1911 loading problem

[Badlands Beady]

Recently bought one of the Armscor 1911s that Cimarron is selling. I've only tried hollow points in it so far, and they won't feed. Rather than pushing up and into the chamber from the clip, the bullet's nose jams into the forward inside surface of the grip just below the rear of the chamber. I've tried loading with several different clips, including the two that came with the gun, and no joy. Is this a common problem with these bullets, or is it the gun?

[Matthew Duncan]

Try round nose ammo?

[Indian Jack.]

try round nose lead or round nose jacketed...that is what they were designed for and some just dont like hollowpoints. we qualify with round nose jacketed at work and they give us hydrashok to carry in the gun. Hydrashoks work through the gun but when I recovered both in some media the hydrashoks did not deform any more than the FMJ's did. they just dont fast enough to expand in my opinion.

[Church Key, SASS # 33713]

They are designed to feed 230 gr. RN ammo. Try some next; not a mag problem.

[Jack Houston # 35508]

Yep, as said before round nose ammo works in these!

[Chickasaw Bill SASS #70001]

Sir

Most auto loaders do not like "flying ashtrays " aka hollowpoints , they tend to stub into the feed ramp . The larger the frontal area of the projectile the worse it becomes .

Some times it is possable to overcome this by loading to a longer LAO . there are also HPs with a more rounded profile that will feed better than others .

CB

[Malpais Mike]

Hello the camp! I have a truck gun I call, "Frank", short for Frankenstein. Sold by Interarms, it is an Essex after-market frame with a Remington Rand slide, and who-knows-what innards. It will hold a mag of hardball in a paper plate at 25 yd, which is plenty good for me and the $75 I paid for it. I bought 5 sleeves of primers from Caswell's at a Phx gun show. While chitty-chatting, I mentioned I was starting to load for Frank. The clerk gave me a bag of 200-gr tc Laredos, free. That should date it back before the Flood. They will NOT feed in Frank; hardball does just fine. They WILL feed in my P90, my Springfield Champion and my XD.45; not sure I've tried them in my Taurus.

Bottom line is, without expensive porting and polishing, up to and including a ramped bbl, you have a hardball pistola. Not the end of the world; there's plenty of potent jacketed and lrn loads out there. One ray of maybe: if I shot slow, Frank would digest Gold Dots, but I didn't carry them cuz if I got too involved, he would hiccup. My .02. See ya round the campfire. mm

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

Well, Badlands, with all due respect to the previous posters here, your problem is only a minor one and easily fixed up.

 

The feed ramp and barrel need to be profiled properly and nicely polished. This is an easy job for a 1911 knowledgeable gunsmith. Might as well have 'em tune the trigger at the same time, to about 4-5 pounds pull or so. Should not set you back more than than an action job on a six-shooter. And then you will have a gun that feeds anything.

 

The hollowpoint rounds are snagging on the joint where the frame and the barrel meet. When the barrel is properly throated, it will sit just about 0.0100.030" (thanks HJ) in front of the frame's ramp, and those rounds will feed well. Full Metal Jacketed ball rounds feed over that rough joint much easier, but if you bought this gun either for self defense (with good hollowpoints) or for Wild Bunch shooting (with lead bullets), you can (or will have to) do much better with a tuned up ramp. It is unfortunate that MANY of the low end 1911 copies are not fitted right at the factory for ANYTHING but FMJ (ball) ammo, but it's a fact of life. If ALL 1911s failed to feed hollowpoint ammo, they would be lemons. Which the 1911 certainly is NOT.

 

Make sure you use good quality magazines, too. McCormick Shooting Star mags will do good by your gun.

 

Good luck, GJ

[ShadowCatcher]

Recently bought one of the Armscor 1911s that Cimarron is selling. I've only tried hollow points in it so far, and they won't feed. Rather than pushing up and into the chamber from the clip, the bullet's nose jams into the forward inside surface of the grip just below the rear of the chamber. I've tried loading with several different clips, including the two that came with the gun, and no joy. Is this a common problem with these bullets, or is it the gun?

