted their time for a country who failed to let them finish what the terrorist started. I am sure they would gladly do it again, but at the same time some of those feelings may well reside inside of them. These feelings are on top of the other feelings that come even from a clearly victorious war. If our president made it clear what victory meant and that we had acheived it then it would be better, but I do not hear that word, "Victory" in his vocabulary.

 

The terrorist used Afghanistan as a base to train and launch their attack on 9-11-01. We should pray for our soldiers that they be granted peace of mind.

[Clay Mosby]

Amen to that.

[Dusty Balz, SASS#46599]

I ain't saying nothing, promised BH I wouldn't

[Utah Bob #35998]

I will answer this from a sociological view rather than a political one.

No one seems to consider or care that perhaps some soldiers will come home feeling empty, lack of accomplishment for their time and loss of friends, a feeling like they left something unfinished, a feeling of being incomplete inside, A feeling that they wasted their time for a country who failed to let them finish what the terrorist started.

 

I respectfully disagree. This isn't 1972. Look at the groundswell of support for these young troops. The Patriot Riders, Wounded Warrior Project, increased emphasis on PTSD treatments, etc etc.The military has acquitted itself tremendously id a difficult challenging mission and emerges as the best trained, equipped, and experienced fighting force in the world. They have crippled Al Qaeda and decimated the Taliban. They have accomplished every mission with which they have been tasked. They will continue to be on guard for us in the future. The current conflict simply cannot go on forever in it's present incarnation.

 

These Americans have been returning for 10 years now and by and large have the respect and love of the civilian population. A far cry from the conditions that existed for my generation. Lessons have been learned.

"Victory" is a politically incorrect term for politicians these days. And maybe I can understand why. Nobody is ever truly "victorious" in a war. Only in a battle.

But they and their rhetoric really mean nothing. It's the support of the people of this great nation that I still see as the strongest and best motivator for the brave members of our armed forces.

 

If you see a soldier, slap him on the back. Shake a sailor's hand, Give a Marine a "Semper Fi". Give an airman a thumbs up.

 

That means more that the hollow words of those in Washington.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I don't think Afghanistan is worth trying to bring it into the civilized world. God bless our troops and lets give them something worth doing.

[Utah Bob #35998]

I have to add this..

 

 

Just watching the start of the Rockies/Yankees game. Ball is popped foul behind the plate and out of play. One of those major league stratosphere-seeking balls that eventually comes down after you go get a beer, It hits off the concrete, bounces way high again heads toward a strapping young fella wearing a USMC t-shirt sitting in the section of the stands reserved for the military.

He takes off his ball cap, reaches out and snags the ball. He holds it up to a rousing ovation from the crowd. He has a souvenir ball, an ear to ear grin, and one arm.

 

Semper Fi ,son. Semper FI!

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I hear ya Trigger Mike...and so do a couple of my military pards. What they say is good for me.

 

 

GG

[Trigger Mike]

I will answer this from a sociological view rather than a political one.

 

 

I respectfully disagree. This isn't 1972. Look at the groundswell of support for these young troops. The Patriot Riders, Wounded Warrior Project, increased emphasis on PTSD treatments, etc etc.The military has acquitted itself tremendously id a difficult challenging mission and emerges as the best trained, equipped, and experienced fighting force in the world. They have crippled Al Qaeda and decimated the Taliban. They have accomplished every mission with which they have been tasked. They will continue to be on guard for us in the future. The current conflict simply cannot go on forever in it's present incarnation.

 

These Americans have been returning for 10 years now and by and large have the respect and love of the civilian population. A far cry from the conditions that existed for my generation. Lessons have been learned.

"Victory" is a politically incorrect term for politicians these days. And maybe I can understand why. Nobody is ever truly "victorious" in a war. Only in a battle.

But they and their rhetoric really mean nothing. It's the support of the people of this great nation that I still see as the strongest and best motivator for the brave members of our armed forces.

 

If you see a soldier, slap him on the back. Shake a sailor's hand, Give a Marine a "Semper Fi". Give an airman a thumbs up.

 

That means more that the hollow words of those in Washington.

