Practice---how often, how long and how?

[Bart Solo]

Most of us don't have berms in our backyards so live fire practice is a little difficult. We rarely have a chance to shoot between matches. That means a lot of dry fire practice. How often do you practice and what do you do to practice? Do you have little dots on the wall as Doc Shapiro suggests and spend a lot of time focusing on your sight placement. Does your practice focus on moving from gun to gun? How long do you practice? Do you break the steps down and practice small steps repeatedly or do you plan a full series of moves? For example, if you watch the Longhunter tips he gives a lot of great advice concerning various bite sized motions. Do you practice one of those moves over and over again during a session, or do you try to incorporate them as you simulate an entire stage?

 

Sorry for all the questions, but I am really interested in finding out how people practice. How do people improve between matches?

[Utah Bob #35998]

I have my own range. I shoot on it for fun. Sometimes with CAs guns, sometimes not.

I don't practice shooting stages at all. Or transitions.

I just bang away.

[Bart Solo]

I have my own range. I shoot on it for fun. Sometimes with CAs guns, sometimes not.

I don't practice shooting stages at all. Or transitions.

I just bang away.

 

Your own range. You are one lucky man.

[Driftwood Johnson, SASS #38283]

Howdy

 

I am a very serious Trap shooter. I practice once or twice every week, often going through 10 boxes of shells in a week.

 

I am just in CAS for fun. I never practice.

[Buckshot Frank]

I try to dry fire practice about once a week; usually when I get tired of reloading. My practice consists of drawing and firing both pistols at pictures on the wall (alternating targets for 5 shots). When my thumb gets tired of cocking the pistol, I only fire one shot with each pistol and just work on my trasitions. I'll then usually put my pistols up, and dry fire the rifle for a few 10-shot strings. I rarely practice with the shotgun, but when I do I practice picking it up off of a stool, loading, firing twice, unloading, and reloading.

 

I wish that I had a place to practice live fire, but none of the ranges around here will let you draw from holsters so the practice would be pointless.

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

Being self employed I dry fire mostly. Due to a medical condition I have not practiced since March 18th. Just started up again last Wednesday.

 

I have little round magnets from the hobby store that I painted different colors stuck on anything metal in my man cave. A table, my guns, leather and voila' instant range.

Week one I practice one gun each night for about an hour. I change guns each night. Draw from leather, pick up from table, hands flat on table, hands on hat, start with gun in hand etc.

 

The following week I practice nothing but transitions for an hour each night. I mix up the transitions but practice the same order over and over on that night,

example Rifle - Pistol - Pistol - Shotgun. Next night Pistol - Pistol - Shotgun - Rifle, Next night Shotgun - Rifle - Pistol - Pistol.

My variation in each night is sometimes the gun starts on the table, sometimes in leather, sometimes in hand.

 

I try to shoot on the weekends so that counts as my practice for that day.

If there is a bigger match coming up I will live fire about 500 rounds each week for about a month in advance, in addition to my matches and dry firing.

If I had the money to buy ammo and components my live fire would increase a lot. being broke is a pain ain't it?

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

[BrimstoneJerome]

Bart, have you ever played a sport, like football, basketball, and such? In all the sports I've played all through college all my practices have been a mix of pieces and sytems. As a defensive line player we would practice, our steps, get offs, hand placement and tackling, all apart of the the system of a speed rush to pressure the quarterback. All these pieces were done to refine our system and are crucial toward obtaining the goal of a sack, fumble or pick and hopefully a win. I parallel my cowboy practices to my football practices, working on the pieces and putting them altogether in an effective system. If I'm practicing my pistols, I work on all the different pieces: stance, alignment, draw, grip, sight picture, action, holster, draw and repeat. Working, (and I use working loosely because none of this work to me I enjoy every bit of it), to improve on the pieces and put them together in an effective system, is from my experience good practice. This kind of practice works well for me, others maybe prefer different methods, this is just how I prepare to forget everything when the buzzer goes off.

 

Best brim.

[U B Mountain #40498]

PRACTICE ???

We don't need NO stinking PRACTICE!!!

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

I try to dry fire practice about once a week; usually when I get tired of reloading. My practice consists of drawing and firing both pistols at pictures on the wall (alternating targets for 5 shots). When my thumb gets tired of cocking the pistol, I only fire one shot with each pistol and just work on my trasitions. I'll then usually put my pistols up, and dry fire the rifle for a few 10-shot strings. I rarely practice with the shotgun, but when I do I practice picking it up off of a stool, loading, firing twice, unloading, and reloading.