Assuming you're using factory loaded hollow point ammo and you've tried using several different high quality magazines,

and still get this problem, you have a feed ramp or barrel throat "problem".

 

The classic solutions include polishing the feed ramp to get better bullet feed, and also throating the barrel to open

up the bottom of the barrel to accept hollow point ammo.

 

It's true that there are those who think the only thing you should use is the 230 gr. FMJ, or that the only thing you need

is the 230 gr. FMJ, but most competent gunsmiths can get the gun to feed almost anything you'd care to put through it.

 

There are also a lot of folks who think this is a good thing - a 1911 should be able to feed almost any good ammo, given good magazines,

but if you don't want to make it that little bit better, and are willing to settle for less, the 230 gr. FMJ is not a bad choice.

 

Personally - any .45 1911 I've ever owned (and that's been a few over the last 40 years) has fed almost anything I could find in

any store in the lower 48, and if it didn't - it got fixed. It has to feed a 200 LSWC (H&G 68) loaded to C.O.L. 1.250, or Hydra Shoks,

or it gets fixed, minimum. Everything else is negotiable . . . . .

 

YMMV, as may your bank account or interest . ..

 

Shadow Catcher

[Rafe Conager SASS #56958]

like Joe said your hollow points are sticking on the feed ramp! round nose lead or fmj should have no problems, but if you are going to use hollow points you will need to polish your feed ramp, you can do it yourself or have your gunsmith polish it for about $25-50. I had my kimber polished since it is my home defence pistol, my wild-bunch/truck Springfield does not, no need

Rafe

[Badlands Beady]

Thanks, Pards. The hollow points were on sale, cheaper than the jackets, otherwise... I'll put them away for later and switch over. Soon as I get some money sitting idle, I'll take the gun in for some work.

[Irish Tom]

BB.

First off, let me say, I think you have a great gun. I own two of them. A full size GI model and the compact. In the full size, I only shoot jacketed ball or 230gr lead round ball and it goes bang every time. I was lucky with the compact, after about 100 rounds of hard ball ammo, I started shooting Remington Golden Sabre ammo and it has never missed a beat. A little tweaking by a good Smith should fix your problem. Good luck and good shooting.

 

Irish Tom.

[Seldom Seen #16162]

First and foremost your gun needs to be broke in. I would shoot at least 500 rounds of FMJ through it. After they are feeding fine I would retry hollowpoints. If they still are still having feeding problems then consider polishing the feedramp.

[Cholla Bob]

One more in favor of slicking up the feed ramp.

 

I'm a third generation 1911 user my grandfather told me "the first thing you got to do is slick that feed ramp if you want it to feed good"

[Shooting Bull]

I'd like to add a word of caution to the "polish the feed ramp" suggestion. Yeah, this MAY help cure some feeding problems but, it can just as easily cause more. There are a lot of critical angles in the 1911, mess with even one of them and you could end up owning a very expensive paperweight. It's been my experience that just polishing the feed ramps hasn't "cured" any feeding problems. It's just smoothed out the feeding of ammo the gun already accepts. That being said, if you still want to try polishing your feed ramp go ahead but, be EXTREMELY careful not to change the angle of it. Even better, take the gun to a verified 1911 expert and get him to tune the gun so that it'll feed the ammo you want. With the understanding that after that's done, it might not feed anything else.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

I'd like to add a word of caution to the "polish the feed ramp" suggestion. Yeah, this MAY help cure some feeding problems but, it can just as easily cause more. There are a lot of critical angles in the 1911, mess with even one of them and you could end up owning a very expensive paperweight. It's been my experience that just polishing the feed ramps hasn't "cured" any feeding problems. It's just smoothed out the feeding of ammo the gun already accepts. That being said, if you still want to try polishing your feed ramp go ahead but, be EXTREMELY careful not to change the angle of it. Even better, take the gun to a verified 1911 expert and get him to tune the gun so that it'll feed the ammo you want. With the understanding that after that's done, it might not feed anything else.

 

Well, with all respect, PS,

Correcting the feed ramp and barrel throating will make ALL ammo feed better, if the gunsmith knows what he is doing. It is a misconception that getting the feed-ramp-to-barrel-fit straightened out will cause feeding problems with other types of ammo.