I hope you are right Bob and will not argue the point, though We did not finish the 1st Gulf War and yet came home to lots of support, and I felt that way until we finally went back in and did what we should have the first time. I always feel embarrased whenever someone comes up to thank me. I feel like I did not do anything worthy of any one's gratitude. I just did what I was assigned to do and left when they told me to. While I am glad for a thank you, I feel it was what I signed up for long before we heard of Iraq.

[Forty Rod SASS 3935]

Now that our leader has declared we will start pulling out our troops and made no mention of our victory over there, there is something besides the political and security ramifications to think about. Our Soldiers. No one seems to consider or care that perhaps some soldiers will come home feeling empty, lack of accomplishment for their time and loss of friends, a feeling like they left something unfinished, a feeling of being incomplete inside, A feeling that they wasted their time for a country who failed to let them finish what the terrorist started. I am sure they would gladly do it again, but at the same time some of those feelings may well reside inside of them. These feelings are on top of the other feelings that come even from a clearly victorious war. If our president made it clear what victory meant and that we had acheived it then it would be better, but I do not hear that word, "Victory" in his vocabulary.

 

The terrorist used Afghanistan as a base to train and launch their attack on 9-11-01. We should pray for our soldiers that they be granted peace of mind.

 

We haven't had a "victory" since 1945. Haven't really sincerely fought a "war" since then with the intention to WIN it since then, either.

 

Yeah! We could all use some "completion".

[Bama Red]

I gotta agree with UB (and BTW, welcome home!) about the support for the troops and the military in general. Wife and I were in the Huntsville (AL) Olive Garden earlier this afternoon and there was an Army captain 9in uniform) and his wife/girlfriend/SO eating supper. I immediately went back to the hostess station and said I would like to pay for their meal. Guess what? Some other customer had already beat me to it! Plenty of support out there this time around. When they stood up to leave, they got a good round of applause from the other diners, too!

[Abilene Slim SASS 81783]

In order to declare victory, you have to define what it is. You can't define victory without first defining the objective. That definition has been glaringly absent since 1945.

 

Thank a veteran who does his or her duty without demanding an explanation...

 

[Charlie Harley, #14153]

"Victory" is a term applied by historians and politicians who want to simplify a situation that is inherently complex.

 

Gratitude for our soldiers' service is completely disconnected from any abstract concept of victory. Do you think the families in Alabama shunned Johnny when he came home after Appomattox? How about Mr. and Mrs. Schmidt when their son, Klauss, was finally released from the Russian POW camp?

 

Our country has come full circle and then some as far as the gratitude we show our returning soldiers, and they are nothing but proud of the job they've done.

 

Let's leave the "victory" part to history and be grateful for our men and women who did their jobs.

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

"The willingness with which our young people are likely to serve in any war, no matter how justified, is directly proportional to how they perceive the veterans of earlier wars were treated and appreciated"

 

-- George Washington

 

"A man good enough to shed his blood for his country is good enough to be given a square deal afterwards..."

 

-Theodore Roosevelt

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

When this whole thing started after the attack on us President Bush said it was a 'different' type of war that will last 'decades'. People accepted that, yet after several years they complain that it's taking too long, this and that.....

 

Just something to think about ~ in this world instant gratification is demanded and people have become impatient. Sadly, it will only allow the enemy to regroup and hit us again, just as hard if not harder.

 

GG ~

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

When this whole thing started after the attack on us President Bush said it was a 'different' type of war that will last 'decades'. People accepted that, yet after several years they complain that it's taking too long, this and that.....

 

Just something to think about ~ in this world instant gratification is demanded and people have become impatient. Sadly, it will only allow the enemy to regroup and hit us again, just as hard if not harder.

 

GG ~

 

You're right Gunner. I think "shortsighted" would be a good adjective to describe some folk's view.

 

Muslims invaded Spain in 711, and weren't fully pushed out until 1492; they invaded Sicily and Italy in 752 and weren't pushed out until 1291; they invaded Georgia in 735 and weren't pushed out until 1122. Then there was that Crusade business from 1095 to 1272.

 

This has been going on for 1300 years. A decade is barely the blink of an eye when you look at the history.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

You're right Gunner. I think "shortsighted" would be a good adjective to describe some folk's view.

