Madd Mike #8595 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 For the most part, SASS shoots are put on by a bunch of dedicated volunteers. Yes they know what they are getting into for the most part, but not always Match directors, timer operators, stage writers, and counters volunteer These tittles listed above have a learning curve involved in how well each task is performed. With that being said, there is a constant turnover of volunteers, therefore there is a constant learning curve being dealt with. I think that every darn shooter out there should write stages, for the education, it will make them better posse members as a whole. Stage writing is a job most folks don’t want, so, folks that don’t write stages might want to re-evaluate their own perspective of always asking for perfect stage writing and editing. There will always be a tester in the posse that challenges the best of the best stage writers. I strive for perfect when I write em, and I feel confident that most stage writers do the same. For some of you shooters out there, that avoid volunteering, & mainly shoot and shoot the breeze, then ya might think twice about some of the things you dislike. If we are not careful, we will chase away what few good volunteers we have now. sassmaddmike@yahoo.com Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 To piggy back on MM's thoughts, also remember that just because something isn't done/written the way YOU would do it doesn't necessarliy make it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 For the most part, SASS shoots are put on by a bunch of dedicated volunteers. Yes they know what they are getting into for the most part, but not always Match directors, timer operators, stage writers, and counters volunteer These tittles listed above have a learning curve involved in how well each task is performed. With that being said, there is a constant turnover of volunteers, therefore there is a constant learning curve being dealt with. I think that every darn shooter out there should write stages, for the education, it will make them better posse members as a whole. Stage writing is a job most folks don’t want, so, folks that don’t write stages might want to re-evaluate their own perspective of always asking for perfect stage writing and editing. There will always be a tester in the posse that challenges the best of the best stage writers. I strive for perfect when I write em, and I feel confident that most stage writers do the same. For some of you shooters out there, that avoid volunteering, & mainly shoot and shoot the breeze, then ya might think twice about some of the things you dislike. If we are not careful, we will chase away what few good volunteers we have now. sassmaddmike@yahoo.com agreed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hacker, SASS #55963 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 I agree it would be good experience for us all to write and SEE our stages shot for real. Writing stages is not enough. While we have many heated/goofy/silly debates on various aspects of a stage battered about on the SASS Wire, Many if not most TOs know what calls to make and do the right thing. I would rather be involved in a debate here on the wire where we can push the edge of the rules in discussion than have that debate take place at the range. Yes I do ask questions that some might see as goofy but I have an agenda, To learn what the rules are, where the boundaries are and how the rules are interpreted. In particular which rules are not enforced all the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larsen E. Pettifogger, SASS #32933 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 My thoughts exactly. Rather than complain, volunteer. Then if you have a complaint all you have to do is look in the mirror. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Relax, enjoy, have fun - that's what it's all about. When your doin' that it's very easy to get in that volunteer mode - with anything. GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bad Hombre #23212 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 And always, and I mean Always set up the complaint department on set up day!!! You get a lot less complaints that way. BH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Possum Skinner, SASS#60697 Posted June 4, 2011 Share Posted June 4, 2011 Madd Mike, You are a learned man. For what it's worth, I don't strive to please all the wire-hangers. I just labor to please all the shooters who will be attending the match for which I am writing scenarios. If I fail to please them all, all of the time, it's NOT from a lack of effort, but rather from an effort to keep the scenarios interesting and fun for all. To get great at anything, you first have to be willing to fail. Possum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pit Bull Tex Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 The stages we shot today were the most fun stages that I have shot. Thanks Possum.AS long as Possum lets me shoot I be there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dang It Dan 13202 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 I think that every darn shooter out there should write stages, for the education, it will make them better posse members as a whole. For some of you shooters out there, that avoid volunteering, & mainly shoot and shoot the breeze, then ya might think twice about some of the things you dislike. sassmaddmike@yahoo.com MM, You want WHAT? Listen, you really gotta get your meds checked if you expect everyone, especially the ones who won't even man a loading table, to suddenly start