 

Now, if the smith (or you) are tinkering with springs and such to get a lower POWER load to feed (like bullseye shooters do), THEN you can really expect to limit the gun to working with that particular power level of ammo. But feeding of various bullet shapes, and a variety of OALs of cartridges, should just be improved by correct attention paid to the frame-to-barrel fit.

 

Good luck, GJ

[Happy Jack, SASS #20451]

I won't get into this argument too far, but a word of CAUTION: The feed ramp in the frame must NEVER be cut back to meet the chamber throat. There has to be at least .030" of the frame between the frame ramp and the barrel throat. Many "shade tree" pistolsmiths have ruined good 1911 frames by mating the feed ramp and the barrel throat. Don't do it!! Leave ramp polishing and barrel throating and ramping to a KNOWLEDGEABLE 1911 smith. Not just someone who claims to be a gunsmith.

[Iron Pony]

Badlands just to help you out I took my WWII issue 1911 out to the range today for testing, always a good excuse to shoot a literal old warhorse. With the Missouri Bullet Company 200 grain XD bullet and a midrange load of Bullseye powder this gun ran perfectly and even with the tiny combat sites knocked down 8" plates at the 10 yard line no problem.

 

The interesting thing about this gun is that the first time I had long access to it I took it to a good gunsmith to check over before heading to the range. This gun came down to me from a great uncle who retired as a 2 star after service in WWII. The gun appeared stock outside but he asked who had worked on it before. The feed ramp and chamber throat had been polished along with sear, trigger bow and disconnector as well. Nothing major but ready for fighting. I have shot everything in this gun from semi-wadcutters, fmj ball and hollow points with no issues.

 

Shoot it in with ball or a lead equivalent then see what happens when you try to feed it the JHPs again.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

BB, standard advice you'd get even from a manufacturer is, if it feeds 230 grain GI ball (FMJ) then it ain't broke. If it sometimes chokes on ball, shoot a few boxes through it and see if it gets better. THEN worry about anything else ya wanna make it do. There ARE lead bullets out there designed to act like GI ball in a 1911, and will shoot well out of a pistol that shoots ball ok.

[DOCBRAZOS, SASS#18033L]

1911's need bullets in the cases to feed? Every 1911 I have has been properly tuned and will feed a magazine full of resized case's.

Most1911's come from the factory set up for hard ball and if the owner wants' it to shoot sometin' else it must be proberly tuned.

[Dubious Don #56333]

Current manufactured guns generally come with a throated ramp already. Did 1911's from 20 years ago need work in this area? Sometimes. I have several from that era with the stingy little ramps and they feed anything that goes in the magazines. Do you always have to polish/throat/reprofile the feed ramp? Bunk.

 

Without seeing your pistol there's no way to tell what the issue is but typically, more or less in order are the likely culprits for when a round, of whatever profile, stubs on the feed ramp in a nose down attitude.

 

Magazine lips spread, bent, worn or of an older (or military style some don't like anything but hardball round nose) = try a different magazine

 

Magazine spring weak = replace the spring/magazine

 

Your gun doesn't like the bullet profile (for whatever reason) = try different ammo

 

Feed ramp incorrectly profiled. Too steep, narrow, rough, feed ramp on barrel doesn't mate to frame, there are a NUMBER of dimensions that need to be checked. Simply taking a dremel and buzzing away at the ramp until its shiny or, until it works (or not, usually not) is a good way to ruin the frame and/or barrel. Go to Brownells. Jerry Kuhnhausen book on 1911's I and II. good information but remember, an inexperienced person + book + dremel = How a lot of gunsmiths make money.

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

OP has already told us he has tried several good brands of new magazines, from what I read. These should all have a pretty fresh mag spring in them. He really needs to be able to run more than just hardball through the gun. Ergo, he needs to check with a good 1911 smith to see if the barrel throat is the culprit, especially since he has one of the Philippines built 1911s. Not once on these responses has he been told to just grind away himself with a dremel. What's all the drama about, anyway?

