Cowboys shoot onlookers at event

[ethan callahan]

From the Rapid City Journal www.rapidcityjournal.com

 

Authorities are still trying to determine who is responsible for shooting and injuring three tourists Friday night at a staged shootout in downtown Hill City, the lead investigator said Monday.

 

Lt. Marty Graves of the Pennington County Sheriff's Office said it still is unclear what went wrong at the event, or even if the re-enactors' guns were involved in the incident that will likely bring an end to a regular tourist event in the town 25 miles southwest of Rapid City.

 

"At this point in time, we don't know what happened out there in Hill City," Graves said Monday. "We don't know if it's a criminal investigation. What we do know is that those victims were hit with some type of projectile. We haven't been able to determine what type of projectiles those are at this time."

 

Graves said the re-enactors' firearms have been collected as evidence and will be sent to a forensic laboratory to determine if rounds had been fired through them or determine if there was some type of malfunction.

 

Sheriff's officials received assistance from the South Dakota Highway Patrol in mapping the scene and are working on reconstructing the events, Graves said.

 

John Ellis, a victim of the shooting, said Sunday that a surgeon removed bone and lead fragments from his elbow Friday night. Graves, however, said investigators have not verified that lead fragments were found during that operation.

 

"We've been evaluating the evidence we've got," Graves said. "There's a lot of speculation and a lot of rumor out there, but we base our conclusions on facts, not fiction based on what people assume happened."

 

Dakota Wild Bunch re-enactors performed in the town four times a week during the summer season for crowds that drew as many as 160 people. The president of the Hill City Chamber of Commerce has indicated the shootouts will not continue, and Saturday's shootout was canceled.

 

Graves said although investigators haven't ruled out the possibility that someone other than the re-enactors could have been involved, there is "nothing to indicate there was a third person outside of this."

 

In addition to the physical evidence, investigators have been analyzing video footage of the shootout recorded by other tourists. Graves said the investigation could take some time.

 

"This absolutely is a top priority," he said. "We're as concerned as everyone else in this, and it's my understanding that these events have been suspended ... but for me to make a conclusion 48 hours into this would be a miscalculation on my part."

 

Graves said the incident has received international attention and that his office has been flooded with media inquiries.

 

Preliminary questions about liability in the incident are contingent on the sheriff's investigation, Hill City Administrator Brett McMacken said.

 

The city has a written agreement with the Hill City Area Chamber of Commerce, which works with the Dakota Wild Bunch Reinactors to put on the mock battles to raise money for charity. Details of the agreement were not made available Monday.

 

"The chamber has said the Wild West shootout won't occur until everything's resolved, and then it'll be reassessed," McMacken said. "I'm sure the city will have its own opinion, but we need to get the report from the sheriff's office."

 

Dickie Stanley, national safety officer for the Reenactors Guild of America, based in Texas, said the incident -- regardless of how it happened -- "can have a negative effect on anybody who is involved in historical re-enactments."

 

"Although some folks will say we are playing with guns, for some of us we, feel that we use guns to teach history, and it is simply one of the tools of the trade," Stanley wrote in an email. "Not taking this seriously is what creates dangerous situations such as this, and usually, it is human error or a relaxed environment that lets things like this happen."

 

Stanley said the guild regularly reviews safety precautions and takes steps to that assure information is available to all interested parties, including producing safety videos that are posted online.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

When I worked a long, icy Sunday helping a group make a student film that several CAS shooters worked as "extras", I was tasked with firearms safety as well as shooting coach for one young actor. Two of the actors were to have a shoot-out involving blanks. Several other guns were carried as props.

 

Lotta the guys wanted to have ammo in their belts, and were disappointed when the word went out to each one of them "NO LIVE AMMO ON THE SET." They all had to carry any ammo to their cars and each was asked and each gun check for clear before we commenced. Some might have thought it oo strict, as only two actors guns were to be used at all, but ya know, if ya ain't got any live ammo on the set, ya can't have a problem.

 

IMHO this group does these shootouts a lot, and somebody got lax in their practices, which should have involved NO LIVE AMMO and each gun and each shooter's blanks checked by a safety officer at the staging area before they commenced to act. If they woulda loaded em in the presence of a safety officer, and no other "jewelry" ammo was allowed to be present, we'd be reading another "you make the call" thread.....

 

And our SASS mounted outfits take a hit for requiring use of "issued" blanks. A GOOD PRACTICE, combined with out "layers of safety" that drive some folks to distraction. Check em twice, shoot em once......

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

This has been posted a couple times. Its just hoped that folks don't get paranoia fever in thinking this will hurt the reputation of SASS or the shooting community. Just because it's called an 'old west shootout' doesn't mean it has any relation to our legitimate shooting sport. Reenactments are not shooting sports!

 

GG

[Shooting Bull]

IMHO this group does these shootouts a lot, and somebody got lax in their practices, which should have involved NO LIVE AMMO and each gun and each shooter's blanks checked by a safety officer at the staging area before they commenced to act. If they woulda loaded em in the presence of a safety officer, and no other "jewelry" ammo was allowed to be present, we'd be reading another "you make the call" thread.....

 

 

 

I'm REALLY not looking to start an argument here because your words are essentially correct but, it's entirely possible they DID use blanks. Blanks have hurt and even killed people.

 

What bothers me about this particular incident is that they had absolutely no business pointing their guns at spectators; blanks or not. What's that rule we like to cite? "Never point a gun at something you don't wish to destroy."

