Beauregard Quitman Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I attended EOT for the first time this year, shooting Wild Bunch as my main match. It was also my first time to go to Founder’s Ranch. Founder’s Ranch is a very nice facility and SASS members should be rightfully proud of having such a quality place to go shoot, socialize and have fun. The staff is, to a person, friendly and helpful and seemed honestly concerned about making my experience a pleasant one. All of the shooters I met, either serious competitors or the average shooters (or below average such as myself) were friendly, courteous and helpful. A person could not ask for a better place to shoot or a better group of people to shoot with. The WB stages were well written and challenging. I could have done without the wind, however. I do have some not so positive things to say about the event, mostly having to do with value for the cost of attendance. As I shot only Wild Bunch I spent the amount of money as someone shooting CAS for his or her main match. In and of itself that is fine but as a solely Wild Bunch shooter and someone who didn’t stay past Wild Bunch (I have no interest in CAS, also I was under time constraints and had to get back home) I did not receive the benefits as a CAS shooter. For example during the Wild Bunch match there is none of the cowboy entertainment that is available during the CAS matches. If my wife had come with me (she does not shoot) she would have been at loose ends and I would have enjoyed see the shows also. Many vendors (one in particular that I was looking forward to seeing) were not there during WB. Now, I understand the economics of the situation. WB only had about 100 shooters and having the entertainment perform during WB would simply be too expensive. And why should certain large vendors show early for no good reason? But the thing is I paid for these services just as CAS shooters paid for them and THEY received them and I did not. I did not receive as much value for my money as they did. Even events that were nominally for WB did not take place during the WB match. For example the WB RO1 class is being held on Tuesday, a day after the WB match. The opportunity to shoot Para Ordinance’s WB 1911 was only available after the WB match. Tell me, how would a CAS shooter feel if on Sunday, during the first day of the WB match, there was a very small window of opportunity to put in for a drawing for a SA revolver? They probably wouldn’t understand the timing of it and rightfully so. Now, I’m not saying that CAS shooters should receive less value for their money. I am saying that given the current state of affairs with WB (not enough shooters to support the benefits that CAS shooters enjoy) that the cost of WB as main match be reduced dramatically. Or if not that some value needs to be added DURING the WB match to make up for what is not there now. As nice as the facility is and as good as the staff is, to me the cost of attending a WB match at Founder’s Ranch is simply too high for the value received and I’m sorry to say that I won’t go back as things stand. Beau PS, I really hope that folks take this post for what it is meant to be... a fair critique of EOT WB by someone who shoots only WB and not as some big rant against SASS or CAS or anything else. I enjoyed my experience at Founder's Ranch and would truly like to find enough reason to go back and bring my wife with me. BQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 Until there are sufficient numbers of WB only shooters attending, I doubt you'll ever see the changes that you look for. As to any specific issues I suggest you take them up with the match director. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirty Chris Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 While I understand your points and agree that you should be able to pay a reduced fee to shoot WB only, keep in mind that it's still just pretty much a side match of CAS. I imagine most of the WB shooters will be there the whole week and shoot the CAS match also, so having the same entertainment for both would be overkill. Like Dave says, unless there are enough WB only shooters asking for the same changes, it'll probably keep being treated as a side match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 I agree that it's likely the WB match was conceived and exectued as an "adjuct to" the CAS match, and the powers that be expected most WB shooters will also shoot CAS..... I don't know how they'd change that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted June 21, 2011 Share Posted June 21, 2011 As the others pointed out. Don't know what you expect. EOT is about the Cowboy shooter. WB is just a add on for those that want it. 100 shooters in WB. 99 will stay for the rest of EOT, and shoot the reg cowboy main match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 I'm with Beau on this one. I toyed with the idea of shooting the WB only match at EOT (having no desire to shoot the CAS main match). There were several reasons I did not. One of the main ones was the exorbitant price. A person that only wanted to shoot the WB match and not shoot the CAS match too should not have had to pay that high a price. If things stay as they are structured, I don't see me attending EOT except as a conventioneer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stump Water Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 First I've heard of someone joining SASS just to shoot WB matches. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Entry price has gone down!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blastmaster Posted June 22, 2011 Share Posted June 22, 2011 Thanks for the report. I had to read your post a couple times before I broke out the keyboard and wrote what I wrote rather than bringing out the flame thrower. Good to know that there are no extras when you attend a WB match at Founders Ranch. What you see (just the WB match) is what you get. Then it is up to the WB shooter to determine if the price is worth the prize. Speaking as a CB shooter, the price of attending EOT isn't worth the prize, even when you throw in all the extras the OP seemed to be wanting and expecting. That is just me speaking. YMMV. Blastmaster PS.... I know the EOT WB warm up match conflicted with the Revenge of Montezuma annual shoot and attendance was down at the Revenge because of it. I hope the people that opted to go to the EOT WB warm up match had as much fun as I had at the Revenge...... just saying.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Been shooting CAS for 16 years now. Still love and enjoy it, but will admit to becoming just a bit jaded. WBAS on the other hand is new and exciting. Can shoot traditional with one hand whereas arthritis long ago forced me to use both hands on revolvers. Makes me feel young again, as someone else stated on the WBAS forum. I know there are a few soreheads here that don't appreciate and mebbeso even hate WBAS but I just love it. Main problem is lack of matches around here. We only shoot it on 5th Saturdays and those are too few and way too far between. If at all possible I will shoot WBAS at EOT next year and hopefully stick around for the CAS World Championships but as a spectator only. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rippin kid Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Lets look at it from a different angle (All amounts are made up) WB Match Say the Ranch costs $1000 per day to run/own (mortgage insurance taxes) WB match is 2 days so its cost $2000 to hold the match 100 WB shooters all $20 each to be the match or $2000 total Value = 100% CAS Match same 2 days of Ranch expenses $2000 500 CAS shooters @$20 or $10,000 you now an extra $8000 to spend to make the value the same as the WB shooter. I'd say you got your moneys worth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Houston # 35508 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Wild Bunch is a Side Match!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mockingbird, SASS #22893 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Interesting critique, really well written and thoughtful, thanks for sharing. I am not surprised that there are WB only shooters emerging and I can see why the value of a big match with attendant price tag may be lacking. At least now you know and, hopefully, can help others make informed decisions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lone Dog, SASS #20401 Posted June 23, 2011 Share Posted June 23, 2011 Wild Bunch is a Side Match!!! Uhh, NO!! It can be a side match addition to a regular CAS match OR nowadays it is rapidly developing into a stand alone sport of its own. The World Championship of WBAS at FR is NOT just a side match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Hi Beau, If you want your thoughts known where it counts, send them to one of the Wild Bunch (SASS board of directors). Here is a link to the Contact page. However, without more folks shooting WB only, it is unlikely that the changes you would like will be economically feasible. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickamauga Charlie, SASS #47963 Posted June 24, 2011 Share Posted June 24, 2011 Lets look at it from a different angle (All amounts are made up) WB Match Say the Ranch costs $1000 per day to run/own (mortgage insurance taxes) WB match is 2 days so its cost $2000 to hold the match 100 WB shooters all $20 each to be the match or $2000 total Value = 100% CAS Match same 2 days of Ranch expenses $2000 500 CAS shooters @$20 or $10,000 you now an extra $8000 to spend to make the value the same as the WB shooter. I'd say you got your moneys worth since all amounts are made up, whats your point and how do you come to the conclusion that he got his moneys worth???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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