OT - Red Dot Sights

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Just got a good deal on a Stevens 200 in .223 and plan on working it into a nice little tactical / scout rifle.

 

I am looking for some insights as to what would be the better red dot sight option. I've been looking at the various vendor and manufacturer and review sites, and quite frankly it's enough to make your head swim. Having no experience with these, I'm hoping some pards have.

 

Is there any advantage to either the holo screen vs. the tube style? What about ease of use & targeting? Which holds up better under field conditions - weather, recoil, etc.? Which one is better at holding zero shot-to-shot and remounting? Any maker better than another?

 

I did notice the EOTech ones are pretty highly rated, but I don't want to spend more on the sight than I did on the rifle. Once I get the sight issue resolved, then it'll be time for a good bipod and replacing the internal box magazine with the adapter unit that lets you use standard AR mags.

[Utah Bob #35998]

Holo sights are quicker on target when milliseconds count. That's why most tac teams use them.

[Iron Pony]

Capt I got one of the Millett DMS-1 scopes for my M4 knock off. Its a 1-4X with dot/donut scope with illuminated reticle and gives good accuracy near and far. At 1X it pretty much duplicates what you'd see with the naked eye, and the donut works much like a peep site. At higher magnification the dot comes into play for more precision. At 100 yards its as accurate as whatever ammunition you feed the rifle. It appears hell for rugged and not something you could scrape off the rifle without really really working at it. Right now its installed on a riser from the receiver but once the std sites are replaced with fold down units it will go right on the flat top for a lower profile.

 

Also just came back from a cowboymatch at the Sig Academy in Epping and picked up one of their STL300J "stop lite" forward grips. Light has two settings, strobe or continuous. The former is a wicked distraction device and the full on setting is brighther then hell. Neat thing is it has an integrated laser as well so now I'll have close, far, laser etc all on the same rifle.

[Buckshot Frank]

Holosights have a bigger, easier to pick up reticle. Red dots have longer battery life and are usually more durable. I wouldn't consider any holosight other than an Eotech. For red dots, there are decent economical options (i.e. Primary Arms, Vortex, etc). Of course, you can't beat an Aimpoint if it fits your budget.

[Remo, SASS #17644]

I do have both the Eotech and Aimpoint. As you will not be subjecting the sight to military use and conditions you will not have to worry about the scratching on the lens that can occur on an Eotech. Eotechs come in a 2 or 4 MOA dot. A 4 can cover up a whole bunch of target at 100 yards and neither are fitting for long distance target use... but you can get on target fast for something moving. Battery life longer in an Aimpoint. I slightly prefer the Eotech. Primary Arms and Vortex make good product.

[Smithy]

I've owned several "red dot" sights over the last 20 years from the first expensive years to the recent inexpensive ones and have bought really "cheap" budget cruddy ones up to ones like the Aimpoint CompM4s (a very expensive purchase at the time). When I was last looking for a red dot scope I remember reading a bit about the differences you are now asking about and admittingly Aimpoint is trying to sell Aimpoint products but here is a link to their page where they discuss those differences you've mentioned. http://www.aimpoint.com/us/about-aimpoint/technology/ Hope that this is of some help to you. Smithy.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

Thanks to my sons mil. service I have been able to see and use ALL of the current issue "glass". With my 60 year old eyes I went with Trijicon ACOG TA31F-G

Check one out BEFORE you buy anything else.

The TA44's are sweet too.

Respectfully,

LG

[Manatee]

You've got a bolt action rifle. So, sights appropriate for semi-autos don't necessarily suit your setup.

 

If you're truly thinking about a scout rifle with a barrel mounted rail, then a long eye relief scope might be a better option. Plus, you've got a number of pistol-designated illuminated dot scopes that can also be used with a .223.

 

What optics would I put on a $250 rifle? Probably the best 3 x 9 I could buy for the money. Likely a Burris Fullfield II or something similar.

 

A Savage has great accuracy and a red dot holo doesn't exploit that.

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

To me a very important point in red dot sights is size of dot. Remo touched on the fact of cover up and I must emphasis one looking into that issue. I still use a 1st generation Busnell HaloSight on one of my FA 454s. In it I have their optional 1 mil single dot which I find great for hunting if one wants a red dot sight for hunting, however to pick the dot up quickly in situations other than hunting, or a non-accuracy situation, then the larger dot might be prefered. I believe most of the tube types have the larger dots which definetely cover up an appreciable amount of area.

