Opinion: Plastic or fiber wads for BP shotshell?

[Wagon Box Willy]

Howdy pards,

 

I'm trying to gather up my shotshell reloading stuff for loading BP shells and I'm at the wad decision point.

 

I will be using these shotshells only for CAS. I'm going with a Driftwood Johnson load of 4.3cc ffg and 1-1/8oz of 7-1/2 shot.

 

Do I go with overshot card, 1/2" fiber wad, over shot card or do I go with a plastic wad which I understand the Claybuster 1138-12 (replaces WAA12R)?

 

I'm leaning towards the card/wad/card method but as compared to the modern plastic wads it seems way more time consuming.

 

Thoughts, comments?

 

Thanks

Willy

[Iron Pony]

Willy I've given up on wads in everything but longrange loads for the 45-70 so my vote is for the plastic wads. Never loaded a smokeless shotshell and didnt start loading bp shells until I went to the dark side. Started with card and fiber wads in STS hulls and switched over to the plastic wads for simplicity. Never used an over shot wad, just the card wad on top of the powder and the fiber wad, shot then crimp.

 

The fiber wads give you a nice confetti effect and Driftwood will back me up in saying fiber wads are more likely to set your local club on fire. Plastic wads actually clean up easier for me. Plug the bbls, fill with boiling water, let them get to the point they will scald an unprotected hand then pull the plugs and watch the residue come out, no problems.

 

Guess one concern is column height of the shells internals, with my load the red wad, powder and shot charges the combo is just right to get a factory looking crimp.

[Buckeye Pete, SASS # 29941]

Howdy pards,

 

I'm trying to gather up my shotshell reloading stuff for loading BP shells and I'm at the wad decision point.

 

I will be using these shotshells only for CAS. I'm going with a Driftwood Johnson load of 4.3cc ffg and 1-1/8oz of 7-1/2 shot.

 

Do I go with overshot card, 1/2" fiber wad, over shot card or do I go with a plastic wad which I understand the Claybuster 1138-12 (replaces WAA12R)?

 

I'm leaning towards the card/wad/card method but as compared to the modern plastic wads it seems way more time consuming.

 

Thoughts, comments?

 

Thanks

Willy

 

Willy,

 

I think part of the answer for you is how are you loading the shells as in what type of loader are you using. I use a MEC 650 and I only use the plastic wads such as the ones you mentioned and a similar load with Goex FFG. To me it is easier loading and I believe I get a good pattern with them. Clean up is not too bad, I just plug the barrels and spray lots of Windex or Simple Green, wait about 15 minutes and then push all the plastic snot out the muzzle with a paper towel or cleaning patch on the end of a rod.

 

At one of our last monthly matches, I engaged one shotgun target that was about 7 yards out, and my wad stuck almost dead center in the plate.

 

Good luck on your loading decision.

 

Buckeye Pete

[Carlsbad Kid, SASS #25682]

I've tried both methods, and have settled on the plastic wads. With the fiber (traditional) wads, I found that the pattern opened up so much that I couldn't take down the poppers at one of the local ranges. No problem with the Claybuster wads. I also use the Claybuster wads in my brass hulls, but over a 11 ga over-powder wad.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Plastic wads. Cheaper, faster to load, better patterns commonly unless you want to do a lot of tweaking. Cleanup ,as stated above, is pretty quick. Folks who "WORRY" about snake skins coming out their barrels during cleanup have not much to worry about. (Try a teenager.)

 

Good luck, GJ

 

BTW, most folks find that the load you cite is PLENTY and then some, for cowboy shooting. An ounce of lead and a pink claybuster wad with about 3.8 CC of black is enough for any knockdown I've seen.

[John Boy]

I'm leaning towards the card/wad/card method but as compared to the modern plastic wads it seems way more time consuming.

Willy, opinions will be both types of wads depending on available time primarily. I gave up loading plastics & paper hulls the 'traditional' way except for brass hulls that are loaded the 'traditional' way

Recommendation: Load a box both ways - shoot them and then determine which method you want to use

[J-BAR #18287]

plastic.

