Got NEW brass? - SIZE it!

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

At the Black Powder Guild shoot at Cutter's Raiders I had oodles of FUN, but had some quirky issues with my Marlin...and even worse with my '92.

 

Here's the deal:

 

After day 1 the Marlin was 'sticky' when levering a round to chamber. Thought it was my loading gate 'cause the screw was loose...nope. Later that night checked all the other screws...they were tight.....

 

so - day 2 I figured to bring out the '92 - yeowwww! it would hardly chamber, it would take about 5 seconds to chamber each round. I was befuddled. Then I brought back the Marlin...same 'sticky' issues as day 1.

 

After much thought I realized that it was on the first stage on day 1(the only stage) the Marlin worked flawlessly. Why? well, because I used some left over reloads from a previous match. These were from older brass that I had popped out the primers and sized.

 

The new brass I just received from Starline was used for all the other loads...but....I just bell mouthed the cases to load, I did not run them through the sizing die - shame shame I say!!

 

The Gremlin has been revealed ~ so, although some may get by not sizing new brass, it's a better idea to size all new brass. At least that's my lesson...

 

GG ~

[Yusta B.]

Another vote for the Lee Factory Crimp Die .

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

What case? .45 Colt? One reason lots of folks may be able to get by without sizing it is that the Uberti 73 and 66 chambers are very often quite a bit oversize, because the SAAMI spec allows a really large chamber diameter. Your Marlin and 92 may have smaller chambers, and thus you had problems with as-manufactured new cases not chambering well.

 

Good luck, and sorry you got bit. GJ

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

What case? .45 Colt? One reason lots of folks may be able to get by without sizing it is that the Uberti 73 and 66 chambers are very often quite a bit oversize, because the SAAMI spec allows a really large chamber diameter. Your Marlin and 92 may have smaller chambers, and thus you had problems with as-manufactured new cases not chambering well.

 

Good luck, and sorry you got bit. GJ

 

Sorry - 45 Colt

Like I usually say : School ain't cheap

GG ~

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

Another vote for the Lee Factory Crimp Die .

 

 

[Bustin Caps]

After a simular problem with a tight chamber on a 38 special Navy Arms 1866 Carbine . I have started running all of my reloaded rounds through the sizing die again just to make sure they are sized correctly. Running them through a crimp die would do the samething.

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

What case? .45 Colt? One reason lots of folks may be able to get by without sizing it is that the Uberti 73 and 66 chambers are very often quite a bit oversize, because the SAAMI spec allows a really large chamber diameter. Your Marlin and 92 may have smaller chambers, and thus you had problems with as-manufactured new cases not chambering well.

 

Good luck, and sorry you got bit. GJ

Garrison Joe You are not exaggerating about Uberti's sloppy chambers

I have two of Uberti's toggle link rifles in 45 colt a 73 from 1995 and a 66 from 2005,I knew both had generous chambers as when shoot full cases of black powder the cases had quite a belly to them,roughly in the middle of the case. Which would swell into the belly portion of the chamber causing sometimes sticky extraction. I had read what Nate Kiowa Jones had said about Uberti's chambers but these were particularly bad IMO.

 

I finally had it especially with the 66,I found a gun smith who is specialist in reboring rifle barrels. I talked to him over a period of time about having the chamber sleeved, he said no problem.

So this past winter I had him do both rifles and a pard also had him do his Marlin in 45 colt. The gun smith called me as I had given him fired cases with each rifle. He said when he got around to examining the cases with the rifle chambers,he wanted to delve more in depth into the dimensions as they were in the rifles.

 

He did chamber casts of each and recorded his findings,What he called me for was the 66. He found it was the worst of the two,which I knew, The chamber cast told him it was chambered so long it would readily except 454 Casull. The chambers were outside of SAMMI specs in all dimensions according to him.

He indicated in all his years of gun smiting that those two rifles were the worst examples of chambering he had seen to date and he said he had seen some bad ones.

 

The good news was how well those two rifles shoot now,at roughly 70.00 per rifle for me it was money well spent. Adios Sgt. Jake

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

After a simular problem with a tight chamber on a 38 special Navy Arms 1866 Carbine . I have started running all of my reloaded rounds through the sizing die again just to make sure they are sized correctly. Running them through a crimp die would do the samething.

 

Gulp.

 

Sizing loaded rounds in your sizer does not "size them correctly." You are mashing the bullet way down! Maybe you don't care about accuracy, but you are certainly reducing case life, and probably raising pressures a little, too.

 

A sizing die is a lot tighter than a Lee Factory Crimp Die. If you have problems properly crimping a loaded round in .38 special, you have some distinct misunderstanding of how to adjust your dies. You can use a FCD or a Redding profile crimp die to take care of sloppy, bulging crimps, but it is always better to adjust your seater/roll crimper die(s) to do what they are designed to do perfectly well.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Springfield Slim SASS #24733]

I tumble all my new brass and just run them through my Dillon 550 like normal. They all get sized just before I put the new primer in, no problem.

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

....They all get sized just before I put the new primer in, no problem.

 

That's usually the protocol for me, but I missed it this time around with the new brass. After much thought I remembered getting some new brass years ago and didn't size them. However they were used exclusively in my Uberti Henry and Vaquero pistols with no issues.....as mentioned in my first post, The Marlin and '92 hated that approach

 

GG ~

[Ranger Sgt. Jake McCandless #3368]

Their are very few things I am anal about but I always run new brass through my resizing die,Gunner I learned the same way you did about twenty five years ago,I haven't forgot it yet. Adios Sgt. Jake

[shenny]

I did the exact same thing this past weekend at the 1st. Virginia State Blackpowder Championship. Had no problems with the guns, but played he** getting them out of my loading blocks. I had about 50 old rounds of once fired brass and had no trouble with it. I will say that Starline nickel 45 Schofield cleans well.