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Maybe so. Yes, when staging a shootout, the players aim slightly to the side fo their "targets". Those instances with serious injuries involving blanks are almost always at contact or near contact distances. If even a modest interval of say 15 or 20 feet is maintained, blanks are essentially harmless, excepting the potential for a powder grain in an eye... Three folks needing hospital care says either bullets or some other solid projectile was in the cases.

[Badlands Bob #61228]

I'm speculating here. If'n I were to set about making homemade blanks and didn't know better, I'd probably seal the mouth of the cartridge with a wax plug. At close range, these could cause an injury. I suspect, but don't know, that someone got creative and make their own blanks that ended up throwing a projectile causing the injury.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I'm speculating here. If'n I were to set about making homemade blanks and didn't know better, I'd probably seal the mouth of the cartridge with a wax plug. At close range, these could cause an injury. I suspect, but don't know, that someone got creative and make their own blanks that ended up throwing a projectile causing the injury.

My thought as well, since no BULLETS have been recovered.

There was some kind of projectile, and yes, wax on top of a stiff powder charge would severely wound somebody.

[Bart Solo]

I'm speculating here. If'n I were to set about making homemade blanks and didn't know better, I'd probably seal the mouth of the cartridge with a wax plug. At close range, these could cause an injury. I suspect, but don't know, that someone got creative and make their own blanks that ended up throwing a projectile causing the injury.

 

 

The problem is we are all speculating here. The only thing I know for sure is that this involved "reenactors," with the operative word being "actors." We don't know how or if anybody was actually shot. We know there were injuries, but that is about it. I am willing to wait for the LEO report.

[Harvey Mushman]

The problem is we are all speculating here. The only thing I know for sure is that this involved "reenactors," with the operative word being "actors." We don't know how or if anybody was actually shot. We know there were injuries, but that is about it. I am willing to wait for the LEO report.

 

 

Exactly correct, Bart. We, of all folks, should not be jumping to conclusions - just feeds the anti's. "Benefit of the doubt" until the facts are in!

I hope we get the real facts (not reactionary media spin) as this evolves?

 

Harvey

[Boulder Canyon Bob# 32052L]

Well it is "Tourist Season" why can't we shoot them?

[Subdeacon Joe]

Well it is "Tourist Season" why can't we shoot them?

 

Protected migratory species.

[Shooting Bull]

Protected migratory species.

 

Couldn't we just thin the herd a little?

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Protected migratory species.

 

I thought those were illegal immigrants.....

 

GG ~

[S. Quentin Quale, Esq. SASS 9953]

Well it is "Tourist Season" why can't we shoot them?

 

Because during Tourist Season you gently shear them of their "chump change." When done correctly there is no injury to the Tourist and they'll come back again next year and you can do it again.

 

A few years back at a National Cavalry Competition two of our members had a "shootout" over an alleged insult to one's spouse (something about her "bustle" being too big ). It was Single Action Army vs. Beretta 92. The Indian War Era officer was able to empty his weapon, reload, and do it again before the Desert Storm Vet could clear the jam in his weapon (after the second round). Before the action our Armorer had inspected both weapons and the blanks to be used. Neither was carrying live ammo. They were not permitted to come within 25 feet of each other.

 

The blanks used in Mounted Shooting and at the NCC are "crimped" and no filler or other material is permitted. The event always supplies the blanks and live ammo is not allowed outside of one's trailer or personal vehicle.

 

Being familiar with one's weapon is essential to safety. The shooter must awlays ensure that familiarity does not breed contempt.

 

SQQ

[Captain Lee Bishop]

I heard about this from a pal of mine today, had no idea it'd happened.

I assume the shot didn't count as a hit because the spectator didn't go "ding" when he was hit? How'd the spotters and the RO call it?

Seriously, if there were live rounds and not blanks, that inexcuseable but not surprising. I've seen that almost happen more than once over the years. I've been tagged with the tip of a crimped blank once, ruined a good shirt but I didn't even need stitches. Could be that. Let's hope it was!

[Henry T Harrison]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/06/27/live-bullets-fired-at-wild-west-show_n_885038.html?icid=main%7Chtmlws-main-w%7Cdl2%7Csec3_lnk1%7C217168

 

According to the latest news reports investigators have found three lead bullets as well as four spent casings and two live rounds. The bullets were traced to the gun of one of the reinactors.

I hope that the club has damn good insurance and the joker who thought it would be a good idea to use real bullets gets to spend a lot of time in the iron hotel thinking about his stupidity

[Badlands Bob #61228]

Thanks for the update. At least they traced it to the who. Now they just have to figure out why and how.

 

Probably has something to do with being a moron, but then I'm speculating again.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

The guy's not a moron. He's just a HUMAN. EVERY one of us has "thought" we did something when we didn't. In this instance the guy THOUGHT he'd cleared his gun at some time previous to the event. What this does highlight is the absolute need to have "layers of safety" and to NEVER let em slip.

 

We in SASS are blessed with a very well thought out safety protocol that works when we use it. NEVER load or unload unless in the presence of a safety officer. if one is not present, get yer buddy to watch you, and NOT while he's also loading or unloading, but simply to BE a second set of eyes. NEVER leave ANY range before checking yer guns for clear, and never holster em up upon arrival at a shoot without checking em again. I HAVE attended the funeral of a thirteen year old victim of an AD(ND if you must place blame). It'll screw up yer whole month.....

 

NONE of us is immune to human frailty. What this sad sack did could happen to any of us. Keep an eye on yer pards, and MAKE THEM keep an eye on you. It's a lot better'n letting human frailty bite ya in the backside.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

Post #3

 

 

GG ~