Madd Mike #8595 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 it is of my personal opinion that 90% of the major protests' are from shooters that have not personally, (RECENTLY) reviewed the rules and ro materials, that are free on the interent ok my rant is over sassmaddmike@yahoo.com if you want ta simple example what does "no alibi match" mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Korupt Karl Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 No Alibi means to me: Once the first round goes downrange on a stage the shooter is committed...... KK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phantom, SASS #54973 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Uh...no reshoots for gun malfunctions...???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 I was thinkin the same as KK, but even though I just recently took RO II I wasn't sure about what Phantom said, so I looked it up. Shooter's Handbook, page 20 SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. They both are correct. I like what some big matches do, to lodge an appeal you have to but up some money, if you win, you get it back, if not you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 I actually herd these said to me in person shooters gets a reshoot due to possible timer malfunction (timer operators admits he is NOT sure what happened) .....many time state champion says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!" even after long debate its a windy day, right when the timer goes buzz, stampede string on the shooters hat blows in their face, they request a restart, as they tuck the flappig thing into their shirt, and restart was granted by the timer ......many time EOT category winner, standing next to me looks at me and says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!" I was a tadd bit suprised Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizzly Dave Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 MM, wow, amazing lack of understanding of 'no alibi match' on their parts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 The wind in the south of France gets partial credit for driving Vincent Van Gogh nuts. Maybe they were a little addled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doc Shapiro Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Until the first round has left the barrel, the shooter may restart. That's what the book says. Which is in contradiction to the previous statement that it's a "no alibi match." A no-alibi match means when the buzzer goes off, you're committed. Not once the first round has left the barrel. SASS is a kinder gentler game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Madd Mike #8595 Posted May 30, 2011 Author Share Posted May 30, 2011 we allowed both the restart and reshoot, that I mentioned ...............as our interpitation is................ "no alibi" means you cannot get a reshoot if there is ammo or firearm malfunction (cept fer a first round shot on a stage that is a squib that does not leave the barrel) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anvil Al #59168 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Shooter's Handbook, page 20 SASS matches above the club level are “no alibi” matches. Once the first round goes down range, the competitor is committed to the stage and must finish the stage to the best of his or her ability. Reshoots/restarts are not awarded for ammunition or firearm malfunctions. Bingo. That's the way they are all ran in this area. As the SASS book shows what "No Alibi" is as far as SASS is concerned. We should not read anything else into it except what it says a No Alibi SASS match is. No more. No less. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cowboy Junky Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Too me it means all the little nice gimmies like gun malfunctions, ammo issues, falling down, etc that we might “overlook” at monthly matches will not be apply. But, SASS rules like first shot down range, RO interference, etc still apply… Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 No Alibi means to me: Once the first round goes downrange on a stage the shooter is committed...... KK Yes, however there are exceptions. One is the following. I actually herd these said to me in person shooters gets a reshoot due to possible timer malfunction (timer operators admits he is NOT sure what happened) ... Another exception I can think of is when a cease fire is called. It could be due someone or an animal showing up downrange or... Regards, Allie "let's not be so certain there are B&W answers to every question" Mo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Till the lead of the first bullet clears the barrel the shooter can get a RESTART. * - Fumbled shotgun shells * - Tie down still on revolver hammers. * - Shooter forgot what he was suppose to do * - Hat falling in face * - Holsters falling off Are just a few Now after the first bullet leaves the barrel..... Then we are talking RE-SHOOT. And for that there has to be a real good reason not an alibi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlands Bob #61228 Posted May 30, 2011 Share Posted May 30, 2011 Another example would be if the shooter is deaf as a post and doesn't hear the beep. They just stand there. After a couple of seconds, I get their attention and we start over, usually adding in a shoulder tap. Once the 1st round goes down range, they are committed except for the usual exceptions that are not the shooters fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gold Canyon Kid #43974 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 I actually herd these said to me in person shooters gets a reshoot due to possible timer malfunction (timer operators admits he is NOT sure what happened) .....many time state champion says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!" even after long debate its a windy day, right when the timer goes buzz, stampede string on the shooters hat blows in their face, they request a restart, as they tuck the flappig thing into their shirt, and restart was granted by the timer ......many time EOT category winner, standing next to me looks at me and says "I thought this was a no alibi shoot!" I was a tadd bit suprised Shooter can request restart unless first round has gone out of his barrel. If that first round has gone down range shooter is on the clock with no alibi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Goliath, SASS #41359 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 The wind in the south of France gets partial credit for driving Vincent Van Gogh nuts. Maybe they were a little addled. Did he get an alibi? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flying W Ramrod Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Did he get an alibi? Nah, but the appeal cost him an ear. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nasty Newt # 7365 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 No alibi for Vincent. The bullet had left the barrel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Since I can't understand half of what Mike usually says, I'll put this in plain English. Stage called for 15 pistol and 10 rifle. (Wild Bunch match ) Shooter blazes through all the pistol but has a squib on second rifle shot. After everything was made safe, the Timer Operator discovered what was determined to be a timer malfunction. The protest was that this was a no alibi match and therefore shooter doesn't get a re-shoot for a squib. I, as Match Director, said the squib was irrelevant. Shooter got a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. Protest was still made that this was a no alibi match and shooter should not have gotten a re-shoot because first round had gone down range. (Thankfully the final results of the match wouldn't have changed even if the shooter had not gotten a re-shoot.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 Since I can't understand half of what Mike usually says, I'll put this in plain English. Stage called for 15 pistol and 10 rifle. (Wild Bunch match ) Shooter blazes through all the pistol but has a squib on second rifle shot. After everything was made safe, the Timer Operator discovered what was determined to be a timer malfunction. The protest was that this was a no alibi match and therefore shooter doesn't get a re-shoot for a squib. I, as Match Director, said the squib was irrelevant. Shooter got a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. Protest was still made that this was a no alibi match and shooter should not have gotten a re-shoot because first round had gone down range. (Thankfully the final results of the match wouldn't have changed even if the shooter had not gotten a re-shoot.) Hey Philly, IMHO, how the h--- can you give a time with a timer malfunction. IIUC the reshoot was for the timer malfunction not the squib. BTW, only the shooter can appeal a call. This is exactly the reason for that rule. Allie Mo PS I you for your take on this! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted May 31, 2011 Share Posted May 31, 2011 IIUC the reshoot was for the timer malfunction not the squib. Yep, you understand correctly. PS I you for your take on this! Will this earn me a hug next time we see each other? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marauder SASS #13056 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The squib results in some misses. But a reshoot is required due to the timer failure. On a reshoot, only safety penalties carry forward. That is all pretty well spelled out in the rules - when we bother to read them :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ace_of_Hearts Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Since I can't understand half of what Mike usually says, I'll put this in plain English. Stage called for 15 pistol and 10 rifle. (Wild Bunch match ) Shooter blazes through all the pistol but has a squib on second rifle shot. After everything was made safe, the Timer Operator discovered what was determined to be a timer malfunction. The protest was that this was a no alibi match and therefore shooter doesn't get a re-shoot for a squib. I, as Match Director, said the squib was irrelevant. Shooter got a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. Protest was still made that this was a no alibi match and shooter should not have gotten a re-shoot because first round had gone down range. (Thankfully the final results of the match wouldn't have changed even if the shooter had not gotten a re-shoot.) Shooter gets a re-shoot due to timer malfunction. This should be a call by the Timer Operator and has nothing to do with speed/fumbles/squibs/misfires. (Or any other alibi). Any safety violations, if any, carry forward and are added to re-shoot time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooting Bull Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 The squib results in some misses. But a reshoot is required due to the timer failure. On a reshoot, only safety penalties carry forward. That is all pretty well spelled out in the rules - when we bother to read them :D The problem arose from the term "No alibi". Some folks don't understand that term isn't an absolute. True, no alibi for shooter equipment malfunctions but, prop failure, timer malfunctions, RO interference and other such things still grant the shooter a re-shoot. That's where confusion lies and I believe is the reason Mike started this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allie Mo, SASS No. 25217 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 Yep! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck D. Law, SASS #62183 Posted June 1, 2011 Share Posted June 1, 2011 we allowed both the restart and reshoot, that I mentioned ...............as our interpitation is................ "no alibi" means you cannot get a reshoot if there is ammo or firearm malfunction (cept fer a first round shot on a stage that is a squib that does not leave the barrel) I would have never in a million years thought of the first bullet being a squib...and not being considered a round downrange...until this weekend. I suppose though if you think about it, if there's a squib in there somewhere, there's a one in twenty chance it will be the first round...that doesn't go downrange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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