[Cowboy Junky]

You've got a bolt action rifle. So, sights appropriate for semi-autos don't necessarily suit your setup.

 

If you're truly thinking about a scout rifle with a barrel mounted rail, then a long eye relief scope might be a better option. Plus, you've got a number of pistol-designated illuminated dot scopes that can also be used with a .223.

 

What optics would I put on a $250 rifle? Probably the best 3 x 9 I could buy for the money. Likely a Burris Fullfield II or something similar.

 

A Savage has great accuracy and a red dot holo doesn't exploit that.

 

+1 you get decent accuracy but improve the ability to get on target quicker with those while not losing your field of view but......not a good setup for a bolt action rifle and you probably won’t be happy with the accuracy. I would go with a scout setup or a decent fixed 4X or 3X -9X.

[Noz]

Tube

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

Thanx for the input pards!

 

So, the red dot sights are better suited for CQB situations where rapid target acquisition is a priority, and the range isn't excessive. A scope is better suited to this scout rifle project. Right tool for the job.

 

One thing I learned while researching the options is what Remo mentioned - dot size. Most of the red dots list a 4 MOA size dot, which translates to covering 4" @ 100 yards. That's a lot of target to be masking at that range, and obviously the further away you are the more you'll be covering.

 

So to scopes ... trying to keep the budget at $100 or less, I've kind of narrowed the field to this Tasco Scope, or this Tasco Scope, and I've also looked at these Osprey Scopes. I'm familiar with the Tasco name, the reviews have all been pretty good, and since they're now owned by Bushnell I imagine the quality should be good too. The only difference between the two is one is illuminated, the other isn't. Is an illuminated reticle a useful option?

 

The Osprey line looks pretty good too, and they advertise that they use American-made parts. Anybody have experience with these? I also looked at the Barska line, and while they do have some nifty looking scopes, the reviews have been spotty ... their QC seems to be somewhat hit-or-miss. And miss isn't an option.

 

Given the choices, what do y'all think would be the best of the bunch? Or is there another company in the price range that I may be unaware of?

 

Thanx in advance.

[The Original Lumpy Gritz]

You get what you pay for

Respectfully,

LG

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Agree that for rifle, especially a .223, red dot is not the call. Like Manatee mentions, for Scout type, go to long I relief. I use a Leupold 2X EER, which is in reality only 1X, on my 10" FA 454, and with proper rest & conditions I take shots that most would consider long range for revolver. Even though just 1X, it is amazing the results one can get just having good clear optics and duplex versus open sights. At $100 budget it is as Lumpy says, "You get what you pay for" and that is not going to be much. In fact for $100, not sure I know of an optic I would trust or depend on. IMO you should save your coins for good optics, they are almost as important as accuracy in the rifle....remember that bad optics could ruin shots from the most accurate of rifles.

[Manatee]

I've used an Osprey scope for a short period of time. The glass was very good but the illuminated reticle wasn't. I think in your price range you'll probably end up with the worst of all possible worlds: mediocre glass and illumination.

 

One of the cheaper ways to get long eye relief is to go with a shotgun scope. Bushnell has a few Banners with 6" eye relief and 4x or variable 1.5 to x power, that are less than $100.

 

But, you get what you pay for with optics. Wire reticles vs. etched. Reticles in the proper focal plane. Settings that hold, one piece tubes, purged tubes, o-ring seals, etc.

 

Savage rifles generally have excellent cold-shot performance. With a nice scope, it will shoot better than most of us.

[Cabalero Chuck]

I followed some of the links and recommendations here since an optic will be usefull on a Beretta CX4.

I find that the offerings from Vortex, although about half as much more than the suggested budget ($150.00 for the Strikefire being thier least expensive) sure seem worth the extra cost.

[Buckshot Frank]

What's wrong with just mounting a low powered variable scope in the normal location? There will be more options available when not limiting yourself to a LER scope.