 

clean up with Ballistol and water sprayed into the barrels.

 

piece of cake.

[Branchwater Jack SASS #88854]

I've used fiber for a year now. To me, the pre-lubed fiber wads actually help keep the barrel clean. I don't have to do much to clean the shotgun at the end of the day.

 

My current column is powder, power/nitro card, lubed fiber wad, 2 power/nitro cards, shot, over shot card. That brings the shot to just the right spot when I do the crimp.

 

Hopefully I will start reloading smokeless shells for a new shooter (my wife) as I think the CAS bug has started to take a hold of her. Once she gets going, I will probably just switch to a plastic wad that I can reload for both of us and see what happens. I have my eye on a recipe that uses a pink Claybuster wad and 7/8 oz shot. The powder and shot used for that load is the same as my loads now. I have never met a knock down or flyer yet that I have had a problem with, and I guess I don't see a reason to change.

[Prairie Dawg, SASS #50329]

Don't forget that it also depends on the shotgun.

Shotguns like the TTN with its long forcing cones do not pattern well with fiber wads.

Plastic is much easier & can be cleaned up with Windex with vinegar or moose milk down the barrel.

Let it sit awhile & clean it out with a paper towel strip wrapped around a bore brush. Easy-Peasy

 

Fiber wads are more authentic but take way longer to load.

 

--Dawg

[Wagon Box Willy]

Don't forget that it also depends on the shotgun.

Shotguns like the TTN with its long forcing cones do not pattern well with fiber wads.

Plastic is much easier & can be cleaned up with Windex with vinegar or moose milk down the barrel.

Let it sit awhile & clean it out with a paper towel strip wrapped around a bore brush. Easy-Peasy

 

Fiber wads are more authentic but take way longer to load.

 

--Dawg

It is for a TTN I'm watin' on from Doc Fillem

 

Willy

[Edward R S Canby, SASS#59971]

Another vote for the plastic wads per previously mentioned reasons. Also, a melted, burning wad stuck to a shotgun target has style points.

[Presidio]

I use a combination of both (personal preference and lack of other things to do). Here's my method:

 

Powder - Over-powder card - 1/2" Fiber wad - plastic wad with base cut off (just the shot cup is used - shot - then finally overshot card and sealed with beeswax.

 

Systems works well in plastic hull, Alcan hull, and Magtech Hulls.

 

BTW - I sometimes throw in a measure of glitter or some such thing to make some folks go "ooooooh and aaaaahhh".

 

 

 

 

Have fun!

[Buffalo Dick, SASS #12880]

The ammunition industry switched to plastic wads years ago because they are easier to load and work better. The same is true for what we do, either bp or smokeless.

[Bull Skinner]

I switched back to fiber wads, almost the same Driftwood load you quoted.

 

I Don't like plastic snot and fiber wads shoot great in my original J.A.Stevens 235 and in my Chinese 87 with a screw in choke.

 

To each his own, I guess. But, that plastic residue still has to be cleaned out and the time saved not doing that can be applied to the slightly longer time loading fiber wads.

 

Ps. If the slightly higher cost of fiber wads are a factor, then how can you afford cowboy shooting to start with?

[Noz]

Don't forget that it also depends on the shotgun.

Shotguns like the TTN with its long forcing cones do not pattern well with fiber wads.

 

 

--Dawg

 

Yup

 

 

Old shotgun with short forcing cone=fiberwads.

Newer shotguns with long forcing cones=plastic.

[Jefro, SASS#69420]

Plastic, I like to keep things simple. Plus there are a couple of other very effective wads you can use with less powder. For 1 1/8oz loads I use the BPI short wad #072SSW, 3.7cc BP, and for local matches I use the Win Pink wad AA12SL, 7/8oz shot, and 3.1cc BP. Clean up is a snap, I pour a pitcher of hot water down the tubes, followed by a spray of Murphy's mix, push half a paper towel through, then spray and patch with Ballistol. So easy a caveman could do it Good Luck

BPT Wad #0722SSW

 

Jefro Relax-Enjoy

 

ps; from what I understand older shotgun steel does not do as well with plastic, however todays modern shotguns appear to be uneffected, and have a better pattern when using plastic. Good Luck

[Smuteye John SASS#24774]

Shoot what your gun likes best.

