What's The Call

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

Stage calls for Shotgun shot at position, 1 Rifle and Pistols shot at position 2. Shooter shoots shotgun, moves to position 2, draws and cocks pistol, realizes he has drawn the wrong gun. Shoots 1 round into the dirt, holsters pistol, shoots rifle correctly, draws 1st pistol, reloads 1 round and shoots pistol sequence correctly.

 

What's The Call?

 

This has probably been discussed but I couldn't find it when I did a search.

 

Thanks

Randy

[Pulp, SASS#28319]

I ain't no rules expert, but I'm thinking a P would have to be given, shooting firearms out of order.

 

Then I'd argue for a 10 second bonus for safely handling the mistake.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

8. Once a revolver is cocked, the round under the hammer must be expended in order for it to be returned to a safe condition. Once a rifle is cocked, either the round under the hammer must be expended or the action opened in order for the rifle to be returned to a safe condition.

Shotgun shells may be removed without penalty to return the firearm to a safe condition.

 

9. If a firearm is shot out of sequence or from the wrong position or location, the shooter will be awarded a single procedural penalty. In this situation, if the shooter elects or is forced to miss an appropriate target due to unsafe angles or target availability, a round may be reloaded to avoid a miss penalty (the dreaded “Double Jeopardy” of a procedure and miss). This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss.

Unfired ejected rifle rounds may be replaced.

SHB p.23 / RO1 p.16

[Bucky Buscadero, SASS #73085]

So if I understand correctly, he could have completed the entire pistol sequence once he made the initial mistake of drawing and cocking the pistol, instead of firing into the ground, then moved on to the rifle. Advantage being he would still have earned the same Procedural but would have saved a number of seconds not having to "discard" and then reload a pistol round. Correct or ??

 

Bucky

[Rye Miles #13621]

So if I understand correctly, he could have completed the entire pistol sequence once he made the initial mistake of drawing and cocking the pistol, instead of firing into the ground, then moved on to the rifle. Advantage being he would still have earned the same Procedural but would have saved a number of seconds not having to "discard" and then reload a pistol round. Correct or ??

 

Bucky

 

 

Exactly!

[Dubious Don #56333]

So if I understand correctly, he could have completed the entire pistol sequence once he made the initial mistake of drawing and cocking the pistol, instead of firing into the ground, then moved on to the rifle. Advantage being he would still have earned the same Procedural but would have saved a number of seconds not having to "discard" and then reload a pistol round. Correct or ??

 

Bucky

 

Correct.

[WOODFOX , sass#34179]

So if I understand correctly, he could have completed the entire pistol sequence once he made the initial mistake of drawing and cocking the pistol, instead of firing into the ground, then moved on to the rifle. Advantage being he would still have earned the same Procedural but would have saved a number of seconds not having to "discard" and then reload a pistol round. Correct or ??

 

Bucky

It depends where the pistol targets are located if they were safe to be shot from that position . Woodfox

[WOODFOX , sass#34179]

You guys type fast . Woodfox

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

So if I understand correctly, he could have completed the entire pistol sequence once he made the initial mistake of drawing and cocking the pistol, instead of firing into the ground, then moved on to the rifle. Advantage being he would still have earned the same Procedural but would have saved a number of seconds not having to "discard" and then reload a pistol round. Correct or ??

 

Bucky

 

 

Sounds like it. AAMOF since pistols and rifle were both to be shot from the same position, IF the targets were available, there's no reason to dump the round (ya get the P anyway), and I don't think his reload is legal (see PWB's post above), so he'd get a miss and a P since the reload isn't legal (can't count that round). If the targets were not available Pulled and cocked the pistol at position 1, say), what he did woulda been appropriate. But if ya have targets available, ya shoot em and collect yer P. Ya can't reload to make up the target after dumping one ya didn't NEED to dump.

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

So if I understand correctly, he could have completed the entire pistol sequence once he made the initial mistake of drawing and cocking the pistol, instead of firing into the ground, then moved on to the rifle. Advantage being he would still have earned the same Procedural but would have saved a number of seconds not having to "discard" and then reload a pistol round. Correct or ??

 

Bucky

 

Once the revolver has been cocked at the wrong position (not first gun on the stage) the shooter has the following options:

1) Decock the revolver = SDQ

2) What you suggested = P

3) What the shooter in the OP did = P

4) Same as #3, but hitting ANY pistol target would negate the need for a replacement/reload. = P

5) Same as #3, but without the reload (keep the miss) = P + Miss

 

If the shooter MISSES a pistol target with the mandatory shot (either by choice or for any other reason) s/he has the option to replace that round & negate the miss (even if pistol targets were available).

There is no advantage to missing & having to replace the round.

[Randy Saint Eagle, SASS # 64903]

Once the revolver has been cocked at the wrong position (not first gun on the stage) the shooter has the following options:

1) Decock the revolver = SDQ

2) What you suggested = P

3) What the shooter in the OP did = P

4) Same as #3, but hitting ANY pistol target would negate the need for a replacement/reload. = P

5) Same as #3, but without the reload (keep the miss) = P + Miss

 

If the shooter MISSES a pistol target with the mandatory shot (either by choice or for any other reason) s/he has the option to replace that round & negate the miss (even if pistol targets were available).

There is no advantage to missing & having to replace the round.

Thanks Palewolf and all who replied.

 

Randy

[Ace_of_Hearts]

Now that this thread has run its course.