designing and writing stages. Would it be nice, yes. Is it going to happen? - No. We will always have those who will DO NOTHING, nothing except criticize that is, and instead of letting them get to us, we need to give their "thoughts and opinions" the weight they deserve. Try this next time one of these folks feel like sharing their thoughts on the match, say "Well if you don't like the stages, why don't you come early next month and we will set up one or two of yours?". They will either shut up, or put up. Usually its the former. Respectfully, Dang It Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fairshake Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 This post is a good one with some good replies. It's no different than people who don't vote but complain at the outcome. No Dice!! We have some of our older members who stand back and BS while others pull double duties and that is wrong. If you are not part of the solution then you are part of the problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted June 5, 2011 Author Share Posted June 5, 2011 MM, You want WHAT? Listen, you really gotta get your meds checked if you expect everyone, especially the ones who won't even man a loading table, to suddenly start designing and writing stages. Would it be nice, yes. Is it going to happen? - No. We will always have those who will DO NOTHING, nothing except criticize that is, and instead of letting them get to us, we need to give their "thoughts and opinions" the weight they deserve. Try this next time one of these folks feel like sharing their thoughts on the match, say "Well if you don't like the stages, why don't you come early next month and we will set up one or two of yours?". They will either shut up, or put up. Usually its the former. Respectfully, Dang It yer right but I am just trying to get the shoot & then shoot the breeze types to think out side of narrowmindedness, a tadd bit I know my post wont change the world but maybe it will inspire just a few..... to do better..... crit-A-sizin volenteers and not doing better yer-ownself is ? after all is said and done its' volenteers that make their shooting opertunity happen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingers McGee Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 For the most part, SASS shoots are put on by a bunch of dedicated volunteers. Yes they know what they are getting into for the most part, but not always Match directors, timer operators, stage writers, and counters volunteer These tittles listed above have a learning curve involved in how well each task is performed. With that being said, there is a constant turnover of volunteers, therefore there is a constant learning curve being dealt with. I think that every darn shooter out there should write stages, for the education, it will make them better posse members as a whole. Stage writing is a job most folks don’t want, so, folks that don’t write stages might want to re-evaluate their own perspective of always asking for perfect stage writing and editing. There will always be a tester in the posse that challenges the best of the best stage writers. I strive for perfect when I write em, and I feel confident that most stage writers do the same. For some of you shooters out there, that avoid volunteering, & mainly shoot and shoot the breeze, then ya might think twice about some of the things you dislike. If we are not careful, we will chase away what few good volunteers we have now. sassmaddmike@yahoo.com AMEN!!! Fingers (Show Me MO smoke) McGee Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Utah Bob #35998 Posted June 5, 2011 Share Posted June 5, 2011 SASS is no different from many organizations. Car clubs, American Legion Posts, etc etc. People will have different level;s of involvement and commitment. A few dedicated ones will do most of the work. People feel if they pay dues it's their right to bitch about things. That's just the way it is I reckon. I don't think it'll change. Human nature. If your a volunteer you need to realize that going in. Sometimes it's a thankless job. It shouldn't be though. Volunteers need recognition, thanks and support from everybody. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted June 6, 2011 Author Share Posted June 6, 2011 SASS is no different from many organizations. Car clubs, American Legion Posts, etc etc. People will have different level;s of involvement and commitment. A few dedicated ones will do most of the work. People feel if they pay dues it's their right to bitch about things. That's just the way it is I reckon. I don't think it'll change. Human nature. If your a volunteer you need to realize that going in. Sometimes it's a thankless job. It shouldn't be though. Volunteers need recognition, thanks and support from everybody. yuP just want folks to think think bout maybe HELPING -IN- making SASS last Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Most possies I have been in have all been good workers ,,,,, Sometimes a reminder was needed by one or two not pulling their share .... We did have a "Bigshot" and his family that thought they were too "Good" to need to help-out ,,,,,,, leaving that for US common folk .... But they moved on .... They were hard to deal with ,,, Failing to show the pistol before holstering and failing to show clear at the un=load table ... I was New to SASS at the time and un-impressed and made them do both,when I was watching the tables .... He was FAST and lot's of folks were in awe of him ,,,,,, but I told him the rules applied to all !!! I also had the stones to call his misses and Not back-down when confronted by him, his behavior improved somewhat as he came to understand that I wasn't going to back-down or change my call because he was a "Bigshot" So if I ever Shoot with you,You can expect me to treat you fair and square ,,,,,, but don't expect me to favor you just because Ya have a Big Name .... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 Many ways to contribute. Some are good at one thing, not too good at others. The main thing is IF a stage is safe, no oddball targets spitting back at ya, and FUN, we've accomplished our goal. BUT folks will get spoiled when yer fortunate enough to have superb writers. That can be a bad thing for those who would venture to write a stage different than what folks are used to. A good pard had a flair for coming up with fun stages, but since they weren't the same style as those shot at the big matches, weren't "practice" for EOT, etc, some of the "traveling" shooters didn't like em. Guess what, he didn't bother to load the stage-writing software in his new computer when the old one bit the dust. Folks ought to try their hand, but they also oughta appreciate there are many ways to enjoy the game, many ways around the old 10-10-4, and as long as nobody gets shot and ya have fun, it's all good. You get what you encourage...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 I wrote a stage once that called for 18 rifle knock-downs,,,, 10 + shotgun ,,,, and a runforward with the pistols blazing at (Cardboard) baddies as they became vissible to your right and left at distances of 2-4 yards .... All targets must go down, or in the case of the 4 Cardboard Badies Must have at least 2 holes in each if there wasn't ten holes in the baddies shots not stricking the baddies were misses .... The shotgun targets were shot with 6 + rounds staged in the Strongbox ... The other 4 ten total shotgun targets were shot with remaining rounds either staged and carried to the next window or loaded from on your body .... After starting with 10 in rifle and loading 8 more from your belt/slide you had the option of loading more rifle rounds from your body to clear any remaining knock-downs or using your shotgun to take them down again loading with rounds you were carrying on your person..... So 18 rifle targets to knock-down and 10 Shotgun to put down and 4 baddies the need at least 2 holes on each ... Pistol targets did not allow for a reload .... Round count 18 + rifle ,,, Shotgun 10 + ,,, Pistol 10 rounds .... One Shooter complained about to much shooting .............. 10 on the possie wanted to reshoot it fer fun ...... Jabez Cowboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wallaby Jack, SASS #44062 Posted June 6, 2011 Share Posted June 6, 2011 ................ One Shooter complained about to much shooting .............. 10 on the possie wanted to reshoot it fer fun ...... Jabez Cowboy .......... seems that ya cain't please everyone ...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Good post Mike; I think that at the next montly we all need to personally thank the people that write the scenarios, set the targets, collect the registrations, prepare the snacks, mow the grass, empty the trash barrels, fill the water coolers, paint the targets, set up side matches, distribute spotter sticks, set the loading and unloading tables, assemble props, score the match, make up the certificates, stock the drinks, make up the possy sheets, and listen to the complaints, etc..... It's a lot of work and I've witnessed the folks at shoots who work their hearts out....and for what....just to hear that people had fun. Writin scenairos can be fun and it can become burdensome....setting targets with one or two people is hard work. We are lucky to have a permanent site where we can leave our targets staged. Our club in Florida has a time frame to set up and tear down and everyone pitches in.... VOLUNTEER, even if it's just for a short time or a simple task....you will be appreciated by the folks that DO IT ALL FOR YOU at every shoot. Just my two scents KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 I do my best to help out during a match..like spot, brass rat, or be the score keeper. But nobody in my area calls me to participate in other duties. I want to do more, but there seems to be a waiting list of volunteers. Guess that's a good thing. LOL.. GG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Winchester Jack, SASS #70195 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 SASS is no different from many organizations. Car clubs, American Legion Posts, etc etc. exactly, I have heard that 20 percent of the people do 90% of the work in volunteer organizations. I have seen this in 4wheel drive clubs and motorcycle clubs. Even at church. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el Gato Gordo - SASS #15162 Posted June 7, 2011 Share Posted June 7, 2011 Good points! Not everyone can attend set up days, however. There was a time that our club set up on Wednesdays, for the convenience of the then club officers. Wednesdays, however, are work days for most of us and a day off is a day not paid. When I became MD and moved set up to Fridays (my day off) set up attendance grew a little; it grew even more with published invitation on the website. But still, unless a person is retired or unemployed, Friday is still a work-day for most people. For those clubs that set up on Saturday and shoot Sunday, remember that some folks work, or worship or have other obligations on Saturdays. Having everyone attempt to write interesting stages that are SAFE, that don't back up Posses at any one or two stages, and don't take to suppertime to complete is a good idea. Go