 

Older guns were made before plastic wads were in common use and tend to shoot better with fiber wads. New guns are designed to shoot plastic wads and usually pattern better with them. I tried both when I was doing load development for my 1901 and ended up finding that it liked fiber wads best.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy Boys

 

I see Willy is doing what he usually does, getting lots of data.

 

Just so you know, I told him my load because he asked. I also told him that most shooters prefer modern plastic wads for all the reasons given. Yes, it takes considerably longer to load separate wads than modern one piece wads, no question about that. It usually takes me a good hour to load three boxes on my Mec Jr. Maybe I could do four if I rushed. As a matter of fact, I suspect the easier clean up with separate wads does not even make a dent as far as a trade off is concerned over removing the plastic goop left behind by plastic wads. The only reason I can give for preferring to load separate wads, being totally honest here, is because I am used to it and just don't want to change. Works fine for me.

 

Now, let's talk about patterns for a moment. Yes, I did neglect to mention to Willy that separate wads may have a tendency to tip slightly when traversing the longer forcing cone of modern shotguns. Modern wads bridge this distance and there is no upsetting of the wad. I also neglected to mention to him that a modern plastic shotcup will protect the pellets on the outside of the column from rubbing against the barrel on their way to the muzzle. Separate wads will not, so there may be some amount of flattening of the pellets on the outside of the column, which probably opens up the pattern some.

 

But as far as tweaking the load to make it pattern just right.......fooey!

 

I didn't work up this load at all. It is simply the reflection of the largest dipper in the Lee dipper set and the charge bar that comes standard on all Mec Jrs; 1 1/8 ounces. Remember what I said earlier about not wanting to change?

 

One other thing about this load. Separate wads are not the same as modern plastic wads. They don't take up as much space. Even with this load, my hulls are barely full. If I was to cut back on either the powder charge or the shot charge, the hulls would be even less full than they are now, and I would have to add another wad inside to fill it up more. So again, I go with my lazy man's powder charge and my lazy man's shot charge.....why? Because I am too stubborn to change anything.

 

***

 

As far as knockdowns are concerned, every single time I point my old Stevens Hammer gun with its cylinder chokes at a knock down, they go down. (Except when I shoot from the hip, but that is another story) If I can knock down every thing in sight with this combination, including open chokes, dented pellets, and tilted wads, then anybody who has a more modern gun with tighter chokes should be able to do the same thing. As long they know where their shotgun actually patterns, and they take the time to aim.

 

No, these are not good Trap loads, I can barely hit anything with them on the Trap field, and I'm no slouch at Trap. But they are fine for all targets encountered in CAS, including poppers.

 

But if you don't want to spend the time stuffing wads in, I understand completely.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Thanks for chiming in DJ.

 

Driftwood's load is almost exactly the same as Doc Shapiro's load that he publishes in his book, and Doc recommends the separate wads. To tell you the truth I had fully expected to stick with the fiber wads until the comments about the TTN and longer forcing cones.

 

Being a newbie at this (I haven't shot a shotgun since I was a kid...which was a long time ago) I'm thinking it will be easier for me to get my feet wet in BP shotshells if I use the load that DJ recommended with the plastic red CB wad. If the kick turns out to be too much for me I'll see if I can locate some of those pink wads that GJ mentioned in his post and try that load. I don't necessarily want a light load, half the fun is the experience, but I don't want a sore shoulder either

 

Interestingly I called around to see if I could buy plastic wads locally and nobody has them (very limited selection) and the reason I was given is that with the cost of components people aren't reloading as much as they used to.

 

So anyway, in getting ready for all this I dusted off the Ebay MEC 600jr and found out that I was missing the primer spring and primer pad so I need to order those pieces. I will also order the CB red wads which should work with my intended load.