If I may extend it with two What ifs.....

 

First - What if the shooter pulls the trigger and the revolver goes "click" (An extremely loud sound). Either he has had a failure to fire round or he indexed his revolver incorrectly at the loading table. He holsters the SAFE(?) revolver and proceeds. When returning to shoot the revolvers he shoots 10 revolver shots normally. (Along with two) more clicks to get back to the first round that didn't fire.

 

Second - Shooter is shooting a Schofield Revolver. Instead of pulling the trigger the shooter dumps the rounds from the revolver on the table/ground and then points the revolver down range and pulls the trigger. Upon returning to the correct revolver sequence he reloads the revolver from the body and shoots the sequence normally....

 

What say you?

[Joe LaFives #5481]

Based on PWB's reply - Lets suppose you wanted to save a clean match and on the last stage you shoot your pistols correctly and but have a miss. You could perform a reload to make up the miss?

 

 

 

[Grizzly Dave]

Now that this thread has run its course.

If I may extend it with two What ifs.....

 

First - What if the shooter pulls the trigger and the revolver goes "click" (An extremely loud sound). Either he has had a failure to fire round or he indexed his revolver incorrectly at the loading table. He holsters the SAFE(?) revolver and proceeds. When returning to shoot the revolvers he shoots 10 revolver shots normally. (Along with two) more clicks to get back to the first round that didn't fire.

 

Page 16 RO I

11. Safe conditions of firearms during a course of fire are as follows:

• Revolver(s)

Safe for movement in hand, while holstering, and safe to leave the shooter’s hand.

• Hammer fully down on an empty chamber,

• Hammer fully down on an expended round (may not be originally staged in this condition but may be restaged in this condition).

 

Page 25 RO I

STAGE DISQUALIFICATION

...

• Returning a revolver to leather with hammer not fully down on spent round or empty

chamber.

...

If it's before the first shot has gone downrange, you stop him, send him back to the loading table or unloading table I guess to clear the gun and try it again, RO Walking the revolver in question over there.

 

Middle of a stage you have no way of knowing if it's a bad primer, or on the empty chamber or what, so I guess you stop him, if it's on an empty he gets a reshoot lucky for him, if not he gets an SDQ.

 

Second - Shooter is shooting a Schofield Revolver. Instead of pulling the trigger the shooter dumps the rounds from the revolver on the table/ground and then points the revolver down range and pulls the trigger. Upon returning to the correct revolver sequence he reloads the revolver from the body and shoots the sequence normally....

 

No call. edit I stand corrected by PWBs post below, somehow I mis read it as the rounds were dumped inadvertently... and was only focusing on safe to return to leather

 

What say you?

 

 

 

I'm looking forward to seeing what everyone else has to say on this.

 

Grizz

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Now that this thread has run its course.

If I may extend it with two What ifs.....

 

First - What if the shooter pulls the trigger and the revolver goes "click" (An extremely loud sound). Either he has had a failure to fire round or he indexed his revolver incorrectly at the loading table. He holsters the SAFE(?) revolver and proceeds. When returning to shoot the revolvers he shoots 10 revolver shots normally. (Along with two) more clicks to get back to the first round that didn't fire.

As T/O, I would STOP the shooter at that point to determine whether there was an unfired round under the hammer.

If there is...shooter gets a RESTART (T/O impeding the shooter's progress)

If there is NOT...shooter gets a SDQ for coming to the line with a round under the hammer to start with.

 

Second - Shooter is shooting a Schofield Revolver. Instead of pulling the trigger the shooter dumps the rounds from the revolver on the table/ground and then points the revolver down range and pulls the trigger. Upon returning to the correct revolver sequence he reloads the revolver from the body and shoots the sequence normally....

That is NOT an option under the rules...

"...the round under the hammer must be expended in order for it to be returned to a safe condition."

BUT, IF a shooter did that, s/he'd still get the "P" for

• Failure to attempt to fire a firearm. (as a required procedure under the circumstances)

(plus the time to unload/reload).

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

Based on PWB's reply - Lets suppose you wanted to save a clean match and on the last stage you shoot your pistols correctly and but have a miss. You could perform a reload to make up the miss?

 

NO...

Second to last line of #9 precludes that.

 

"This does not mean a shooter may reload a rifle or revolver at any other time to make up a miss."

 

A shooter may not reload to make up a miss with a FIRED ROUND from a rifle or pistol

(unless the stage instructions allow it)...

e.g. "reload as necessary to make up any missed targets"

[Gawd Awful]

So what if the shooter is a gun fighter? The rules say a gunfight can't put pistols back in bolsters with the intent of shooting another sequence. So if a gun fighter pulls pistols at wrong time can he shoot 1 shot and then holster and re engage at right time?

[PaleWolf Brunelle, #2495L]

So what if the shooter is a gun fighter? The rules say a gunfight can't put pistols back in bolsters with the intent of shooting another sequence.

So if a gun fighter pulls pistols at wrong time can he shoot 1 shot and then holster and re engage at right time?

 

YES

 

• Both revolvers may be cocked at the same time, but must be shot one at a time to facilitate scoring. A Gunfighter may not holster revolvers with the intent to engage another revolver sequence. Once cocked, all rounds must be expended prior to holstering unless the revolvers were drawn at the wrong time or a revolver/ammunition malfunction has occurred.

GF rules: SHB p.14 / RO1 p.17 / RO2 p.9