 

Muslims invaded Spain in 711, and weren't fully pushed out until 1492; they invaded Sicily and Italy in 752 and weren't pushed out until 1291; they invaded Georgia in 735 and weren't pushed out until 1122. Then there was that Crusade business from 1095 to 1272.

 

This has been going on for 1300 years. A decade is barely the blink of an eye when you look at the history.

 

 

Yeah sadly...but that's the reality...today it's hidden enemy infiltrating society, law, and policies. It certainly is very very difficult...WE CAN'T EVER GIVE UP - EVER!!

 

THANK GOD FOR OUR MEN AND WOMEN IN OUR ARMED FORCES AND THE JOB THEY DO!!

 

GG ~

[Utah Bob #35998]

When this whole thing started after the attack on us President Bush said it was a 'different' type of war that will last 'decades'. People accepted that, yet after several years they complain that it's taking too long, this and that.....

 

Just something to think about ~ in this world instant gratification is demanded and people have become impatient. Sadly, it will only allow the enemy to regroup and hit us again, just as hard if not harder.

 

GG ~

Americans want results. Now. They are very short sighted and with poor memories. Foreign wars have to be brief to maintain public approval in this country.

No attacks on our shores for 10 years leads to a sense of complacency unfortunately.

Even WWII was getting old by '45. Bond drives made less and less money. People were tired. Thank goodness it didn't stretch out any longer or the world might have turned out very different.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Americans want results. Now. They are very short sighted and with poor memories. Foreign wars have to be brief to maintain public approval in this country.

No attacks on our shores for 10 years leads to a sense of complacency unfortunately.

Even WWII was getting old by '45. Bond drives made less and less money. People were tired. Thank goodness it didn't stretch out any longer or the world might have turned out very different.

 

Yeah I hear ya with WWII, even with Vietnam - however, this war ain't the same though...different type of enemy...it certainly doesn't follow the same conventions as wars we have fought before it.

 

GG ~

[twelve mile REB]

The objective of a fight whether it’s a war or you in a parking lot is to make the antagonists stop doing what ever it is they are doing. Any fight that isn’t concluded with the termination of the activities that started it in the first place is ultimately failure. The respect that the populace shows or bestows upon its warriors is separate from its government’s willingness to fight a political approval war.

12

[Utah Bob #35998]

Yeah I hear ya with WWII, even with Vietnam - however, this war ain't the same though...different type of enemy...it certainly doesn't follow the same conventions as wars we have fought before it.

 

GG ~

 

Actually this war parrallels almost identically the situation in Vietnam from the end of the Indo-China war in 54 until the influx of large American units in 64. The VC operated with foreign support, attacking civilian targets, conducting military operations, conscripting troops from local villages and demanding taxes. When they were rendered ineffective

due to US counterinsurgency operations, the North Vietnamese main force units had to take up the fight.

The Taliban were soundly defeated in Afghanistan in 2001-2002 by Special Forces using local fighters and the same techniques.

 

But then we invaded Iraq..........

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Actually this war parrallels almost identically the situation in Vietnam from the end of the Indo-China war in 54 until the influx of large American units in 64. The VC operated with foreign support, attacking civilian targets, conducting military operations, conscripting troops from local villages and demanding taxes. When they were rendered ineffective

due to US counterinsurgency operations, the North Vietnamese main force units had to take up the fight.

The Taliban were soundly defeated in Afghanistan in 2001-2002 by Special Forces using local fighters and the same techniques.

 

But then we invaded Iraq..........

 

Though your points about Vietnam are sound ,I disagree with its relationship to the war we are experiencing now . Unlike the Taliban and Al-Qaeda that fuels their hatred through religion, the VC were not bent on killing western civilizations outside of their border area to eliminate other religions and lifestyles on a world wide scale. It is clearly a different war and if we think different we will become complacent and the plots of the enemy will come to fruition. Another difference, this enemy is bent on destroying, not simply defeating, Israel specifically. The Taliban today have NOT been defeated, just militarily 'thumped'. They went away to neighboring Pakistan and maybe Iran until we slowed the assault. Unklike Vietnam and Indo-China we were attacked directly on our own soil.