 

Thanks for all the good info. DJ did tell me that he was in the minority with his wad choice and this thread confirmed it but I think that I'll eventually pick up the components to do it the old way and see how I like it.

 

Thanks again,

 

Willy

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

I, like Presidio use a combination of fiber & plastic wads.

 

I use all brass 12 ga. shells. I load a 7/8 oz shot package with 45 gr's. of 2F. This takes the KD's down smartly.

 

My question is why use all that extra shot and powder ?

 

In this day of component price increase I prefer to use less and save more.

 

Also with the fiber wad between the powder & Nitro card and plastic wad & shot I keep cleaner & less fouled Barrels.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

My question is why use all that extra shot and powder ?

 

Thought I made that clear.

 

Separate wads are not the same as modern plastic wads. They don't take up as much space. Even with this load, my hulls are barely full. If I was to cut back on either the powder charge or the shot charge, the hulls would be even less full than they are now, and I would have to add another wad inside to fill it up more. So again, I go with my lazy man's powder charge and my lazy man's shot charge.....why? Because I am too stubborn to change anything.

 

Of course with brass hulls you can fill them up as much as you want. But with hulls that need to be crimped, you have to fill them all the way.

[Brasspounder]

I use card & fiber wads. Also use "range pickup" fired shells

due to there usually being an enless supply of same.

 

They always worked fine in my old Stevens 311 double.

 

The newer TTN double I got has 3 inch chambers and the "modern" long forcing cones.

 

I cut the crimp folds off the reclaimed empty shells and then roll crimp the reloads, and so

end up with a shortened shell...makes the wad column take quite a jump from the time it leaves

the shell in those long chambers until it gets past the forcing cone into the bore.

 

What I found happening was that the powder gases were blowing past the wad column and

actually melting the shot just ahead of the forcing cones enough to lead the barrels

at that point considerably. Got to be a PIA reaming the lead out all the time.

 

I started using paper shot cups made by winding a strip of paper around a dowel and

folding it over at the end, and putting that in the shells on top of the cushion wad

before putting in the shot charge.

 

This has helped reduce the leading considerably.

 

The card wad column probably patterns more poorly than a plastic shot cup would, but

for most shooting and even most knockdowns I've encountered so far, the load

(2 drams BP, over powder card, 1/2 " cushion wad , paper shot cup and 1 1/8 oz. shot)

seems to perform well enough in the TTN that I haven't messed with it.

 

The shortened shells don't leave much room for a reasonable BP powder charge and a full

plastic shot wad ...I've cut the bottoms off some old plastic wads I had and they seemed

to work OK.

[Charlie MacNeil, SASS #48580]

I've loaded 'em both ways, and as folks have stated here, they seem to take the KD's down either way. I've lately been loading plastic, having gotten a truckload of "Pattern Control" wads a few years ago that are just right in my BP shells, but a week or so ago I got the fiber wad bug again, and I'm gonna try roll crimping some shells as well. Why do I meander back and forth between plastic and fiber? Because I can. I'm playing the game the way I want to play it...

[Elfego, SASS #50493]

My black powder loads use the typical plastic wads - why make it more difficult?

 

elfego

[South Devon Cattleman, SASS #59003]

My black powder loads use the typical plastic wads - why make it more difficult?

 

elfego

I agree. I use the white WAA12 wad. I had over 1000 of these from when I shot trap. So I had them on hand. I just poured the Clays powder out of my MEC Powder bottle and poured in the 3F Black powder and I was good to go. I have since reduced my shot to 1oz from 1 1/8oz of shot. Clean up is easy I just squirt some windex multi purpose cleaner down the barrel or barrels. I then clean my other guns and then just put a patch over a bore brush and push through the barrel or barrels. I then put some Break Free on a clean patch over the bore brush and push it through the barrel or barrels. No reason to make it difficult.

[Jed I. Knight, SASS #36423]

I'll throw my vote in for using the plastic wads.