 

Good grief, GJ

[Badlands Beady]

Well, bought a box of RN copper, last night. They don't feed, either. So, two kinds of ammo and 4 different brands of new mags, and no-go. Since everything I ever tried to make in shop class came out looking like an ashtray, I'm going to start looking for a 1911 'smith. A friend has already pointed me toward a couple of "locals."

[Seldom Seen #16162]

I don't know what you mean by "RN copper", whether you are using factory or reloads nor do you mention how much experience you have shooting 1911 pattern pistols. Improper grip such as limp wristing can cause failures to feed. Also you do not mention how many rounds you have fired through your gun so far. I still maintain that you should shoot at least 500 rounds before during any gunsmithing to it.

[Go West]

I bought one of the RIA guns and mine needed a breakin period to shoot a 200 gr SWC bullet. When new I would have maybe 3 rounds not feed per clip and as I kept at it, they started to feed better with fewer failures to feed. I'd suggest getting some cheap Sellier & Bellot or Wolf ammo and blaze away. You might be surprised what this will do for your gun.

[Badlands Beady]

I don't know what you mean by "RN copper", whether you are using factory or reloads nor do you mention how much experience you have shooting 1911 pattern pistols. Improper grip such as limp wristing can cause failures to feed. Also you do not mention how many rounds you have fired through your gun so far. I still maintain that you should shoot at least 500 rounds before during any gunsmithing to it.

 

Round-nose copper. Factory.

 

It's been some years since I shot a 1911 at all regularly, but there's not a lot to it. At least, not for the ones I've owned before.

 

I don't know what you mean by limp wristing. I pull the slide back until it reaches the stop, then let go. The bullet right-angles into the "ramp" and stops dead.

 

I haven't fired any rounds through it because I can't get it to feed. How can I put 500 rounds through it if it won't feed?

[Manatee]

The round may not be slipping under the extractor like it should. Search "1911 extractor problems, tuning" on the net and you'll probably find some pics along with the instructions.

 

I wouldn't come to a cowboy board for 1911 advice. They barely know how to shoot them.

[Rex M Rugers #6621]

BB , if you haven't fired it yet , what are the chances of taking it back to where you bought it , and exchange for one that works?? Or at least full refund.

Good luck , Rex

[Garrison Joe, SASS #60708]

BB - Also have the 'smith check extractor tension, as Manatee alluded to. Here's a problem much like yours, in a new Wilson 1911, where the extractor was not "tensioned" properly from the factory (in other words, it was bent too much and put so much pressure on the rim that the rim of the cartridge could not slip under the hook of the extractor. The shape of the hook at the end of the extractor may also be part of a problem with this kind of failure.

 

http://forum.1911for...d.php?p=2236663

 

Good luck with the piece, I know you will like it when you get it running well. GJ

[Mink Shoals Bandit, #49388]

Good advice from Manatee, after reading your post where it will not feed factory hard ball ammo more than likely it is an extractor problem. Some here have said the 1911 is a simple mechanism is true to some degree, but a lot has to happen at the right time in the millisecond it takes to cycle a round. More than I can go into here. I am no expert or ace tuner but I know the basics of what makes them function reliably. Here's some good reading on the subject.

 

http://how-i-did-it.org/1911-project/fed_up.html

 

Also I am not one that believes you need to fire 500 rounds before the pistol becomes reliable,it should fire factory hard ball ammo all day right out of the box. When you get into handloads and lead bullets most will require some adjustments and tweaking to be dependable and reliable. Just my opinion though, as most said there is no substitute for a good 1911 tuner to adjust the pistol to your ammo and intended use...............Mink..........

[Seldom Seen #16162]

B.B.,

 

Semi-auto handguns need to recoil something solid to for slide to move with enough velocity to eject and feed the next round. This is done by locking your elbow and arm of your shooting arm. Revolver shooters often have problems with this as we can get away with shooting with a more relaxed grip.

 

Ok, you have good ammo and the proper shooting grip. The next and most likely all along cause is a bad magazine. That is why most auto shooters have more than one magazine. The easiest way to check this is to simply try another magazine. If you don't have one or can't borrow one I would call the factory and ask them to send you a new one. If you gun works VILOA! If not you now have two magazines which you need anyway.