[Big Sage, SASS #49891 Life]

I have 2 pistols (a .22 & .38) with red dots on them. They are the long eye relief and the dots have 10 or 11 settings (can't remember as I only use #1 the smallest)for dot size & illumination. As stated...you get what you pay for. I used Tasco & BSA which were junk and only lasted a short time. I am now using Ultra Dot which are first class, clear and sharp. I shoot in a Bullseye pistol league and have used these for 4 years, just replace batteries annually. Some of our shooters use the halo style and from what I can tell its personal preference. We allow no magnification, so mine are 1x. Hope this helps some.

[Manatee]

What's wrong with just mounting a low powered variable scope in the normal location? There will be more options available when not limiting yourself to a LER scope.

 

 

It wouldn't be a Col Cooper scout rifle then.......

[Captain Woodrow Cahill, SASS # 54363]

And the illuminated reticle? Is there enough advantage to one to make it worth the extra $20?

[Chili Ron]

Howdy,

A good scope for a 223 is a burris 4-12 with adjustable objective.

Also a similar Nikon should work well.

The burris have lifetime warranty but not the big rep of Leupold.

If you can find a tasco 4-16, that would be good for a while but

it wont last a long time.

 

You dont really say what you are going to do with your rifle.

That can sure change the optic.

Best

CR

[Sixgun Shorty, SASS #35717 Life]

Just got a good deal on a Stevens 200 in .223 and plan on working it into a nice little tactical / scout rifle.

 

I am looking for some insights as to what would be the better red dot sight option. I've been looking at the various vendor and manufacturer and review sites, and quite frankly it's enough to make your head swim. Having no experience with these, I'm hoping some pards have.

 

Is there any advantage to either the holo screen vs. the tube style? What about ease of use & targeting? Which holds up better under field conditions - weather, recoil, etc.? Which one is better at holding zero shot-to-shot and remounting? Any maker better than another?

 

I did notice the EOTech ones are pretty highly rated, but I don't want to spend more on the sight than I did on the rifle. Once I get the sight issue resolved, then it'll be time for a good bipod and replacing the internal box magazine with the adapter unit that lets you use standard AR mags.

 

 

Holo sights, like Eotech(can be used with a flip to the side magnifier), C-More, Trijicon and others are rapid accquisition sights meant to be used with both eyes open to enhance your situational awareness of your surroundings while aiming.

Red dots are not nearly as fast to acquire, but work more like conventional scopes(no magnification though) with the red dot acting as the 'crosshairs' on a normal scope.

Really depends on what you want to do with the gun you mount it on.I have both(if you buy a red dot, be sure to buy at least a 1X30mm objective), but for Holo sights, you can't do any better than Eotech, followed by C-More and Aimpoint(as good as Eotech just different) IMHO.For a telescopic/red dot combo that is pretty close to a rapid acquisition scope that does it all and without a power source), you can't do better than the Trijicon ACOG. By the way, many times the scope can easily cost more than the weapon it will be used on, particularly when you get into the finer optics offered by Zeiss, Leupold,Aimpoint,Swarovsky,US Optics,Eotech,ACOG,Nikon to name but a few.Like everything else, you get what you pay for, and the best optics are expensive, but well worth it.I also recommend on a tactical weapon like an AR or even a Scout bolt gun, buy a scope with long eye relief.With most red dots and holos, eye relief doesn't matter.

Hint: Nikon is making some fantastic scopes now for AR platforms with rapid acquisition turrets and BDC compensation in a 3X12X42 scope calibrated for the 55 gr .223 and is deadnuts on accurate out to 600 meters(Nikon Model M-223).

Using the new Nikon system (Leupold has a similar .223 scope), you just can't miss and does not rquire any hold over or ballistic adjustments.They are also very reasonable considering their high quality.About $500-550 retail.

 

If you are looking for very good inexpensive red dot with green and red reticles and variable intensity, the Bushnell Trophy 1x32 for under $200 is very good. I have one on my 7.62x39 AR 15 with Magpul back up folding sights that are cowitnessed with the scope...accurate as hell to 100 yards, which is about as far as i can shoot anymore without magnification.This Bushnell is about the least expensive sight i would consider for one my 5 personal custom AR's.

I also have one mounted on my Colt/Umarex AR .22 and it is awesome and a lot of fun!

 

If you really want to have fun with your AR, check this out:watch the video...it will amaze you!

http://nevadawestern...com/ssar15.html