 

I haven't tried the fiber method... but I've had positive results with the plastic.

[Smithy]

Well the way I look at it there are a couple of things to consider. First there is this item......

 

The fiber wads give you a nice confetti effect and Driftwood will back me up in saying fiber wads are more likely to set your local club on fire.

 

Although I've not had this happen with 12 gauge, I have had it happen with 45 LC. My LC rounds use a vegetable wad just under the bullet and over the powder to take up space and make for compression. My son was working his way through a 4X4 post left from a competition so his aim and position was fixed. Bullets, cases, and wads all going to their respective same locations. The range had a big piece of shag carpet ahead of the shooters to catch ejected auto shells, and also unburnt powder and such. It didn't take long before a smoldering wad caught some unburnt powder and shag carpet on fire. It was quite a display until it was brought under control.

 

The way I load my brass 12 gauges I think eliminates this worry. I use a ballistic products orbitrator wad over the powder (no fire action) then a 1/8" lube cookie, then two 1/2" fiber wads, then two .125 nitro card wads, shot, then plastic over shot wads (enough 1-3 to level the load) and finally a .03 over shot card wad and roll crimp. Takes a little time on my single stage press, but it's worth it and I have a little plastic snot to clean up afterwards. Enough to realize that if I were to use an all plastic wad, the cleanup would be horrendous. Smithy.

[Rye Miles #13621]

Plastic, nice and easy.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

The fiber wads give you a nice confetti effect and Driftwood will back me up in saying fiber wads are more likely to set your local club on fire.

 

Howdy

 

I dunno what Iron Pony is talking about, there is very little 'confetti effect' with my loads.

 

As for setting fires, I don't care what you do, or how many wads you put in the load. If you shoot real Black Powder, you will be throwing sparks. Period. Wait until it starts to get a little bit dark. Those 'flames' you see are actually a shower of sparks.

 

I have been trying to set fire to a stage for years. Have not succeeded yet.

[Utah Bob #35998]

My doc said I needed more fiber so that's what I use. Perhaps I misunderstood him...

[Carlos El Hombre]

I find that Win red wads or CB1138 work fine down to 2 1/2 dram loads so recoil with these wads should not be much of a problem.

Carlos

[The Shoer 27979]

My ex boss gave me a bunch and I mean a bunch like about 3/4 of a garbage bag full of misc. plastic wads and fiber wads. I used up all the plastic wads, so all I have left are over power cards and fiber wads. I like the fiber wads, when I am loading AA hulls all it is, is one more pull of the handle on my old Texan reloading for the fiber wads.

[Wagon Box Willy]

Howdy Pards,

 

In my opening post I mentioned that cost wasn't a priority but I thought I'd run my costs through a Shotshell cost calculator and see what I came up with.

 

Bottom line per box price is $8.79 for plastic wads and $10.29 for fiber. Since I would have to buy my fiber wads at a vendor that I can't really reduce my shipping cost by purchasing other stuff I included it in the wad cost.

 

If you're interested all my current costs are in the following screenshots. I was lucky to find the last local bag of shot at a good price so I'd expect that cost to go up significantly if I cant find more and have to mail order. I also hope that once I actually get my long guns (sxs in the mail) and can join a club I'll be able to reduce my powder and shot cost with club buys.

 

Willy

 

Plastic wad cost

 

Fiber was/card cost

[Fairshake]

The best way that I have found to clean after shooting the plastic from my TTN is using Windex/Vinegar. Soak the barrels good and lay flat so that it stays.I make my first pass with the brass brush. Then make another 4-5 passes with more Windex and the barrels should show no sign of plastic. If done correctly you will have what appears to be a shed snake skin come out the barrels. I then follow with moosemilk and boresnake and it is done.

[Jabez Cowboy,SASS # 50129]

I use 3.1cc of 3F and a BP #02Z16 Commander Wad With an Oz. of shot in my 16 ga. Guns ...... In Fedral Hulls...

 

Or Fiber and Felt ................................

 

The plastic is easy ....

 

 

Jabez Cowboy