 

I wish that I had a place to practice live fire, but none of the ranges around here will let you draw from holsters so the practice would be pointless.

 

I am pretty sure you have read or heard of Doc Shapiros excellent work "Breaking the shot". As part of ones growth as a CAS participant, might I also suggest Lanny Bassham's (sp) audio discs "Mental Management for Shooters" available from Evil Roy or the companion book "With winning in mind". While Lanny is a Gold medal olympian in rifle shooting rather than CAS, the information translates well to CAS. Sooner or later all of us need to work on the mental aspects of the game and these are both excellent guides. One of the things Lanny stresses is that often a single dry fire practice over the course of a week can be counterproductive as you may (unknowingly) introduce a less efficient habit into your skill set and not notice the problem because there is no followup practice to identify or correct the issue. There is a fine line between to little and to much practice as well but he does a better job of talking about it than I.

Noticing some of your scores (very nice BTW! ) you have a bright future ahead so anything that might give you an advantage would be worth checking out. Just a thought.

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

[Doc Shapiro]

Hands down, the best book for mental training is Brian Enos' book "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals." Available on his web site.

 

That said, when I was practicing, much of my time was spent on transitions and shotgun. I'd have shotgun snapcaps in my belt, leather and guns out all day. Every time I walked by, I'd put it all on, spend about 10 minutes working on it, and put it down. Probably did it 5 or 6 times a day, every day. I also spent time cycling actions of pistol and rifle as fast as I could in order to try to build hand speed. Also spent some time on fundamentals. Every day. 6 days a week.

 

Every few weeks, I'd video tape a practice session to see what I was doing and figure out what I could do to be more efficient. This also gave me a chance to find out if I was doing anything incorrectly.

[Grizzly Dave]

My practice schedule is about like Gateway Kids, plus I run 5 miles a day and do wind sprints every other day and weightlifting three times a week. In addition I work with a mental coach on memory and logic.

 

:lol: :lol:

 

OK, I don't really do any of that, once in a blue moon and I'll work on one thing or another like shotgun loading and handling or transitions, but mostly I just shoot my mouth off over in the saloon.

 

Grizz

[Gateway Kid SASS# 70038 Life]

My practice schedule is about like Gateway Kids, plus I run 5 miles a day and do wind sprints every other day and weightlifting three times a week. In addition I work with a mental coach on memory and logic. :lol: :lol:

 

OK, I don't really do any of that, once in a blue moon and I'll work on one thing or another like shotgun loading and handling or transitions, but mostly I just shoot my mouth off over in the saloon.

 

Grizz

 

I knew there must be some reason I can't keep up with ya!!! Dang gamer anyway!!

 

Regards

 

 

Gateway Kid

 

Just found out something else, there is a limit to how many emoticons you can have in the post. Learn something new everyday!

[Jack Houston # 35508]

There's that "P Word" again

[Buckshot Frank]

My practice schedule is about like Gateway Kids, plus I run 5 miles a day and do wind sprints every other day and weightlifting three times a week. In addition I work with a mental coach on memory and logic.

 

:lol: :lol:

 

OK, I don't really do any of that, once in a blue moon and I'll work on one thing or another like shotgun loading and handling or transitions, but mostly I just shoot my mouth off over in the saloon.

 

Grizz

 

Now that is funny! I nominate this as post of the year.

[Buckshot Frank]

Hands down, the best book for mental training is Brian Enos' book "Practical Shooting, Beyond Fundamentals." Available on his web site.

 

 

I've read Enos' book, but I'll admit that a lot of his concepts were above my head. He is big on calling your shot, which seems like a super-human power to me. I have been shooting a lot of different guns for a long time, and I don't think that I have ever been able to call my shot. I can see where it would be a great skill to have, but I don't have it. I'm just a trigger puller...