 

shenny

[Gunner Gatlin, SASS 10274L]

I did the exact same thing this past weekend at the 1st. Virginia State Blackpowder Championship. Had no problems with the guns, but played he** getting them out of my loading blocks. I had about 50 old rounds of once fired brass and had no trouble with it. I will say that Starline nickel 45 Schofield cleans well.

 

shenny

 

that should have been a clue for me, but it was wet and humid so I figured the wood just swelled up some.....yeesh

 

GG ~

[Lefty Dude, SASS # 51223]

If you shoot 44-40 and use new Starline brass you have no choice but to size the new brass.

 

Starline ships the 44-40 straight wall, and no neck.

[Noz]

Their are very few things I am anal about but I always run new brass through my resizing die,Gunner I learned the same way you did about twenty five years ago,I haven't forgot it yet. Adios Sgt. Jake

 

Me too, but my learning was cheap. I bought a batch of Starline 44 mags that I intended to load with some 429 purchased lead bullets. The first round I loaded I put the bullet in the charged case and levered it into the press. I didn't have it in the shell holder quite right and the bullet hit the edge of the die and was pushed flush into the case.

I sized all of the cases and loaded them as normal.

[Curley Cole, SASS #56849]

When I learned that need I had only loaded 50 rounds. So the inconvience was minimal.

 

Now days I add a small step to my reloading that would have id'd that problem quickly. I keep a cylinder from my favorite shooter by the loading press. I drop each loaded round in a chamber. If it falls in easily, I leave it there till all six are filled and dump and start again. If it doesn't go in easily I check the problem right there. It is sorta a poor mans go-no go tester.

 

curley

[Brasspounder]

I got bit pretty bad in a major match from using cartridge cases I'd bought second hand from reclaimers

at other matches. I loaded a bunch of these without giving resizing a thought...OOOps!

 

Wouldn't chamber in my 1873 and I had to take a load of misses.

 

Now, every reload I do gets passed through a simple gauge I made that makes SURE the things

The gauge is simple and consists of a 1/8 x 1 inch cold rolled piece of strap steel bent at

a 90 degree angle with a crefully reamed hole in one "leg".

 

This is screwed to the loading bench near the press, and every reloaded round is pushed

into it to make sure it slips easily all the way to the rim. If they pass this test and

a second "OAL" gauge, I KNOW they'll work in my rifle.

[Nate Kiowa Jones #6765]

New brass should always be full length resized and you should check to see if it needs trimming as well. The brass makers usually make it to the large size of the specs. This is because it is much easier for the end user to size it down rather that fire form it up. Trimming to length is not as critical if you are using the Lee FCD.

[Hardpan Curmudgeon SASS #8967]

After a simular problem with a tight chamber on a 38 special Navy Arms 1866 Carbine . I have started running all of my reloaded rounds through the sizing die again just to make sure they are sized correctly. Running them through a crimp die would do the samething.

 

 

Gulp.

 

Sizing loaded rounds in your sizer does not "size them correctly." You are mashing the bullet way down! Maybe you don't care about accuracy, but you are certainly reducing case life, and probably raising pressures a little, too.

 

A sizing die is a lot tighter than a Lee Factory Crimp Die. If you have problems properly crimping a loaded round in .38 special, you have some distinct misunderstanding of how to adjust your dies. You can use a FCD or a Redding profile crimp die to take care of sloppy, bulging crimps, but it is always better to adjust your seater/roll crimper die(s) to do what they are designed to do perfectly well.

 

Good luck, GJ

Not a "crimping" thing - and this isn't a unique approach to solving an annoying problem...

 

Sassparilla Kid's '66 has the same issue: Properly sized brass loaded with properly sized .358 lead bullets will NOT chamber easily. The only way to ensure chambering is to use undersized bullets or to run loaded ammunition through a sizing die.

 

By the way... the other eight gaspipes in the safe with this chambering have no problem chambering "normally" loaded ammunition. I suppose someday he may have to have the danged thing reamed...

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Not a "crimping" thing - and this isn't a unique approach to solving an annoying problem...

 

Sassparilla Kid's '66 has the same issue: Properly sized brass loaded with properly sized .358 lead bullets will NOT chamber easily. The only way to ensure chambering is to use undersized bullets or to run loaded ammunition through a sizing die.

 

By the way... the other eight gaspipes in the safe with this chambering have no problem chambering "normally" loaded ammunition. I suppose someday he may have to have the danged thing reamed...

 

Yep, what happens when the inevitable happens, and he gets to a match with no ammo, or short some, and wants to borrow, beg, steal or buy some? Or even loan that gun to someone else when their's breaks? "There will be no joy in Muddville" that day.

 

I'll grant you that some other folks report doing that to solve various problems. But, it's not a solution, really, its a crutch to avoid solving a real problem.

 

Good luck with that one! GJ

[Marshal Barks Fuller]

Yeah, this one bit me too, but i figured it out when I went to put the bullet on the case to seat it, and it seated itself........way too far in! The case was too big!! So I ran 'em through the decapper/sizer die and now you can see on the very bottom above the rim the original size of the case, then it tapers down to the "correct" size. So I learned, *same process, every time, regardless of what I think doesn't need doin'!"