 

Go for the easy and cheap fixes first. There are too many so-called gunsmiths who don't have clue how to repair a 1911.

[Griff]

Another factor may just be the way you're releasing the slide. One method for loading is to slap in a magazine and pull down on the slide release. There's absolutely no reason to ease the slide down... why fight that nice, helpful spring? You ain't gonna break anything... and if you do, it was going to break as soon as you fired it! On my carry gun, I drop one round in the chamber, release the slide with my thumb, then flip up the safety and slap in a full mag. There ain't anything dainty about a 1911. There's nothing you're going to hurt by droppin' the slide release holdin' it one handed. After droppin' one in the chamber, flippin' up the safety and puttin in a mag, all you have to do is flip down the safety and fire that first round. I've never locked my elbow, but if you let the recoil flip up your hand at the wrist, you're "limp wristin'" in, and it'll fail to feed, sooner or later. I've always had some bend in my elbow after firing a .45 1911 from the recoil, but it is "managed".

 

Then, if the second doesn't feed, you either have a magazine problem, or yes, it's your ammo. 99% of the time it'll be a magazine. Let another 1911 shooter try it. I had a shooter ask me once what was wrong with his, he couldn't seem to hit a 16" round plate at 10 yards. I picked up his gun and real careful like put 7 rounds in a nice little circle dern near dead center in that target. Like most folks new to the 1911, he was holding it like a revolver.

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Well, Griff you are putting a big strain on the extractor by loading a single round in the chamber and letting the slide down on it. That method causes the extractor to "contort" around the rim in a way it is not designed to do. All rounds should be fed into the chamber from the magazine. After the first round is chambered the way it was designed to do -- from the mag -- then you can drop the mag and top it off if desired.

 

Also I never use the slide release in normal operation. To me the slide release is for emergency use only, for times when you only have one good hand or arm available. For normal operations, insert the mag, grasp the slide serrations (that's what they are there for)and shove briskly forward with the gun in the strong hand whilst "racking" the slide back with the off hand. Let go of the slide at the end of travel and round one gets chambered as the slide slams home. Dat's da way I does it. Habitually and continually using the slide release puts too much stress on too many parts I do believe. YMMV.

[ShadowCatcher]

Well, Griff you are putting a big strain on the extractor by loading a single round in the chamber and letting the slide down on it. That method causes the extractor to "contort" around the rim in a way it is not designed to do. All rounds should be fed into the chamber from the magazine. After the first round is chambered the way it was designed to do -- from the mag -- then you can drop the mag and top it off if desired.

 

Also I never use the slide release in normal operation. To me the slide release is for emergency use only, for times when you only have one good hand or arm available. For normal operations, insert the mag, grasp the slide serrations (that's what they are there for)and shove briskly forward with the gun in the strong hand whilst "racking" the slide back with the off hand. Let go of the slide at the end of travel and round one gets chambered as the slide slams home. Dat's da way I does it. Habitually and continually using the slide release puts too much stress on too many parts I do believe. YMMV.

So . . The slide release - called that by the people who design and manufacture the gun, is not to be used to release the slide???

 

I'd like to understand how all those gun designers and manufacturers screwed that one up so badly?

 

We all have habits, and some are based on what someone else taught us once - a long time a go in a galaxy far away, and some we just invent as we go, but

why tell people not to use the thing the way it was designed to be used?

 

I know Mas used to teach the slingshot method, as did other gun schools, 20 years ago, but they've mostly dropped that technique . . . .

 

Not trying to pick a fight - I just wonder where all these special ways to use a 100 year old gun came from . . .

 

Shadow Catcher

[Manatee]

Like I said, never come to a cowboy board for 1911 advice.....

 

Lone Dog has it right: NEVER put a round in the chamber and drop the slide! The rounds are made to be fed from the magazine and slide up under the extractor. It won't hurt the gun to load a mag and hit the slide release (you'll put a little more wear on the slide and release by doing so...but it's your gun), but don't load a round in the chamber and drop the slide.