 

I think that I will read the book again now that I am involved in CAS to see if I can get anything out of it.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

I am too ADHD to REALLY practice. Sure, once in a while I get fired up and work on something a little, but consistently? Nope. I DO find that mental imagery can be of great help when actual practice is impossible. Once you know the fundamentals, your brain knows what you wanna do, so mental rehersal helps. This is true of lots of things, casting a fly rod, a golf swing, and yes, shooting. "Calling the shot" is a matter of concentration, and yes it is useful. I've called flyers when shooting groups (in the days before CAS), knowing where an errant shot went even before the muzzle has recovered from recoil.... It's part of your feedback loop, knowing what you did wrong is as important as knowing when yer doing it right.

 

Wanna learn to "call shots" or to really concentrate when shooting? Get yerself a big ole block of wood, a stump or a length of 4X4 works, and drive a bunch of 16 or 20 penny nails into it with a hammer. Note how when ya concentrate on exactly the middle of the nail head, exactly how hard to swing the hammer, pretty soon ya get a consistent drive that sinks a nail in the same number of strokes, dead straight, with no "oops" swings. THAT is exactly the kinda concentration ya need for shooting consistently as well. The act of REALLY paying attention is a teachable skill.

[JD Trampas, SASS # 55781]

I don't practice or even dry fire, could be why I finish last, oh well, sure have doing it and to me that is what matters, having FUN

 

 

All for now JD Trampas

[Jimmy Reb, SASS #54804]

Who's got the time?????????????

[Doc Shapiro]

I've read Enos' book, but I'll admit that a lot of his concepts were above my head. He is big on calling your shot, which seems like a super-human power to me. I have been shooting a lot of different guns for a long time, and I don't think that I have ever been able to call my shot. I can see where it would be a great skill to have, but I don't have it. I'm just a trigger puller...

 

I think that I will read the book again now that I am involved in CAS to see if I can get anything out of it.

 

 

 

Everytime I read that book I get more out of it. I don't think there are many in a position to be able to learn all there is from that book in one sitting. Many of the concepts presented are reliant on other concepts presented. It's a gradual process that proceeds in fits and starts with lots of plateau's.

 

As for calling your shots, you do need to remove the blink reflex and be able to keep your eyes open. You need to know exactly where your sights were lined up at the moment the bullet left the barrel (which is not the same moment as the "bang" or as the trigger pull). You need to be aware of what's going on. Easy to say, hard to learn. Requires lots of range time. But awareness is the key.

 

There is a quick lesson plan to becoming a highly skilled shooter. Go fire half a million rounds and then come see me to work out the kinks.

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

Doc's about got it. I've heard the practice range at Jerry Miculek's house is paved with spent primers.

[Bart Solo]

I ordered Enos's book.

 

One thing people who have ready access to a range need to keep in mind is that the rest of us aren't so lucky. My local range gets upset if you pull a trigger more than once every three seconds. No cowboy shooting there. The only times I can actually shoot for speed are during the regular shoots and the occasional practice sessions at Powder Creek more than 35 miles each way. Right now I am trying to work on my game for Prince of Pistoleers next month. I have no hope of winning anything, but I do want to do my best. I figure I owe that to the other competitors.

[Guest Tennessee Stud, SASS# 43634 Life]

Every few days... I practice fetchin' my bullet from my shirt pocket without fumblin' it. It gets perty gruellin' sometimes.

 

ts

[Three Fingered Fred 59408]

**

[Doc Shapiro]

Ack, never mind. That didn't need to be said.

[evil dogooder]

Since I'm just starting I normally practice dry firing/shotgun reloads for about an hour every night. When I get a rifle that will be added too.

 

I have fired over half a million rounds but not for this sport. I found I have to relearn how to shoot. I can put all my shots in a close group semi fast or be slow and make them all touch.... I'm trying to learn 16" accuracy instead of moa accuracy. Hoping to speed up a lot.... I have no right to be this slow....

Remember its all muscle memory.... at the range we shoot if you have to knowingly look at your sights on your pistol you're too slow. It should be instinct and an subconcious act

Just my thoughts. Take it as a grain of salt I'm new too and these are just my observations

 

 

Respectfully

Evil......slower than molasses in a minnesota winter.......dogooder

[J-BAR #18287]

Get Evil Roy's DVD's.

 

Do what he says.

[Red River Ray SASS#33254]

Since I'm just starting I normally practice dry firing/shotgun reloads for about an hour every night. When I get a rifle that will be added too.

 

I have fired over half a million rounds but not for this sport. I found I have to relearn how to shoot. I can put all my shots in a close group semi fast or be slow and make them all touch.... I'm trying to learn 16" accuracy instead of moa accuracy. Hoping to speed up a lot.... I have no right to be this slow....

