Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Stage calls for shotgun, pistol, rifle, pistol. Shooter shoots shotgun, picks up and levers rifle before TO can stop him, fires 1 rifle round hitting 1st rifle target, with action still closed, hammer down on spent round , re-stages rifle in original starting position, draws and shoots 1st pistol (no misses), holsters pistol, retrieves rifle and completes rifle sequence (no misses), re-stages rifle and completes course of fire with 2nd pistol (no misses). I know the shooter gets a Procedural for shooting the rifle out of order, and I know that since he had already cocked it and received a "P" the best thing to do would have been to complete the rifle string before re-staging it. But under the circumstances, What's The Call? Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Larn, SASS # 9072 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Just a P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Stage calls for shotgun, pistol, rifle, pistol. Shooter shoots shotgun, picks up and levers rifle before TO can stop him, fires 1 rifle round hitting 1st rifle target, with action still closed, hammer down on spent round , re-stages rifle in original starting position, draws and shoots 1st pistol (no misses), holsters pistol, retrieves rifle and completes rifle sequence (no misses), re-stages rifle and completes course of fire with 2nd pistol (no misses). I know the shooter gets a Procedural for shooting the rifle out of order, and I know that since he had already cocked it and received a "P" the best thing to do would have been to complete the rifle string before re-staging it. But under the circumstances, What's The Call? Thanks Randy From the RO1 manual, pg 17: Rifle Safe to leave the shooters hands. Empty, action open Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed (restaged for further use) No further call than the "P". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 From the RO1 manual, pg 17:• Rifle Safe to leave the shooters hands. • Empty, action open • Hammer fully down on an empty chamber or spent round, action closed (restaged for further use) No further call than the "P". Yep, just a P Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Hey Randy, So far we all agree. Wow! You think this will continue? Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew Duncan Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 "P" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 Just a P. Like others said - yup GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Red OToole, #48939 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 No further call beyond the "P". The shooter could have either finished the rifle string or did just what he did. Either way is safe and within the rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hey Randy, So far we all agree. Wow! You think this will continue? Regards, Allie Mo Allie, I'm amazed there is so much agreement. I'm hoping PaleWolf will jump in and agree as well, several of us had a big discussion about this yesterday. Thanks to you and everyone else who replied. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 You been quoted chapter and verse why you need PWB to chime in? It is a P will always be a P so what more is there to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 You been quoted chapter and verse why you need PWB to chime in? It is a P will always be a P so what more is there to it. Blackey, as I stated in the original post I know it is a "P" and I don't expect that to change. The question in the discussion with others at the range concerned additional penalties (which by the way I don't believe there are). Thanks Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Randy, I have it by a good source, PWB hisownself , that if there is agreement (not his exact words), he doesn't feel a need to jump in. Here you've got concensus and the rule. Of course, I've been wrong before. Regards, Allie Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Move along...move along.....situation contained....nothing to see here. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffee Pot SASS#55659 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Does it matter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Randy, I have it by a good source, PWB hisownself , that if there is agreement (not his exact words), he doesn't feel a need to jump in. Here you've got concensus and the rule. Of course, I've been wrong before. Regards, Allie Mo Allie, and once again to everyone who replied thanks. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Griff Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Move along...move along.....situation contained....nothing to see here.GG ~ Aha... must be one of those Jedi Gunfighter sayings... I think I've heard that before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Move along...move along.....situation contained....nothing to see here. GG ~ Now thats funny...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Move along...move along.....situation contained....nothing to see here. GG ~ Nice comeback GG .. I agree.. "P" only and move on... Rance Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Partner Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Alternative? Fire the rifle round in a safe location down range. Restage the rifle. When rifle is retrieved at the correct time, load one round and shoot rifle string? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Alternative? Fire the rifle round in a safe location down range. Restage the rifle. When rifle is retrieved at the correct time, load one round and shoot rifle string? Not a wise alternative, you still get a P for shooting the rifle out of order, and a Miss for the round you shot in the dirt. You cannot load a round to make up for a shot fired, only one that has been ejected or is defective, "as in bad primer no bang" Good Luck RO I page 16 9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss. Unfired ejected rifle rounds may be replaced. Jefro Relax-Enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Alternative? Fire the rifle round in a safe location down range. Restage the rifle. When rifle is retrieved at the correct time, load one round and shoot rifle string? YES...that is an option. Not a wise alternative, you still get a P for shooting the rifle out of order, and a Miss for the round you shot in the dirt. You cannot load a round to make up for a shot fired, only one that has been ejected or is defective, "as in bad primer no bang" Good Luck RO I page 16 9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss. Unfired ejected rifle rounds may be replaced. The middle section of that rule is relevant in this situation. Shooter MAY reload to negate the miss in that scenario (same as with a revolver) (revolver thread- see post #10) 9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty (the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedure and miss). This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jefro, SASS#69420 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 YES...that is an option. The middle section of that rule is relevant in this situation. Shooter MAY reload to negate the miss in that scenario (same as with a revolver) (revolver thread- see post #10) Roger that, I thought in the OP the target was avaible therefore this section would not apply. Thanks 9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty (the dreaded Double Jeopardy of a procedure and miss). This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss. From post #10 of the Pistol Thread If the shooter MISSES a pistol target with the mandatory shot (either by choice or for any other reason) s/he has the option to replace that round & negate the miss (even if pistol targets were available). There is no advantage to missing & having to replace the round. Jefro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 However, for style point, and to avoid the P, if the shooter realized that he had cocked the rifle at the wrong time, the shooter could have opened the action, held the rifle safely in one hand and fired the first pistol duelist style, re holstered, put the rifle back to his shoulder, fired off the rounds in the rifle, reloaded the ejected one and kept on going. Before you chime in about two loaded guns, the rule is two loaded Revolvers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colt McCloud, SASS #65003L Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hello Randy!! You already knew the answer on this and got some good clarification. Whatever you do though don't ask anything about a "sweep" . I won't make the Tennessee State match but will be down there for the annual Gunfight in Dixie! Might see you and the rest of the boys then! Colt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rance - SASS # 54090 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 You already knew the answer on this and got some good clarification. Whatever you do though don't ask anything about a "sweep" <snip> Colt Sweep Who said Sweep Oh It was Colt ... wanting to learn more about a sweep Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 However, for style point, and to avoid the P, if the shooter realized that he had cocked the rifle at the wrong time, the shooter could have opened the action, held the rifle safely in one hand and fired the first pistol duelist style, re holstered, put the rifle back to his shoulder, fired off the rounds in the rifle, reloaded the ejected one and kept on going. Before you chime in about two loaded guns, the rule is two loaded Revolvers. So as a double duelist myself, I could save transition time in the future on pistol then rifle strings by finishing with my first pistol, holstering it and picking up both my second pistol and rifle at the same time? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre #23212 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 So as a double duelist myself, I could save transition time in the future on pistol then rifle strings by finishing with my first pistol, holstering it and picking up both my second pistol and rifle at the same time? Yes!!...It's quite a time saving maneuver and the norm in these parts!! Although you must keep one foot off the ground...this is called the Transitional Counter-Balance Stance or the TCBS. If performed correctly the extra weight of the rifle will not cause you to gradually bend forward, missing targets and finally shooting yourself in the toe!! This will help you greatly Please post vidios BH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 Hello Randy!! You already knew the answer on this and got some good clarification. Whatever you do though don't ask anything about a "sweep" . I won't make the Tennessee State match but will be down there for the annual Gunfight in Dixie! Might see you and the rest of the boys then! Colt Colt, sorry you'll miss the TN. State, I'll miss the Gunfight in Dixie due to going to the US Open. I never mention sweeps, everytime I say sweep, my wife puts a broom in my hand. Maybe we can shoot together soon. Randy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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