ahead, write'm. Then walk through them in your back yard at an average shooter's pace (be sure to count "one-Mississippi" between shots). Submit them to the Match Director, or not, for his or her consideration. It will be appreciated. Shucks, just coming up with good starting lines would be a help! The exercise, even if you don't submit them, will be eye-opening. Buena suerte, eGG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Go West Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 I don't bitch about the volunteers, just the do nothings. The people (fast shooters or not) that do nothing on a stage.......stage after stage. Sometimes I volunteer them for a job (which they ditch as soon as they can), but many times, they have a knack for fading into the background until it becomes time for them to shoot. At times, I just want to say to them to time themselves, spot and pick up their own brass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Subdeacon Joe Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 exactly, I have heard that 20 percent of the people do 90% of the work in volunteer organizations. I have seen this in 4wheel drive clubs and motorcycle clubs. Even at church. That is common no matter what organization you are in. Heck, it is even Biblical. Look at the Israelites - you have a very small percentage, the cohens or priests, who are the leaders, then you have a slightly larger percentage, the levites - hewers of water and drawers of wood, then the vast majority, Israel, who are the congregation and monetary support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 Good post Mike; I think that at the next montly we all need to personally thank the people that write the scenarios, set the targets, collect the registrations, prepare the snacks, mow the grass, empty the trash barrels, fill the water coolers, paint the targets, set up side matches, distribute spotter sticks, set the loading and unloading tables, assemble props, score the match, make up the certificates, stock the drinks, make up the possy sheets, and listen to the complaints, etc..... It's a lot of work and I've witnessed the folks at shoots who work their hearts out....and for what....just to hear that people had fun. Writin scenairos can be fun and it can become burdensome....setting targets with one or two people is hard work. We are lucky to have a permanent site where we can leave our targets staged. Our club in Florida has a time frame to set up and tear down and everyone pitches in.... VOLUNTEER, even if it's just for a short time or a simple task....you will be appreciated by the folks that DO IT ALL FOR YOU at every shoot. Just my two scents KK you nailed what I was tring to get across lotta work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted June 8, 2011 Author Share Posted June 8, 2011 exactly, I have heard that 20 percent of the people do 90% of the work in volunteer organizations. I have seen this in 4wheel drive clubs and motorcycle clubs. Even at church. here is the deal that I seem to not be getting accross your above quote is very correct however SASS used to be beyond and way better than that I think SASS is slipping down the slope of being like what is stated above this aint my first post like this I have even had folks respond (PM) if yer gunna volunteer, then git-over-it that is why I see things changing, and things always do it dont mean that the change was gud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Okie Sawbones, SASS #77381 Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 SASS is...... what people make of it. People can be a positive influence, or they can be a negative influence. Shame on you if you are the latter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 We really try to put on a great match at our home club. It bothers me when people don’t have a good time…..I realize you can’t please everyone but we are still doing our best to achieve that anyway. We make mistakes sometimes but we learn from them if we do. All that said I love to write stages……hanging steel…..not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Branch Louie Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 With some VERY experienced help, I put on a monthly match last month to sub for the regular match director. Pretty much, you spend most of your weekend by the time you set up the day before and then shoot. I have helped set up a match on a few occassions, and people who have never done these things have no idea the work involved. While we're on the subject, I want to give a HUGE thanks to all the folks who make the North Carolina State Match so great year after year. With 90 degree temps all week, these folks gave their all and put on a first class shoot..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 ... what people make of it. People can be a positive influence, or they can be a negative influence. Shame on you if you are the latter. Sometimes people just take things the wrong way and get huffy for no reason GG ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackey Cole Posted June 8, 2011 Share Posted June 8, 2011 Ditto Madd Mikes Post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted June 9, 2011 Share Posted June 9, 2011 TRY AN EXPERIMENT: Ask what you can do to help at the next shoot.... Volunteer to write stages for a monthly and/or other shoot.... You might find the Match Director would welcome it. Build or donate a prop, long gun stand, etc.....ask what they need. Volunteer, Volunteer, Volunteer Just a few thoughts KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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