Remember its all muscle memory.... at the range we shoot if you have to knowingly look at your sights on your pistol you're too slow. It should be instinct and an subconcious act

Just my thoughts. Take it as a grain of salt I'm new too and these are just my observations

 

 

Respectfully

Evil......slower than molasses in a minnesota winter.......dogooder

 

Respectfully,

 

Start at Cowboy port arms,8 rifle targets at about 20 yards or so 16x16. Sweep all 8 come back shoot #4 an #1. Rifle down pick up shotgun shoot 2 down, leave SG on table, move about 20 feet to tha right, pistol targets are 6-9 yds 16x16. Shoot #1 an #4 then sweep all eight. Do this in a 12 sec time frame and you still haft ta see your sights! Or you'll turn it into a 17 sec time or worse!

 

 

RRR BTW that stage is called ALL 4 1 an 1 4 ALL. I think was written by tha great CHAIR O KEY BIGDOG

[evil dogooder]

Respectfully,

 

Start at Cowboy port arms,8 rifle targets at about 20 yards or so 16x16. Sweep all 8 come back shoot #4 an #1. Rifle down pick up shotgun shoot 2 down, leave SG on table, move about 20 feet to tha right, pistol targets are 6-9 yds 16x16. Shoot #1 an #4 then sweep all eight. Do this in a 12 sec time frame and you still haft ta see your sights! Or you'll turn it into a 17 sec time or worse!

 

 

RRR BTW that stage is called ALL 4 1 an 1 4 ALL. I think was written by tha great CHAIR O KEY BIGDOG

 

 

 

 

Sorry I really messed up the wording in that one. What I ment was this.... if before you squeeze the trigger your thought patters go

 

See big metal thingy

Pull revolver

Line up rear sight with metal thingy

Raise/lower/shift front sight to line up with rear sight and. Metal thingy

Depress trigger.

 

If you need to do that every time you will never shoot a twelve second split. The hesitation it takes to do so will cost too much time.

I was intending to say you need to practice enough so your body can do all of that without you consciously telling it to. I did not mean to say never use your sights.

 

 

This is just what works for me personally.... every shooter is different.

If I'm shooting trap/skeet or bird hunting I just look at the bird and allow my body to bring the gun into position. More often than not i hit. If I look at the sights I miss.

But I am different than most. I've been teaching my mother and wife to shoot.....some things I don't even think about doing anymore I've just done it enough that it just happens. To them they don't understand how I do it and honestly some things I can't explain because I don't even realize I do it.

 

I look at the metal targets not what's in my hand. But to be honest I did miss two pistol targets in my first match. Six stages. using borrowed guns. Yes I was very slow.

 

Anyway that's off topic all I was trying to say was you need to practice enough to train your muscles if you want to be fast at anything. Shooting or non shooting. I'm sorry for the confusion it was totally my fault. Please forgive me for not wording it well.

 

Respectfully

 

Evil dogooder

[Billy Boots, # 20282 LTG-Regulator]

Respectfully,

 

Start at Cowboy port arms,8 rifle targets at about 20 yards or so 16x16. Sweep all 8 come back shoot #4 an #1. Rifle down pick up shotgun shoot 2 down, leave SG on table, move about 20 feet to tha right, pistol targets are 6-9 yds 16x16. Shoot #1 an #4 then sweep all eight. Do this in a 12 sec time frame and you still haft ta see your sights! Or you'll turn it into a 17 sec time or worse!

 

 

RRR BTW that stage is called ALL 4 1 an 1 4 ALL. I think was written by tha great CHAIR O KEY BIGDOG

 

RRR,

 

Is that 12 seconds after downing shotgun...let's see, just how long will it take me to move that 20 feet downrange. Heck, make that from time I get to pistol targets cause by the time I catch my breath and shoot them two revolvers I'll need the 12 seconds. ha, ha

 

Seriously, unless targets are pretty dern big and in the 6' or less range, I, too, believe one needs to see front sights. At least that is my belief and advice if instructing. Actually, figure I am looking for sights somewhat even in the close and big example.