 

As far as Iraq...if we did nothing I have been told by military minds that Saddam would have continued to strategize in supporting the terrorist roles beyond Israel to the USA. Some say that was already happening. Saddam continued to violate international laws and that in itself portrayed the USA and its allies as weak, unable to enforce it's mandates. That in turn fueled Al Queada and the like to be more bold in it's attacks against the west like embassy bombings, both World Trade Center attacks, the attack on the USS Cole, various terriorists attacks in asia and the middle east. The enemy tried to use our own laws to work against us - especially when these attacks were viewed as a 'criminal' offense rather than an act of war.

 

GG ~

[Utah Bob #35998]

Though your points about Vietnam are sound ,I disagree with its relationship to the war we are experiencing now . Unlike the Taliban and Al-Qaeda that fuels their hatred through religion, the VC were not bent on killing western civilizations outside of their border area to eliminate other religions and lifestyles on a world wide scale. It is clearly a different war and if we think different we will become complacent and the plots of the enemy will come to fruition. Another difference, this enemy is bent on destroying, not simply defeating, Israel specifically. The Taliban today have NOT been defeated, just militarily 'thumped'. They went away to neighboring Pakistan and maybe Iran until we slowed the assault. Unklike Vietnam and Indo-China we were attacked directly on our own soil.

 

As far as Iraq...if we did nothing I have been told by military minds that Saddam would have continued to strategize in supporting the terrorist roles beyond Israel to the USA. Some say that was already happening. Saddam continued to violate international laws and that in itself portrayed the USA and its allies as weak, unable to enforce it's mandates. That in turn fueled Al Queada and the like to be more bold in it's attacks against the west like embassy bombings, both World Trade Center attacks, the attack on the USS Cole, various terriorists attacks in asia and the middle east. The enemy tried to use our own laws to work against us - especially when these attacks were viewed as a 'criminal' offense rather than an act of war.

 

GG ~

 

I maintain that the Taliban were militarily defeated. That does not mean they were wiped out to the last man. It never does. Their combat effectiveness was destroyed. Lack of focus on our governments part led to their resurgence. The communists were bent on defeating and dominating all world governments. Religious or political fanatacism yields the same results. We were not attacked by the Taliban but by Al Qaeda.

I also maintain that Saddam was never a big enough problem for us to launch the invasion. It was a strategic error and severe case of mission creep that we've been paying for since '03.

 

 

But perhaps Kipling said it best.

 

"When you're wounded and lain on Afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up your remains

Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

And go to your Gawd like a soldier."

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I maintain that the Taliban were militarily defeated. That does not mean they were wiped out to the last man. It never does. Their combat effectiveness was destroyed. Lack of focus on our governments part led to their resurgence. The communists were bent on defeating and dominating all world governments. Religious or political fanatacism yields the same results. We were not attacked by the Taliban but by Al Qaeda.

I also maintain that Saddam was never a big enough problem for us to launch the invasion. It was a strategic error and severe case of mission creep that we've been paying for since '03.

 

 

But perhaps Kipling said it best.

 

"When you're wounded and lain on Afghanistan's plains

And the women come out to cut up your remains

Just roll to your rifle and blow out your brains

And go to your Gawd like a soldier."

 

Japan, Germany, Vietnam (North) were not defeated to the 'last man' either, but we waged a war as such that their governments (and people in general) were forced not to pursue world wide destruction of their enemies. Yet, through all that destruction from us and our allies (and them) Vietnam, Germany, Japan are more of an ally than not.

 

Saddam was a threat and would have continued to put in place the mechanism to carry out attacks against the US and it's allies.

 

 

...I am by all means no fan of war, but realize it's necessity to keeping America and its allies free from the harm (destruction) the enemy wishes to place on us

 

 

GG ~

[Presidio]

Boys. Settle.

 

 

I'll just be glad to get my Neice and Nephew home again in one piece. Cause I'm gonna be huggin' 'em both so hard and long that they'll have a hard time breathing fer a spell.

 

And for the rest of our brave young men and women.....welcome back and job well done.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Boys. Settle.

 

 

I'll just be glad to get my Neice and Nephew home again in one piece. Cause I'm gonna be huggin' 'em both so hard and long that they'll have a hard time breathing fer a spell.

 

And for the rest of our brave young men and women.....welcome back and job well done.

 

A BIG 'thanks' and highest respects to them ~

 

GG ~