 

I just plain like to shoot and I am fortunate to have a range on my own property complete with numerous targets of different sizes and distances. You might say I had somewhat of a testing grounds for many of HD targets back when he was coming up with all sorts of ideas. As to serious practice, during CAS season that's usually what I devote my time at then come elk hunting time I spend time with the 454 shooting different ranges/postions. Come a couple of weeks before a big CAS shoot I hit the range much harder shooting different scenerios and transition/shooting drills. In this time period I will dry fire most every night, normally maybe not an hour, but more until my 65+ year old thumbs start feeling crampy and uncomfortable. ( In dry firing at the "man cave" I do use inch squares and some cleaning patches for "targets" and a table for transition work. Dummy rounds are essential but don't get a live shotgun round in the mix....been there done that, not pretty.) Not sure one hardly ever gets really enough practice unless they can shoot real times matches weekly and range time inbetween....but then sometimes you might hear someone say they practiced to much.

[Captain Bill Burt]

I print out old stages, or upcoming ones, from the local clubs where I shoot and practice them in my bedroom which fortunately is fairly large.

 

I have paper plates I tape to the wall and a couple of small collapsible tables. I set up the targets and tables, stage the weapons, then execute the stages over and over until I'm satisfied with my performance.

[ShadowCatcher]

My practice schedule is about like Gateway Kids, plus I run 5 miles a day and do wind sprints every other day and weightlifting three times a week. In addition I work with a mental coach on memory and logic.

 

:lol: :lol:

 

OK, I don't really do any of that, once in a blue moon and I'll work on one thing or another like shotgun loading and handling or transitions, but mostly I just shoot my mouth off over in the saloon.

 

Grizz

for a minute there I was thinking I had to start calling you Doc "Grizzly Dave" Savage . . . .

 

SC

[Adirondack Jack, SASS #53440]

As to "seeing the sights", there's "seeing" and there's "AIMING". I started out aiming, which is slow. Eventually I learned how close is minute of steel at CAS range, and how crappy the sight picture can look and still get a "ding" out of it. Yes, unlearning paper punching habits is not easy, and requires burning some powder while consciously NOT doing the old "minute of angle" deal.

 

it takes a durn good bunch of DRAWING the pistol while consciously getting the proper grip to even begin to ignore the sights. A slight bit of screwed up draw, missing your "master grip" by a fraction of an inch, and you damned better be using sights.

 

But with a practiced master grip and much practice shooting WITH sights, eventually you can forgo the sights at CAS range and most often get away with it. I shot a whole regional last year without looking for the sights and had not a single pistol miss. I only decided to give it a try after watching my pard, shooting BP duelist, blaze away while obviously not able to see the targets on the first stage. I shoot duelist also, but was shooting smokeless.

 

So now I'm on to my next developmental challenge. I'm gonna shoot this whole year OUTLAW duelist. (rifle is shot using sights, but shotgun and pistol from the hip.) I find the SG harder than the pistol when shot from the hip. BUT it can go to crumbs real bad and scores suffer... Like any challenge, it ain't fer sissies

 

FWIW I had the first inkling I might be halfway good at "outlaw" when i remembered a time a few years ago, I was plinking at a woods range with a .22 semi-auto pistol, and a snake surpized me. To say me and snakes aren't friends would an understatement. I had the pistol in my hand, and as the snake tried to retreat, I popped two rounds at him, just point and shoot, no sights, maybe had the gun at belt level. I hit the snake twice. Snakes ain't that durn big when stretched out crawling.....

[Lone Dog, SASS #20401]

Nope. Never. And my scores reflect it.

 

But I am in this game for fun. Practice is more like work. The 3 or 4 matches a month I shoot is my practice. More power to those that enjoy practicing or are driven to try to win. But I don't mind not being a top shooter, too old and stove up anyway. Somebody's gotta populate the middle of the pack (or lower)...

[Noz]

I print out old stages, or upcoming ones, from the local clubs where I shoot and practice them in my bedroom which fortunately is fairly large.

 

I have paper plates I tape to the wall and a couple of small collapsible tables. I set up the targets and tables, stage the weapons, then execute the stages over and over until I'm satisfied with my performance.

 

Not married, are ya!

[Deuce Stevens SASS#55996]

I'm in the game for fun as well, and part of that fun is being comepetative and getting the most out of my ability. I practice 2-3 times a month live fire, minimum 15 min. a day dry fire and as many monthies I can shoot every month, usually 2-3.